Are big* bass smarter or just rare?

[Catt]

One thing that's never mentioned in these discussions is what is the average bass's life expectancy?

 

Texas Parks & Wildlife research has proven that genetically speaking not every bass is capable of attaining 10# plus status regardless of diet.

 

The whole premise of their stocking program is to stock local waters with fingerlings with the genetics from a 13# plus bass.

 

This not only increases the size of the overall population but it increases the numbers bass in the 10# plus size.

 

If the population of bass in your local waters doesn't have the genetics to attain 10# plus it never will.

[WRB]

Where I fish the FLMB that grow over 10 lbs are all female bass that live somewhere between 7 to 15 years. Male FLMB live about the same length of time and rarely grow heavier then 6 lbs, 4 lbs is a big male in my nick of the woods. The majority of males guarding nest sites are between 2 lbs to 3 lbs, a few 3 1/2 to 4 lbs. My biggest male bass was a northern strain 6 lb., 25"  long from San Vicente back in '69 that Larry Bothroff examined and determined the bass was around 15 years old looking at scales and stated he hasn't examined a bigger male.

Another factor to consider is big bass get big at a young age by out competing their year class competition and continue to most of thier lifetime then start to lose body mass at old age the last year or so of thier life. Prime weight age appears to be 12 years old in SoCal bass lakes.

When a bass gets to an adult size weighing over 4 lbs it does and goes whatever it wants to and becomes unpredictable behavior until the spawn cycle. These big bass move around and sometimes group up with other big bass. It's a guessing game that requires a lot of on the time fishing for them. Understanding basic bass behavior and determination is the key to catching them consistently.

Tom

[CrankFate]

3 hours ago, Gundog said:

A basses brain is small...

meaning it only has a few functions. Reasoning isn't one of them. You can't teach them algebra or philosophy or even the fact that Tiger Wood's career in golf is pretty much over, he'll never win another major tournament and he should just retire and enjoy the billion dollars he has. But I digress. A fishes brain is for only eating and making little fishes. He has no inclination to learn not to hit certain lures or be educated in the ways of us anglers. And I think we are better for this. 

Which is why you will sometimes see a big fish begin to follow a hot pink rubber stick with a curly tail, while wagging its tail happily following it before it takes a bite to see what it tastes like. 

[Hawkeye21]

2 hours ago, portiabrat said:

I suggest looking at DNR surveys. Where I fish, it takes a bass 12+ years to get to five lbs. According to DNR surveys in the lake, less than 5% of bass reach this age, so big fish much more are rare than average-sized fish. A lot has to go right for a fish to reach that age.

My brother-in-law caught a large mouth that was over 7lbs on the Rainbow Flowage last September.  That must have been one OLD fish.

I think I was watching a video from the Pond Boss the other week and he said that bass can get really big in northern states.  Bass live longer in the north and all they need is a good food supply to grow to a really big size.  Someone that is managing their own bass pond could grow double digit bass in the north.

[geo g]

Regardless of what some bass fisherman want to believe, big bass are not smart, and not smarter then smaller ones.  There are just a lot more smaller ones that out number the big old girls.  Bass have small thinking portions of the brain, and rely on instincts programed through millions of years of survival.  They react to stimuli in the environment and certain environmental conditions.  They do have larger sections of brain that support detecting stimuli in the water.  It's up to the fisherman to understand these conditions, and make a presentation that will trigger a bite.  Bass are not smart, some fisherman just are smarter then others!

[soflabasser]

First you need to fish in a area that has lots of big bass. Second you need to study the area you are fishing. Third you need to figure out what the bass want and give it to them. Fourth you need to have lots of patience and fish enough time to increase the chances of getting bit by a big bass. Fifth but not least, you need to accept that bass fishing is a hobby that you learn for a lifetime so continue repeating steps 1-4. With that said, I have lost count of the 8 pound or better largemouth bass I have caught throughout the years and I continue to catch both quality and quantity when other bass fishermen in my area of the state are complaining that the fish are not biting for whatever reason makes them feel better. As a bass fisherman you need to learn how to adapt, how to improvise, and how to overcome. Excuses do not give positive results but putting your time on the water wisely gives positive results.

