Bass Pro Tour Live kick off

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

Has anyone run the numbers to see how a 5 best limit would stack the competitors?

Give @Team9nine a little bit he's crunching the numbers. I do know the avg. Bass weight is on par with the other tours.

[A-Jay]

17 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Give @Team9nine a little bit he's crunching the numbers. I do know the avg. Bass weight is on par with the other tours.

Seems like it's going to be lower.

But does it matter ?  Is that what these derbies are about ?

Of course they could bump up the 'score-able' bass requirements or make some stipulation where a 2 or 3 pound fish was required every period before any smaller or 1 lb fish could count. 

Can't decide if that would make it any 'better' though.

I did enjoy this one either way - and J Lee is a freak !

A-Jay

 

 

[J Francho]

21 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

I do know the avg. Bass weight is on par with the other tours. 

Is that true?  Average bass weight would be based on each angler's top five in other tours, not average bass caught.

1 minute ago, A-Jay said:

Of course they could bump up the 'score-able' bass requirements or make some stipulation where a 2 or 3 pound fish was required every period before any smaller or 1 lb fish could count.

Or just count the top five, but I guess that isn't what this all about.

[Team9nine]

Might be a while to see final numbers, if they become available. I've pulled it for a lot of the older events, but I do have first round numbers (Day 1 and Day 1, Group A & B to compare:

 

Here's what the top 10 in each group would look like if anglers were credited only with the weight of their best five fish:

 

GROUP A
1. Randall Tharp: 22-09
2. Zack Birge: 21-09
3. Ish Monroe: 21-08
4. Ott DeFoe: 18-11
5. Mark Daniels Jr.: 16-12
6. Randy Howell: 16-08
7. Gerald Spohrer: 16-01
8. Takahiro Omori: 15-08
9. Matt Lee: 14-12
10. Dave Lefebre: 14-00

 

Day 1 Actual Standings Group A

1. Randy Howell -- 26, 49-12
2. Ish Monroe -- 15, 40-13
3. Zack Birge -- 15, 36-09
4. Gerald Spohrer -- 17, 35-04
5. Ott DeFoe -- 14, 34-14
6. Brandon Coulter -- 17, 32-05
7. Randall Tharp -- 9, 28-11
8. Dave Lefebre -- 15, 26-06
9. Mark Davis -- 15, 24-03
10. Jacob Wheeler -- 11, 23-09
11. Mark Daniels -- 8, 20-13
12. Takahiro Omori -- 8, 19-12
13. Greg Vinson -- 12, 18-13
14. Chris Lane -- 10, 18-00
15. Matt Lee -- 7, 17-15
16. Jordan Lee -- 9, 17-05
17. Russ Lane -- 7, 16-01
18. Michael Neal -- 8, 13-14
19. Jared Lintner -- 8, 13-13
20. Stephen Browning -- 10, 13-00
21. Casey Ashley -- 6, 13-00
22. Gary Klein -- 8, 12-14
23. Roy Hawk -- 5, 12-12
24. Edwin Evers -- 8, 11-00
25. Brett Hite -- 8, 10-13
26. Cody Meyer -- 5, 10-03
27. Andy Morgan -- 8, 9-14
28. Tim Horton -- 6, 9-04
29. James Watson -- 6, 9-00
30. Jason Lambert -- 4, 7-00
31. David Walker -- 3, 6-04
32. Fred Roumbanis -- 4, 5-12
33. Tommy Biffle -- 2, 4-03
34. Mike McClelland -- 3, 4-00
35. Keith Poche -- 3, 3-14
36. Kelly Jordon -- 2, 3-13
37. James Elam -- 3, 3-04
38. Shin Fukae -- 2, 2-06
39. Andy Montgomery -- 1, 1-14
40. Justin Lucas -- 1, 1-06

 

