Are big* bass smarter or just rare?

[Deleted account]

48 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Thanks ~ 

 That Green Bass weighted 10-15.

She ate a 1 oz football jig with a 10 inch Junebug Bullworm trailer off the bottom on a hump in 30 ft. 

The Brown Bass is my PB at 7-5.

She ate a spinnerbait and until I saw her, I thought she was a Big Pike.

You can watch the last portion of the fight, the net job and my reaction here . . . 

A-Jay

I want you to adopt me.

[bagofdonuts]

Hmmm.....both those big bass ate big baits. Maybe another reason big bass are caught less frequently.

[gim]

Its also possible that big or bigger bass eat bigger meals less frequently, as compared to smaller bass eating smaller meals more frequently.  I'm not saying a big bass won't eat a small meal, but eating a big meal that is the equivalent of 10 small meals saves a lot of energy.  Just a thought.

[slonezp]

On 1/28/2019 at 3:04 PM, geo g said:

Regardless of what some bass fisherman want to believe, big bass are not smart, and not smarter then smaller ones.  There are just a lot more smaller ones that out number the big old girls.  Bass have small thinking portions of the brain, and rely on instincts programed through millions of years of survival.  They react to stimuli in the environment and certain environmental conditions.  They do have larger sections of brain that support detecting stimuli in the water.  It's up to the fisherman to understand these conditions, and make a presentation that will trigger a bite.  Bass are not smart, some fisherman just are smarter then others!

 

20 hours ago, The Maestro said:

This is another big factor.  Big bass have seen, interacted with and eaten the real thing everyday of their lives and we're trying to convince them that a piece of plastic is food.  They're a top predator in their environment and will easily pick up on any negative cues or flaws in our presentation.

 

19 hours ago, A-Jay said:

  I've read through this thread a couple of times now, and I plan to revisit it often as it continues to grow, (and I suspect it will - because its January).  I certainly appreciate & respect the different opinions & views shared here.

 

Like so many threads & post on the BR forums, it is really interesting to learn how wildly different the ideas & options are on this subject.  And what may be just as noteworthy, is how these conclusions may have been reached.  

 

 To the several anglers on this forum, who have decades of big bass fishing experience and who have recorded some amazing catches over the years, the fact that you are willing to share any of what you have worked so hard to learn & use effectively, is extremely generous.   So Thank You.

 

My experience fishing in waters that hold trophy bass is limited relatively speaking.

The most effective approach for me has been to specifically target bigger bass.

Almost Always means long hours on the water & Way Less Bites, insert ' because they are rare'.

The other factor I've come to believe is Big Bass are Not "Smarter than little bass" - Nor are they 'conditioned to avoid being caught'.  They simply lead a life that exists away from anglers (not near the bank - except to spawn). 

 Only when I am able to put the right bait, in the right place & at the right time - am I able to catch one. 

It really is like a needle in a hay stack.  But figuring out which hay stacks they prefer really improves the odds.

  And at least once a year, I get on a body of water that has way more big needles than most places. 

I do much better there. 

A-Jay

 

 

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, OkobojiEagle said:

Since this board is internet based which allows me to assert without documentation... I'll suggest that Mrs. Bass' sensory receptors grow in size and number as she grows, increasing her awareness of her surroundings.  This would alert her more keenly to negative cues in her nearby environment.  A flawless presentation of artificial bait (or using live bait, heaven forbid) may be more necessary to catch a larger bass than a smaller bass.

 

Forgive me for not annotating this, but I don't want to re-read the volumes on my bookshelves.  I think it may have come from Keith Jones' manuscript.

 

oe

There are less big bass than small bass because of a poor healthcare system. Even though they have spent their entire lives in school, not one of them has become a doctor.....

 

So lets expound on what some of you touched upon. The way a fish responds to its environment. Aside from seasonal migrations, which I believe causes fish to "drop their guard", and aside from "angler relocation", I believe most fish are resident fish. Meaning, they will spend their time in a certain area, as long as the proper conditions exist, be it a few days, a few weeks, or a few months. Let's say proper conditions are food, shelter, and oxygen. Fish become familiar with their surroundings. They know where the deep water is. They know where the structure is. They become familiar with cover as it is ever changing.

 

Now, add external stimuli to the residence. One of a few things will happen.

1. The fish will become curious. It will investigate and determine if the stimuli is good or bad. It's my belief that this is more prevalent with juvenile fish, as it is with any animal, as part of the learning process. 

2. The fish will become weary. Or, curious with a negative connotation.

3. The fish will become scared or "spooked"

4. The fish will become aggressive. It will attack out of fear, aggression, hunger.

5. The fish will ignore the stimuli because they just don't give a crap. It is my belief that this is more prevalent with mature (big) fish. They've seen it all. They've done it all. There's no more proving themselves. They eat when they want to eat. They fight when they want to fight. They screw when they want to screw. 

 

They are no different than any other animal when it comes to their environment. 

 

It's all about being at the right place at the right time.