[Catt]

The recorded ages of trophy size bass range from 4-16 years old, with an average of 10 years old. TPWD

 

[Brad Reid]

No doubt about the rarity factor. 

 

Many other good points.

 

I'd only add that I think very large bass are often missed because they are relatively slow moving and slower reacting compared to frisky "teenaged" 2 to 3 pounders. Smaller bass  just grab your bait before the big'un can get to it. 

 

This might then explain why so many of them are caught in colder weather . . . I believe that is a fact. And, I also seem to recall that a common catching time of day is more in the slack time, like 1 PM, not in the early and later hours. Correct me if I have this wrong but I know I have at least read both of these statements.

 

So, if it is so, in the case of cold water, it could be large fat bass are more insulated and less affected by cold water, smaller fish are just slower acting and any youthful advantages they have are lessened at these times. And, if many DD bass are caught in the early afternoon, it might be that smaller bass, when the bite sort of is in a lull, have already filled up earlier, so less competition.

 

Brad

[The Maestro]

I believe there are far more big bass in lakes that have healthy bass populations than it would seem based on how many are being caught.  The reason I say this is because in the 10 years (100's of days) that I've been fishing my home lake there was 1 day when the fishing was SO far above average it was ridiculous.  It seemed like everywhere I put my bait there was a fish.  And big fish too. Keep in mind I'm in Canada so 5lbs is a big bass here.  I caught a 4lb 14oz, a 4lb 12oz, a 3lb 12oz and lost one over 6lbs and one over 5lbs. + too many 1.5-2.5lbers to count.  I've never had a day remotely close to this despite having another 5 years of experience on this body of water after this particular day.  It showed me that there are indeed way more big bass out there than I used to think.  They're just difficult to catch.  I believe most of the big fish have brief feeding windows and are much more difficult to make bite outside of these times.  And yes.  I definitely believe they are far smarter than smaller bass based on my observations.

[Harold Scoggins]

7 hours ago, A-Jay said:

So this seemed to indicate to me that Big Bass might not necessarily be smarter per se, but do seem to make up a much smaller percentage of the total population.  

I've always believed that genetics played a major part in determining the percentage of "big" bass in a body of water. Lake management is key to a productive trophy lake also. The U.S. Forest Service owns and manages one of my favorite lakes here in Oklahoma and in 1995 they drained this lake and removed the northern strain bass and restocked it with Florida strain fingerlings. They also added gizzard shad and bluegill for forage and within two years there were 3 lb bass being caught. Within ten years 5 lb + was becoming the norm and today a person has a better than average chance of landing a double digit. The Forest Service is constantly monitoring the population via electrofishing and DNA testing and as a result, many locals are breaking their PBs on an annual basis. I've found that the lake has spoiled me as it has gotten to the point where 7-8 lb catches no longer excite me as they once did. I have to agree with @A-Jay, "smarts" isn't as important as many believe; bass are predators. Genetics + population + management + growing season yields a good time on the water.

[WRB]

Let's dispel some myths;

1. Big fat bass are slow and lazy. Fact: Big femal bass in the prime weight and age are the faster bass in the lake, nothing slow about these fish. 

2. Big fat bass can't compete with smaller bass for prey. Fact: Big fat bass often eat small bass as prey.

3. Big fat bass populations are similar in numbers to average size bass. Fact:Big fat bass often make up less then 1% of the total bass population.

4. It's easy to detect a strike from a slow big fat bass in cold water. Fsct: Big fat bass have enormous size head and mouth that makes up about 1/3rd thier length and can engulf your lure inside it's mouth without you being able to detect the strike and eject it before you realize or if you realize a strike has occurred. 