GROUP B (Best 5)
1. Greg Hackney: 19-12
2. Jason Christie: 18-14
3. Alton Jones Jr.: 18-05
4. Terry Scroggins: 17-00
5. Aaron Martens: 16-03
6. John Murray: 15-14
7. Brandon Palaniuk: 15-05
8 (tie). Anthony Gagliardi: 14-11
8 (tie). Jonathon VanDam: 14-11
10. Adrian Avena: 14-00

Day 2 Actual Results Group B

1. Marty Robinson -- 34, 56-00
2. Anthony Gagliardi -- 20, 41-14
3. Jacob Powroznik -- 20, 33-08
4. Greg Hackney -- 14, 31-06
5. Alton Jones -- 17, 30-01
6. Adrian Avena -- 14, 30-01
7. Fletcher Shryock -- 20, 30-00
8. Jason Christie -- 12, 29-00
9. Aaron Martens -- 13, 27-15
10. Jonathon VanDam -- 13, 26-02
11. Alton Jones Jr -- 9, 24-10
12. Wesley Strader -- 13, 23-05
13. Mike Iaconelli -- 14, 22-11
14. Terry Scroggins -- 9, 22-04
15. John Murray -- 9, 21-05
16. Todd Faircloth -- 14, 20-14
17. Bobby Lane -- 13, 20-06
18. Brent Ehrler -- 11, 18-14
19. Bradley Roy -- 9, 18-13
20. Gerald Swindle -- 11, 18-04
21. Jeff Sprague -- 8, 16-03
22. Brandon Palaniuk -- 5, 15-05
23. Jesse Wiggins -- 10, 15-01
24. Mark Rose -- 8, 15-01
25. Shaw Grigsby -- 8, 13-07
26. Kevin VanDam -- 6, 12-00
27. Luke Clausen -- 7, 11-09
28. Brent Chapman -- 4, 7-04
29. Dean Rojas -- 4, 6-12
30. Dustin Connell -- 5, 6-01
31. Paul Elias -- 3, 5-12
32. Skeet Reese -- 4, 5-01
33. Cliff Pace -- 4, 4-11
34. Cliff Crochet -- 2, 4-10
35. Scott Suggs -- 3, 4-08
36. Justin Atkins -- 2, 2-14
37. Britt Myers -- 2, 2-11
38. Jeff Kriet -- 1, 2-07
39. Josh Bertrand -- 2, 2-04
40. Boyd Duckett -- 1, 2-02

[BassNJake]

I was not a fan of the new MLF tour when it was announced.

I'm an old school type of guy- the bassmaster classic has always been the biggest tournament in Bass fishing.

To get there you had to first qualify for the Elite series, then qualify through AOY standing to get there.

You also had a couple long shots at trying to get in from the Opens or from BASS Nation.

They then added a college angler and then the team trail which were all improvements.

More and more of the best guys from the other trail, FLW were making there way into the Elite series.

They added the BASS live shows which changed how fishing would be broadcast to the public.

So the Elite series was transforming into the trail I wanted to see as a fan.

 

So the whole MLF poaching 80 of the best anglers from the elite series felt the same to me as when Art Modell moved the Cleveland Browns to Baltimore.

 

I watched this weeks coverage of the Bass Pro Tour and it was great.

The coverage was good, the on water action was great, the service could use improvement as I had to refresh/ wait for their service to come back up. So for the first event it was very good and will improve as they find their feel for what works and what does not work. *** after talking over guys and cutting away from fish catches on day one, this was improved over the duration of the tournament***

 

I'm really interested to see how Discovery channel edits all the footage to make "their" show.

This has so much potential for the non-bass fishing crowd which would lead to more $$$ for the anglers.

 

 

[Hawkeye21]

3 hours ago, Logan S said:

I'll bite ...Few flaws from my perspective.  My opinion only, although pretty much all my fishing friends feel the same way.  We all watched most of the live coverage.    