   

[WRB]

If anyone looks at my profile I listed my top 5 bass all caught on a 7/16 oz hair jig with pork rind trailer, average size bass lure. All those bass were caught during pre spawn, in SoCal that is late Jan to early March, in 15' to 20' of water with rock structure and sparse cover using 10 and 12 lb mono line. None of that fits what the average bass angers believe. 

Every one of those giant bass listed were with other giant bass, they were not loners.

I knew the bass were in the area before catching them, I rarely catch big bass fishing blindly. I study these bass and spend long hours trying to catch them.

Bass don't have the ability to get angry or have any other human traits regarding temper. Bass do have the ability to detect harm but without fear.

Bass may have the brain size of a BB as yearlings and their brain grows as the bass grows. What is stored in their brain is unknown but the big bass have developed instincts over time by trail and error what harms them and what doesn't, then they aviod what is harmful. There are no very aggressive giant bass, those bass didn't survive.

Tom

[slonezp]

10 minutes ago, WRB said:

If anyone looks at my profile I listed my top 5 bass all caught on a 7/16 oz hair jig with pork rind trailer, average size bass lure. All those bass were caught during pre spawn, in SoCal that is late Jan to early March, in 15' to 20' of water with rock structure and sparse cover using 10 and 12 lb mono line. None of that fits what the average bass angers believe. 

Every one of those giant bass listed were with other giant bass, they were not loners.

I knew the bass were in the area before catching them, I rarely catch big bass fishing blindly. I study these bass and spend long hours trying to catch them.

Bass don't have the ability to get angry or have any other human traits regarding temper. Bass do have the ability to detect harm but without fear.

Bass may have the brain size of a BB as yearlings and their brain grows as the bass grows. What is stored in their brain is unknown but the big bass have developed instincts over time by trail and error what harms them and what doesn't, then they aviod what is harmful. There are no very aggressive giant bass, those bass didn't survive.

Tom

Please explain. Yes, bass don't have feelings. They can sense a threat. Is that not fear?

[WRB]

2 minutes ago, slonezp said:

Please explain. Yes, bass don't have feelings. They can sense a threat. Is that not fear?

Fear is an emotion only higher primates have. Territorial protection and survival instincts they have, like every animal. 

Tom

 

[Harold Scoggins]

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 11:54 AM, WRB said:

Bill Murphy's book In Pursuit of Giant Bass

I've been looking for my copy of this book ever since I read your reply and realized that I had loaned it to my brother. I need to get it back and read it again, it was a good read. I think it was in Bill's book where he made mention of the particular moon phase(s) where he caught the majority of his big bass. If you have your copy on hand, could you check it and see if he did indeed mention this in his book?

[WRB]

11 minutes ago, Harold Scoggins said:

I've been looking for my copy of this book ever since I read your reply and realized that I had loaned it to my brother. I need to get it back and read it again, it was a good read. I think it was in Bill's book where he made mention of the particular moon phase(s) where he caught the majority of his big bass. If you have your copy on hand, could you check it and see if he did indeed mention this in his book?

Sure, I believe my Cosmic Clock and Bass Cslender is very similar. Will take a look and reply.

Tom

[Deleted account]

6 minutes ago, WRB said:

Sure, I believe my Cosmic Clock and Bass Cslender is very similar. 

I always put on my mood ring and power crystal before feeding my pet rock, and falling asleep to my lava lamp, I just wish my bead curtain wasn't so noisy and the roof on the VW bus didn't leak. Where did I put my easy wider?.....

[Harold Scoggins]

2 hours ago, reason said:

I always put on my mood ring and power crystal before feeding my pet rock, and falling asleep to my lava lamp, I just wish my bead curtain wasn't so noisy and the roof on the VW bus didn't leak. Where did I put my easy wider?.....

Careful, you're showing your age with the bead curtain. I've never planned my fishing around the moon phases, when I want to go fishing, I go. I do, however, remember Murphy mentioning how he kept records spanning years and how he compared his largest bass with particular moon phases and that he had made some interesting observations involving the big bass he had caught over the years. I wish I had my copy of that book!

[WRB]

3 hours ago, WRB said:

Sure, I believe my Cosmic Clock and Bass Cslender is very similar. Will take a look and reply.

Tom

In Pursuit of Giant Bass, moon phases starts on page 88 to 94, 6 pages.

For numbers Murphy usually likes 2 to 3 days prior and after the dark of the moon, for big fish the 2 to 3 days prior and after the full moon.

If you want the 6 pages I can scan them and email.

Tom

[rtwvumtneer6]

On 1/28/2019 at 8:45 PM, WRB said:

4. It's easy to detect a strike from a slow big fat bass in cold water. Fsct: Big fat bass have enormous size head and mouth that makes up about 1/3rd thier length and can engulf your lure inside it's mouth without you being able to detect the strike and eject it before you realize or if you realize a strike has occurred. 