5. Northern strian LMB can grow to be the same size as Florida strain LMB. Fact: NLMB grow to be about 50% as heavy as FLMB in the same environmemt. FLMB are limited in range due to their cold water tolerance is poor.

The reason few truly big bass are caught is they become wary and keenly aware of everything in their environment. Anglers need to learn to hunt these special bass and trick them into striking artifical lures, not a easy task.

Big bass will group together to hunt some types of prey and if you are lucky to be there when feeding it's possible to catch several of them in a few hours.

Tom

 

[Sam]

Uncle Homer Circle and Glen Lau made an interesting discovery while filming the Bigmouth and Bigmouth Forever series of videos.

 

They noticed that the larger ladies would back off or hide when they heard a trolling motor.

 

So I would say the big ladies were "conditioned" to back off, hide and avoided eating when they heard the trolling motor and therefore were harder to catch.

 

If you can find the Uncle Homer Circle and Glen Lau videos scoop them up. They are outstanding.

[Glaucus]

I think there's a very fine line here. Bass are not smart. But time on the water has proven time and time again that bass can become conditioned (as Sam actually just said) in some sense. 

[CrankFate]

1 hour ago, Brad Reid said:

No doubt about the rarity factor. 

 

Many other good points.

 

I'd only add that I think very large bass are often missed because they are relatively slow moving and slower reacting compared to frisky "teenaged" 2 to 3 pounders. Smaller bass  just grab your bait before the big'un can get to it. 

 

This might then explain why so many of them are caught in colder weather . . . I believe that is a fact. And, I also seem to recall that a common catching time of day is more in the slack time, like 1 PM, not in the early and later hours. Correct me if I have this wrong but I know I have at least read both of these statements.

 

So, if it is so, in the case of cold water, it could be large fat bass are more insulated and less affected by cold water, smaller fish are just slower acting and any youthful advantages they have are lessened at these times. And, if many DD bass are caught in the early afternoon, it might be that smaller bass, when the bite sort of is in a lull, have already filled up earlier, so less competition.

 

Brad

Good points.

[Glaucus]

Bass being conditioned can clearly be seen in videos by The Fish Whisperer and Bamabass.

 

TFW has trained bass in a private pond to feed out of his hands and wait for him by the banks. He's trained them to track food that is thrown out to them. He will throw a shad and you watch as the massive wakes track the shad in the air and then the bass explode on it immediately.

 

Bamabass has conditioned his pet bass Moby. Moby knows when it's feeding time and behaves eerily like a dog when his owner is offering up treats. Bamabass also has 2 pet bass in a backyard pond who are trained the same. 

[The Maestro]

25 minutes ago, Glaucus said:

Bass being conditioned can clearly be seen in videos by The Fish Whisperer and Bamabass.

 

TFW has trained bass in a private pond to feed out of his hands and wait for him by the banks. He's trained them to track food that is thrown out to them. He will throw a shad and you watch as the massive wakes track the shad in the air and then the bass explode on it immediately.

 

Bamabass has conditioned his pet bass Moby. Moby knows when it's feeding time and behaves eerily like a dog when his owner is offering up treats. Bamabass also has 2 pet bass in a backyard pond who are trained the same. 

This type of behavior alludes to what I mentioned in my post above.  These fish have become accustomed to feeding during brief windows.  They've learned that sticking to these windows has kept them safe from exposure to predators while allowing them to conserve energy for growth.

 

I used to look up tournament results and it always amazed me how for most local (Ontario Canada) tournaments there would only be 1-2 fish over 5lbs caught (unless it was on big smallmouth water).  When you do the math we're talking 70-90 boat fields, 2 anglers per boat each fishing for 8 hours and they only manage 1-2 over 5lbs!  And these aren't you're average anglers.  These are experinced guys who know the water, and have fast boats with every electronic and technological advantage.

[Boomstick]

Big bass tend to move out from shallow cover into deeper and more open water but tend to be much more finicky and tend to feed on their own schedule. Finding a pattern of big bass is much harder than finding a pattern of smaller bass.