 

Lee is unreal and this is not meant to take anything away from his victory...He beat all the other top pros playing by the same rules.  But he won the event without ever catching a 5lb bass.  In FL.  During Pre-spawn/Spawning time.  I'm not calling it a 'dink-fest', just saying that there's no question (IMO) that the format favors smaller fish in greater numbers.  Whether that's good or bad I guess is up for debate.  IMO, a limit is preferable...Doesn't even have to be 5 fish (though that's the standard now), just something.  

 

Weights resetting meant that the top anglers basically quit fishing on the 2nd day.  It also means that anglers will often shoot for 'good enough' as opposed to the best they can do.  How cool would it have been to see Howell or Robinson or Ott or anyone else break the 100lb mark on day 2?  If the format is going count all fish, let those guys keep the pedal to the metal and really put some crazy numbers up.  At the very least...Go take the live camera out of the dude's boats when they're coasting and give it to another angler in the mix!  

 

Since weights reset, the drama on cut day ends up being on 20th (or 10th) place.  It's entertaining but at the same time, I want to watch the guys at the top smashing fish...Not watch guys who have 'kind of figured it out' scrape up a 20th place spot (no hate, just obvious observation based on their placement).

 

Some other observations....

 

I don't really understand what the separate periods accomplish since they don't need to run back or be anywhere for the start or finish.  Seems like it's just a built in break for the anglers, which is fine I guess.  I don't like or dislike it, just don't see a need.  My initial thought after the 1st event is that I'd rather just have the extra fishing time (or viewing time as a fan) and no break.  

 

The free ride time in the morning and not needing to be back at the ramp for the end of tournament is an interesting twist.  I really don't know how I feel about it.  As someone that's made the gamble of long runs on tournament day (with success and failure), I can see two sides to it.  It would be nice to have that risk taken out of the equation, but at the same time it takes away that reward for choosing to be bold.  I can see myself both liking and disliking it in certain situations. 

 

I thought the overall live show was pretty good, although I had a ton of technical issues and needed to refresh constantly.  I know some seemed to have no issues, but I'm a tech guy and I'm 99% certain the issues weren't on my end.  I watch BASS/FLW the exact same ways and have zero issues with either. 

 

I was bothered by the anti-livewell comments made by anglers and the announcers and the little commercial they run slamming normal tournaments was in poor taste.  It's all fine to promote their system, but but actively putting down the standard format is not a good look and could result in some negative unintended consequences.  The fact that many of these anglers will still be fishing in the Classic this year, yet were slamming livewell usage is a bit hypocritical IMO.  The MLF format is not workable on a large scale at the local level, at least not yet, so what do they expect 99% of the tournament trails out there to do?  Quit fishing?  I also believe their fish-care comments and concerns are way overblown...Livewells are not a death sentence for bass, not even close.  

 

Finally, just for my own defense from criticism of being a 'hater'...I actually like the catch-weigh-release format, though I prefer 5-bass limits.  I have fished in many CWR tournaments (with actual scales, not length - exactly like MLF style) and will be fishing in 7 or 8 more this year.  My club uses the format for some tournaments, so I am very aware of the challenges and limitations of putting this type of tournament on at a local level.  

 

That's a lot more than I thought I'd write...Oh well, nothing else to do except work .  Enjoy.

 

I think those are all fair opinions.  I don't really share them with you but that's fine.  I prefer this format and some people prefer the 5 largest fish format, luckily there are both available to watch.

 

I had issue with it freezing up a lot and it looks like almost everyone did.  That sucked but it was a simple fix of refreshing the page.  Overall I thought it went really well for their first ever event.  I liked that they really seemed to be listening to the fans and making adjustments.  I noticed they tried harder not to talk over anglers when they could help it.

[Hawkeye21]

On 2/4/2019 at 9:13 AM, Jeff Browning said:

Totally agree with the comment about Ike.  I'm a fan of the guy and know he's an emotional guy.  But it's all part of the gig - time to grow up!  Take the good with the bad and face the music man!

