Are big* bass smarter or just rare?

[The Maestro]

On 1/29/2019 at 11:21 AM, The Maestro said:

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by The Maestro

[slonezp]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

 

So the moon phase overrode any weather conditions?

 

That's a question for Miss Cleo

[Ratherbfishing]

I'd have to say "both".  They are more rare but wouldn't attain their size without also being a little smarter than the average bass.

[Deleted account]

28 minutes ago, slonezp said:

That's a question for Miss Cleo

Or the Magic 8 ball...

"Reply hazy, ask again"

[WRB]

In the animal world that we as humans belong in intelligence varies between species and individuals within each specie. Some humans are bone heads with an IQ equal to their age and some are brilliant, most fall somewhere inbetween. Every specie has it's dumb as dirt and brilliant individuals. A good example Alex the African Grey parrot was a brilliant bird. Black bass are not any different in the animal world, some we consider stupid others we deem brilliant, usually those we can't catch. Size has nothing to do with IQ, in the animal world, it has a lot to do with survival.

Are big bass smarter then small bass?, not necessarly but they are rulers of their jungle.

Tom

[The Maestro]

5 minutes ago, WRB said:

In the animal world that we as humans belong in intelligence varies between species and individuals within each specie. Some humans are bone heads with an IQ equal to their age and some are brilliant, most fall somewhere inbetween. Every specie has it's dumb as dirt and brilliant individuals. A good example Alex the African Grey patriot was a brilliant bird. Black bass are not any different in the animal world, some we consider stupid others we deem brilliant, usually those we can't catch. Size has nothing to do with IQ, in the animal world, it has a lot to do with survival.

Are big bass smarter then small bass?, not necessarly but they are rulers of their jungle.

Tom

Bass are known to be a "smart" fish as far as fish go.  Are they solving mathematical equations or composing symphonies? No.  But I believe most anglers don't give them enough credit either.  It also stands to reason that the big ones likely had some competitive advantage (possibly including above average "intelligence".)  This, combined with "experience" makes them a formidable adversary.

[soflabasser]

5 pages in 5 days...must be very cold up north! Best way to catch a big bass is to fish for big bass. Use techniques known for big bass and fish for big bass in areas known to have them. It is the weekend now so it would be best to go fishing and fish for big bass than just read about them.

[J Francho]

Keep it civil guys.  Off topic posts removed.

[David Moore]

The very big bass are a mix of both. They have been around much longer and very few fish get to be very big at all. The big girls have seen every lure out there. They also do not get that huge by accident. For a perspective, they have to avoid being caught and harvested by anglers, avoid being eaten by other fish, live long enough to grow, avoid animals like birds, and a whole lot of different things.

[schplurg]

On 1/28/2019 at 7:55 AM, CrankFate said:

If natural selection actually occurs, we should all practice catch and release, so all the stupid fish that eat plastic and rubber with metal on it multiply. If we kill all the dumb ones, then we’ll be left with fish that are smarter, have better eyesight, sense of vibration and everything else that makes them harder to catch.

 

Natural selection actually occurs.

 

Bass are already so stupid/aggressive that they'll bite just about anything under the right conditions. I'm thinking about attaching some trebs to my GoPro and casting it for some interesting footage.

[TnRiver46]

5 hours ago, schplurg said:

 

Natural selection actually occurs.

 

Bass are already so stupid/aggressive that they'll bite just about anything under the right conditions. I'm thinking about attaching some trebs to my GoPro and casting it for some interesting footage.

My buddy put a go pro in a smallmouth nest once and walked away for half an hour. Pretty interesting footage, the fish was nosing into the camera several times 

[Catt]

Some of y'all need to read the DNA research by Texas Parks & Wildlife.

 

Not every bass born is capable of attaining 10 lbs plus regardless of diet. So yes that means they are "rare" but through aggressive stocking that percentage of rarity can be changed.

 

The only way a bass can "learn" to avoid certain lures is not by simply seeing them but by actually biting them!

 

Look at all the videos showing bass being conditioned to respond to stimuli. They only respond after being presented with the stimuli on numerous occasions.

 

Do y'all really think you have put every lure in front of a bass in wild often enough for it to "learn" every lure?

 

[CrankFate]

7 hours ago, schplurg said:

 

Natural selection actually occurs.