I've had a lot of discussions with my buddy about this, particular regarding presentations with bottom contact.  We both noticed that the majority of our "bigger" fish, relative to our area, have either been a small tick, line-watching or we picked up and felt weight.  On the other hand, the smaller bass, say 1-2 lbs often eat the presentation like it's their last meal.  

 

My other quick thought is on lure size.  I know they eat bluegill on my reservoir, and there are lots of them.  Yet, I throw a 1.5 sqaure bill that's a fraction of the size of the real thing.  Hmm....

 

Lots of really good stuff here.  Fun read while I'm in the single digits and colder outside.  

[OkobojiEagle]

Perhaps it is not the fish that are affected by the lunar cycle, but the fisherman...

 

 

oe

[Deleted account]

40 minutes ago, OkobojiEagle said:

Perhaps it is not the fish that are affected by the lunar cycle, but the fisherman...

 

 

oe

That's just lunacy!...  

[WRB]

There is factual data from tracking studies to support bass location during the lunar cycles. Most anglers recognize that active feeding bass are more likely to be caught then inactive suspended bass. Murphy includes in his book on page 88 a chart showing bass locations during lunar cycles. Both 1/4 & 3/4 moon phase the majority of bass are suspended, the full moon the majority are active near structure, the new moon the most bass are active near structure and some are suspended deeper then the 1/4 & 3/4 phase.

You can pooh pooh it or ignor it or as I do accept it and take advantage, which I did the past 45+ years catching big bass.

Tom

[A-Jay]

25 minutes ago, WRB said:

There is factual data from tracking studies to support bass location during the lunar cycles. Most anglers recognize that active feeding bass are more like to be caught then inactive suspended bass. Murphy includes in his book on page 88 a chart showing bass locations during lunar cycles. Both 1/4 & 3/4 moon phase the majority of bass are suspended, the full moon the majority are active near structure, the new moon the most bass are active near structure and some are suspended deeper then the 1/4 & 3/4 phase.

You can pooh pooh it or ignor it or as I do accept it and take advantage, which I did the past 45+ years catching big bass.

Tom

X2 ~ ! 

Three days before, day of and three days after, the October 2018 Full Moon.

Two Guys ~ 53 bass over 7 lbs.

We're both believers

A-Jay

 

[Deleted account]

11 hours ago, WRB said:

2 to 3 days prior and after the dark of the moon, the 2 to 3 days prior and after the full moon.

Count me in. This is gospel in most salt water circles. 3 of my 5 largest striped bass,redfish, and wahoo have come in this period as have many other big fish and memorable days.

[Catt]

10 hours ago, A-Jay said:

X2 ~ ! 

Three days before, day of and three days after, the October 2018 Full Moon.

Two Guys ~ 53 bass over 7 lbs.

We're both believers

A-Jay

 

 

What were the weather conditions during those seven days?

 

Could weather conditions have been "the" factor as much as moon phase or even more?

 

[A-Jay]

1 minute ago, Catt said:

 

What were the weather conditions during those seven days?

 

Could weather conditions have been "the" factor as much as moon phase or even more?

 

I'll go with - it's always a factor in some way.

Pressure dropped first two - clouds & wind.

Rest of the week was stable - sun & fun.

?

A-Jay

[Catt]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

I'll go with - it's always a factor in some way.

Pressure dropped first two - clouds & wind.

Rest of the week was stable - sun & fun.

?

A-Jay

 

So the moon phase overrode any weather conditions?

 

[WRB]

Weather is big factor but you can't predict it months in advance.

For me overcast light rain is perfect as it tends to extend the active feeding periods and in my small lakes reduce boat traffic.

The biggest factor is being out on the water where and when big bass are active and for me that coincided with days around the full moon period during pre spawn.

Tom

 

[A-Jay]

15 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

So the moon phase overrode any weather conditions?

 

 

3 minutes ago, WRB said:

Weather is big factor but you can't predict it months in advance.

For me overcast light rain is perfect as it tends to extend the active feeding periods and in my small lakes reduce boat traffic.

The biggest factor is being out on the water where and when big bass are active and for me that coincided with days around the full moon period during pre spawn.

Tom

 

My version is the moon probably got the big girls up, moving & thinking about feeding.

Then 'the weather' may have provided very favorable feeding opportunities.

It really was - The Perfect Storm. 

#dreamweek

A-Jay

[Catt]

7 minutes ago, WRB said:

The biggest factor is being out on the water where and when big bass are active and for me that coincided with days around the full moon period during pre spawn.

Tom

 

Round here bass are active during pre-spawn regardless of moon phase!

 

2 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

The Perfect Storm

 

So what made it "perfect"?

 

[A-Jay]

2 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

Round here bass are active during pre-spawn regardless of moon phase!

 

 

So what made it "perfect"?

 

That's easy . . .

 We were in the right place, at the right time, & doing the right thing; Repeatedly.  

While we didn't catch huge numbers - perhaps 20- 30 fish a day.

However, the average bass was like nothing I've ever seen and probably will never experience again.

I good with that.

A-Jay