The anglers are not required to go to the post game line so it's not really a big deal other than everyone knows he was upset.

[J Francho]

2 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Might be a while to see final numbers, if they become available. I've pulled it for a lot of the older events, but I do have first round numbers (Day 1 and Day 1, Group A & B to compare:

 

Here's what the top 10 in each group would look like if anglers were credited only with the weight of their best five fish:

Quantity over size is rewarded.  Marty Robinson of Group B is an example.

[12poundbass]

2 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Seems like it's going to be lower.

But does it matter ?  Is that what these derbies are about ?

It is lower but not by much from what I've seen. I saw someplace last week where last year the average bass caught over the entire Elite season was right around 2 lbs. The BPT average for last week total was 1.70 lbs. It's not apples to apples and to answer your other question, no it doesn't matter.

 

I enjoy the format, I loved the coverage what I was able to watch. I also look forward to seeing what the rest of the season brings and I'm looking forward to seeing the edited polished version of each event months later even though we know who's already won.

[J Francho]

I'd rather look at average bass caught by top contenders, say top 20.  What it takes to win will be a greater difference.

 

[12poundbass]

2 hours ago, J Francho said:

Is that true?  Average bass weight would be based on each angler's top five in other tours, not average bass caught.

It's almost impossible to compare apples to apples, so I don't know who has the advantage with their average the Elites or BPT? The Elites only weigh the 5 biggest so does that bring their average up? Or BPT weighing more fish does that help or hurt? At the end of the day it doesn't really matter. I say win win for us viewers/fans because it gives us something totally different and more fishing to watch. 

[Hawkeye21]

I don't see why they need to be compared at all.  They are completely different events and that's what it's designed to be.  Events like the Bassmaster's Classic is meant to be a big live event.  The BPT are meant to be large media events.  They each cater to different people.

 

All it comes down to is watching what you find most enjoyable.  There is no reason to try an compare them, unless you're one of those fanboy people like with truck brands. 

[jbsoonerfan]

The average driving distance in the World long drive tour is going to be greater than the average driving distance on the PGA tour. Two different games.

[Logan S]

22 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

I say win win for us viewers/fans because it gives us something totally different and more fishing to watch. 

It might not be win-win if BPT keeps bad mouthing standard tournaments.  Many states are tightening the screws on traditional tournaments, MD is one.  MD has already cited MLF in the past when creating new regulations, it wouldn't be a stretch for them pass tournament regulations prohibiting livewell usage - they already talked about it (I've been at the meetings).  The problem is that the style is not workable on the local/regional level - I have first hand experience in this.  Something like a BFL would be chaos, if not outright impossible.  So what are all the local tournament anglers and trails going to do?

 

BPT has the biggest platform right now and the most influential anglers.  What they say is going to be heard.  IMO, they are potentially hurting many thousands of bass fisherman by hammering on the anti-livewell stuff....Which in my opinion AND experience is way overblown from their side.  Not only that, they are driving people like me away from their trail - I don't really need to be lectured on livewell usage by guys that have spent 20+ years carting fish around in livewells for money.  

 

I don't like the format and several other things...But whatever, that's really not too important.  The fact they seem to almost be pushing for standard tournaments to go away is really bothersome to me, and I'm far from alone on this.

[J Francho]

56 minutes ago, Logan S said:

So what are all the local tournament anglers and trails going to do?

Decide which five you're going to keep, no culling?  Doesn't sound too great.

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, Logan S said:

It might not be win-win if BPT keeps bad mouthing standard tournaments.  Many states are tightening the screws on traditional tournaments, MD is one.  MD has already cited MLF in the past when creating new regulations, it wouldn't be a stretch for them pass tournament regulations prohibiting livewell usage - they already talked about it (I've been at the meetings).  The problem is that the style is not workable on the local/regional level - I have first hand experience in this.  Something like a BFL would be chaos, if not outright impossible.  So what are all the local tournament anglers and trails going to do?