 

Bass are already so stupid/aggressive that they'll bite just about anything under the right conditions. I'm thinking about attaching some trebs to my GoPro and casting it for some interesting footage.

That would be great, if you do please post the video!

[Harold Scoggins]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 6:57 PM, WRB said:

In Pursuit of Giant Bass, moon phases starts on page 88 to 94, 6 pages.

For numbers Murphy usually likes 2 to 3 days prior and after the dark of the moon, for big fish the 2 to 3 days prior and after the full moon.

If you want the 6 pages I can scan them and email.

Tom

Got my copy back yesterday. It was page 90 that caught my attention, specifically where he talks about the 3/4 waxing/waning phase.

Now, when I get my lava lamp fixed, I'll pull out my journals and compare.

[J Francho]

I think you'd want to factor in water clarity, depth, and cloud cover into account when talking about the moon.

[Jacob_Starr]

On 1/28/2019 at 1:31 AM, FCPhil said:

This past year I caught 82 bass over a pound (I’m shorebound) including my PB which was 5lb 7oz. My next biggest of the year was 3-14 followed by a few more 3’s. 

 

These numbers got me thinking, are larger bass really smarter/harder to catch, or are the just rare? It seems possible where I fish that a 5 pounder is simply a 1 out of 82 fish. (*I realize big is a relative term depending where you fish). 

 

Typically I have assumed larger bass were more difficult to catch for one of the following reasons:

1. They have learned over years of being caught and released to avoid lures (but I have heard studies show they have very little ability to reason like this). 

2. Their temperament is less aggressive so they are less likely to be caught and live longer (but then it seems they would be out-competed for food). 

3. They have happened to choose to inhabit areas of the lake that not fished as often (seems to only apply for bank fishing). 

 

On the other hand, if large fish are just rare, not harder to catch, why are they more vulnerable in the pre-spawn and fall when they feeding drive is heightened, and less likely to be caught other times of the year like smaller bass?

when you said “their temperament is less aggressive”, I would partially agree with this, but would say that my theory (have little proof of this) would be that larger Bass generally consume larger prey (such as larger bluegill, smaller bass, and in the north, smaller perch specimens). Because of this, I would assume that larger bass seem less aggressive because they consume bigger prey so they have to feed less often. This is the case with trophy trout as well. Although often they will chase large, 5 inch sculpins, they do so less often for their own safety. In conclusion, I’d say larger bass probably consume bigger prey to better improve the amount of food they gain with the least amount of energy expended. 

[king fisher]

I don't think bass are intelligent, but even a complete idiot will learn not to stick something in its mouth that hurts like hell, causes them to get yanked clear out of their home, made to hold their breath, for longer than an Olympic swimmer, and  taken pictures of without their  permission.   All I can say is they are smart enough to outsmart me on most occasions.  In order for me to keep my fragile ego intact, I prefer to think, they are extremely rare and anglers that catch larger fish than me, are either cheats, liars, or have secret lures not available to me. 

P.S.  Big bass in Mexico are more plentiful, and less educated than big bass in the US, but still manage to out smart me most of the time.

[geo g]

All bass are far from smart.  Big bass are just rare, and out numbered 1,000 to 1 by bass of smaller size.  The smaller ones just don't make it to large size very often.  They get picked off and eaten before making it.

[PressuredFishing]

On 1/27/2019 at 10:31 PM, FCPhil said:

This past year I caught 82 bass over a pound (I’m shorebound) including my PB which was 5lb 7oz. My next biggest of the year was 3-14 followed by a few more 3’s. 

 

These numbers got me thinking, are larger bass really smarter/harder to catch, or are the just rare? It seems possible where I fish that a 5 pounder is simply a 1 out of 82 fish. (*I realize big is a relative term depending where you fish). 

 

Typically I have assumed larger bass were more difficult to catch for one of the following reasons:

1. They have learned over years of being caught and released to avoid lures (but I have heard studies show they have very little ability to reason like this). 

2. Their temperament is less aggressive so they are less likely to be caught and live longer (but then it seems they would be out-competed for food). 

3. They have happened to choose to inhabit areas of the lake that not fished as often (seems to only apply for bank fishing). 

 

On the other hand, if large fish are just rare, not harder to catch, why are they more vulnerable in the pre-spawn and fall when they feeding drive is heightened, and less likely to be caught other times of the year like smaller bass?