 

BPT has the biggest platform right now and the most influential anglers.  What they say is going to be heard.  IMO, they are potentially hurting many thousands of bass fisherman by hammering on the anti-livewell stuff....Which in my opinion AND experience is way overblown from their side.  Not only that, they are driving people like me away from their trail - I don't really need to be lectured on livewell usage by guys that have spent 20+ years carting fish around in livewells for money.  

 

I don't like the format and several other things...But whatever, that's really not too important.  The fact they seem to almost be pushing for standard tournaments to go away is really bothersome to me, and I'm far from alone on this.

The 'trash talk' is all that it is. I'd bet you won't hear anymore. As far the no livewell tournaments I don't see that ever happening in my state or any in the Midwest or the majority of the country for that matter. The MLF/BPT format I agree isn't feasible in the everyday tournaments.

[Hawkeye21]

I think you're going to see more and more catch and release tourneys.  I've never been a huge fan of using livewells for tourneys but I will do it because I have to in certain tourneys.  I only fish one or two boat tourneys a year though.

 

Majority of my tournament fishing is from a kayak and they are all catch, photo and release.  I love this format, and until they can find a way for all kayak anglers to use the same scales that can't be tampered with, it will remain my favorite format.

[RichF]

Catch and release tournies are great but how will you implement them on a local level? It works for the BPT and MLF because they have all the names, all the money, and all the influence.  You're not going to get any rando's off the street to sit in a BFL anglers boat for 8 hrs and weight their fish without paying them. I agree with @Logan S, having the 80 "best" anglers in the sport trash talk the use of livewells isn't going to go unnoticed...especially by the anti-tournament community.  

[Fishingmickey]

2 hours ago, Logan S said:

It might not be win-win if BPT keeps bad mouthing standard tournaments.  Many states are tightening the screws on traditional tournaments, MD is one.  MD has already cited MLF in the past when creating new regulations, it wouldn't be a stretch for them pass tournament regulations prohibiting livewell usage - they already talked about it (I've been at the meetings).  The problem is that the style is not workable on the local/regional level - I have first hand experience in this.  Something like a BFL would be chaos, if not outright impossible.  So what are all the local tournament anglers and trails going to do?

 

BPT has the biggest platform right now and the most influential anglers.  What they say is going to be heard.  IMO, they are potentially hurting many thousands of bass fisherman by hammering on the anti-livewell stuff....Which in my opinion AND experience is way overblown from their side.  Not only that, they are driving people like me away from their trail - I don't really need to be lectured on livewell usage by guys that have spent 20+ years carting fish around in livewells for money.  

 

I don't like the format and several other things...But whatever, that's really not too important.  The fact they seem to almost be pushing for standard tournaments to go away is really bothersome to me, and I'm far from alone on this.

I agree with the bad mouthing comments. it's just not good for the sport or BPT.

 

     Local tournament's and trails maybe ought to go the way of the Kayak bassers. CPR-catch photo and release. yes it has it's difficulties but I think it is a good merge between the two (biggest five weighed in and BPT style weigh, record and release).  Another format that I've experienced here in Texas was each angler came up on stage and had his fish pictures displayed on a large flat screen along with a "hot seat" for the current leader.

FM

[Logan S]

1 hour ago, Fishingmickey said:

Local tournament's and trails maybe ought to go the way of the Kayak bassers.

Sorry, I'm going to disagree...They aught not have to do anything.  Why do they need to change? Just because BPT says so after 1 event?  

 

It's really easy for BPT/MLF to say, "Everyone should do it our way," when they have the logistical and financial support of a massive professional tournament organization to make sure things go smoothly AND they only have to worry about a maximum of 40 boats at a time....Without that support, they might be singing a different tune.

 

They also aren't doing anything at local levels, which is where most bass tournaments happen.  Professional or semi-pro events are a very small fraction of bass tournaments nation-wide.  Where is the BPT equivalent to a BFL?  Give people the option and they might use it...But as it stands right now the overwhelming majority of tournament anglers can't use the MLF/BPT style even if they wanted to.  Give me that option in a reliable way and I'll take it.  

 

I'll get off the soap box now, thanks for listening.

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, Logan S said:

Sorry, I'm going to disagree...They aught not have to do anything.  Why do they need to change? Just because BPT says so after 1 event?  

 

It's really easy for BPT/MLF to say, "Everyone should do it our way," when they have the logistical and financial support of a massive professional tournament organization to make sure things go smoothly AND they only have to worry about a maximum of 40 boats at a time....Without that support, they might be singing a different tune.

 

They also aren't doing anything at local levels, which is where most bass tournaments happen.  Professional or semi-pro events are a very small fraction of bass tournaments nation-wide.  Where is the BPT equivalent to a BFL?  Give people the option and they might use it...But as it stands right now the overwhelming majority of tournament anglers can't use the MLF/BPT style even if they wanted to.  Give me that option in a reliable way and I'll take it.  

 

I'll get off the soap box now, thanks for listening.

I think you might have the cart before th horse at this point! You've made some valid points and as Maryland as consirned it might be valid but I think after one event and a couple comments from the pros I think it's pretty early to freak out. JMHO

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, Logan S said:

Sorry, I'm going to disagree...They aught not have to do anything.  Why do they need to change? Just because BPT says so after 1 event?  

 

It's really easy for BPT/MLF to say, "Everyone should do it our way," when they have the logistical and financial support of a massive professional tournament organization to make sure things go smoothly AND they only have to worry about a maximum of 40 boats at a time....Without that support, they might be singing a different tune.

 

They also aren't doing anything at local levels, which is where most bass tournaments happen.  Professional or semi-pro events are a very small fraction of bass tournaments nation-wide.  Where is the BPT equivalent to a BFL?  Give people the option and they might use it...But as it stands right now the overwhelming majority of tournament anglers can't use the MLF/BPT style even if they wanted to.  Give me that option in a reliable way and I'll take it.  

 

I'll get off the soap box now, thanks for listening.

You could use the same argument with BASS. They over the years have taken a stance on conservation and catch and release (which I exercise) and science has proven since BASS has pushed the catch and release lakes have taken a downfall. Catch and release (again I practice) has been cemented in the minds of the majority of bass anglers that it's contributed to the slow froth of bass because of the over population of bass. Steve Kennedy within the last week contributed to a thread which I was a part of in which he showed unscientifical data to prove this. 

[jbsoonerfan]

I hope we get to the point where we can have a CWR style event on the local level where people can be trusted. People still find ways to cheat on the 5 fish limit. I don't know how it could be done, but I am all for it. I have caught and unfortunately killed a couple over 6 because of stress/livewell size/water temp to make me not a fan of keeping them.

[Troy85]

On a positive note, between BASS and BPT, we have a great 3 weeks of Bass fishing.  We had BPT Tuesday-Sunday last week, Thursday-Sunday this week we have BASS at St Johns.  Starting Tuesday next week, we have BPT on Conroe.  I don't know what to do with myself

[Hawkeye21]

9 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

I hope we get to the point where we can have a CWR style event on the local level where people can be trusted. People still find ways to cheat on the 5 fish limit. I don't know how it could be done, but I am all for it. I have caught and unfortunately killed a couple over 6 because of stress/livewell size/water temp to make me not a fan of keeping them.

As long as humans have an opportunity to cheat there will always be some that do it.  It will never change.  The only way I can see it working on a local level is to require everyone to take a polygraph test after the tourney.  Not sure how feasible that is but it's got to be easier than having judges on every boat.  Catch, photo release works a little better but people still find ways of cheating as well.