They are smarter, think about it this way, a 1 month human compared to a 2 year human is vastly different in comparison. Smaller fish are much easier to catch because their like that juvenile delinquent that gives into trying something stupid, whereas an older bass is more comparable to a Steven hawking, aware, apart, and always thinking.

[bulldog1935]

Gary Borger describes this best.  

"Fish psychologists" have worked out the IQ of a trout is 6, and the smartest fish, carp, has IQ of 12.  

So let's say a bass falls somewhere in between - IQ=9.  

You never get outsmarted by fish - at least, let's hope not.  

 

By natural selection, brave and inquisitive fish become become food as fry and never live to breed.  

Big fish aren't smart, big fish are cowards.  

 

If you're not catching fish, they're not eating, they're not eating what you're offering, you haven't found the water conditions where the bait and gamefish hang, or your stealth isn't working.  

[Mr. Aquarium]

On 1/28/2019 at 6:33 AM, Mobasser said:

Lots of fisherman won't put in the time needed to learn the location of big bass. To me, this is the main reason fewer are caught. Location is the key.

I’ve patterned the big fish in a few of my spots. I’m still learning how they want the lure presented. It happens once a year. Could be a week could be a few days. Who knows. But it’s my best chance to stick a PB. I lost a PB in April. I was 3 for 5 of bass over 5 lbs. They wanted one lure presented a certain way. I sat hours on the spot. I got 2 back to backs 5s. A 5 even and 6.5 on 2 casts. The next day I got a 5.5 within the first 10 casts.  The day after I sat for 2 hours and missed my  chance at a giant. Spit the hook on the 2nd jump. 

[NavyToad]

On 1/28/2019 at 11:12 AM, Gundog said:

A basses brain is small...

meaning it only has a few functions. Reasoning isn't one of them. You can't teach them algebra or philosophy or even the fact that Tiger Wood's career in golf is pretty much over, he'll never win another major tournament and he should just retire and enjoy the billion dollars he has. But I digress. A fishes brain is for only eating and making little fishes. He has no inclination to learn not to hit certain lures or be educated in the ways of us anglers. And I think we are better for this. 

I’m probably not the first guy who ragged you about Tiger. You sure had bad timing on that one. LOL!

[Bankc]

My theory is the biggest bass are bullies.  They can choose the best spots to hide and wait for the food to come to them.  And since food is plentiful, they can be picky about what and when they feed.  So they're less likely to go after a single lure when a school of baitfish will soon pass by.  The amount of food you can catch versus the amount of energy expelled goes up significantly if there's a school of fish swimming right next to the big bass's ambush spot.

 

Smaller bass have to find food in less than ideal conditions.  They get pushed off the best spots.  So they have to be more aggressive and exposed to feed.  Many lures mimic an injured bait fish.  For a small bass, this makes for an easier meal.  For a big bass, it presents a risk.  Is this baitfish sick, and will it make the bass sick if they eat it?  

 

Plus there are more smaller bass in any given lake.  So big bass are definitely more rare, just by the fact that it takes time to get big and the longer you live, the more dangers you will have faced.  Of course, there are environmental factors that can skew that.

 

And I doubt big bass are much smarter.  Human brains don't fully develop until around 27, so that's a bad comparison.  Animals like fish and reptile's brains are usually fully developed not long after birth.  But big bass may seem smarter to us, as they're less likely to be motivated to try to eat something if something seems a bit off or conditions aren't ideal.  So they'll pass on your injured baitfish snack that your throwing a few feet away and wait for that buffet to come knocking on their door.

[RealtreeByGod]

Maybe I'm just baselessly generalizing and speculating but I feel like bigger bass are less hungry because they can eat bigger and more filling meals and therefore won't be as likely to chase lures. Like, a 5lb bass choking down 4-8 inch bluegills doesn't feel like it needs to eat as much as a 1.5lb bass subsisting on minnows and small crawdads.

[Luke Barnes]

Glad this got bumped. Ive really enjoyed reading it. I'm trying to relate all the info to ponds. Not as many places to go or hide so big bass may move around alot. No idea. Ive only caught two bass over 4lbs and both were in ponds that ive fished hard and never caught one within a pound or more. So maybe it was the only one over 4lbs in the pond or the only one ive managed to catch and maybe there is a 6lb bass in there. No idea. But I know I want to break my pb and break 5lbs. Small by most standards but would be the biggest for me.