 

I recommend reading "In Pursuit of Giant Bass" by Bill Murphy if you're interested in catching big bass.

[The Maestro]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

 

The reason few truly big bass are caught is they become wary and keenly aware of everything in their environment. Anglers need to learn to hunt these special bass and trick them into striking artifical lures, not a easy task.

 

Tom

 

This is another big factor.  Big bass have seen, interacted with and eaten the real thing everyday of their lives and we're trying to convince them that a piece of plastic is food.  They're a top predator in their environment and will easily pick up on any negative cues or flaws in our presentation.

[A-Jay]

  I've read through this thread a couple of times now, and I plan to revisit it often as it continues to grow, (and I suspect it will - because its January).  I certainly appreciate & respect the different opinions & views shared here.

 

Like so many threads & post on the BR forums, it is really interesting to learn how wildly different the ideas & options are on this subject.  And what may be just as noteworthy, is how these conclusions may have been reached.  

 

 To the several anglers on this forum, who have decades of big bass fishing experience and who have recorded some amazing catches over the years, the fact that you are willing to share any of what you have worked so hard to learn & use effectively, is extremely generous.   So Thank You.

 

My experience fishing in waters that hold trophy bass is limited relatively speaking.

The most effective approach for me has been to specifically target bigger bass.

Almost Always means long hours on the water & Way Less Bites, insert ' because they are rare'.

The other factor I've come to believe is Big Bass are Not "Smarter than little bass" - Nor are they 'conditioned to avoid being caught'.  They simply lead a life that exists away from anglers (not near the bank - except to spawn). 

 Only when I am able to put the right bait, in the right place & at the right time - am I able to catch one. 

It really is like a needle in a hay stack.  But figuring out which hay stacks they prefer really improves the odds.

  And at least once a year, I get on a body of water that has way more big needles than most places. 

I do much better there. 

A-Jay

 

 

 

 

 

[FCPhil]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Let's dispel some myths;

1. Big fat bass are slow and lazy. Fact: Big femal bass in the prime weight and age are the faster bass in the lake, nothing slow about these fish. 

2. Big fat bass can't compete with smaller bass for prey. Fact: Big fat bass often eat small bass as prey.

I’m curious what your take is on this: I assume as bass grow, they become more effective predators. As they grow, they are capable of eating more and more of the fish in the pond (including smaller bass), their faster speed combined with their larger mouth make them harder for prey to escape and their are fewer similar size bass competing with them (for the larger prey). Therefore, as they grow, they become less desperate for food and can be “pickier” about their meals. They would not necessarily have to be smart, just less desperate for food (because it comes easier for them) and thus, less inclined to eat a lure that does not quite look like the prey they are used to.

 

They still eat lures different than their normal prey at times, just less often because they more readily can catch baitfish. 

 

Thoughts anyone?

[Koz]

Obviously the different strains of bass make a difference as well as the forage and water conditions. And then there's where the bass falls in the food chain in that body of water.

 

For example, when a larger alligator moves in to one of our averaged size residential lagoons it can have a noticeable negative impact on the bass fishing in that lagoon. Suddenly, even that big bass is no longer the top predator. But if that same alligator moves on to one of our smaller lakes in those same communities there is no noticeable impact.

 

In our smaller lagoons the largest bass are usually 5-6 pounds, but in the small lake in that same community the largest bass are 10-12 pounds. While there may be other factors, the community does actively stock the larger lagoons and the small lake the biggest bass are only in the biggest body of water.

[Catt]

6 hours ago, A-Jay said:

My experience fishing in waters that hold trophy bass is limited relatively speaking.

The most effective approach for me has been to specifically target bigger bass.

Almost Always means long hours on the water & Way Less Bites, insert ' because they are rare'.

The other factor I've come to believe is Big Bass are Not "Smarter than little bass" - Nor are they 'conditioned to avoid being caught'.  They simply lead a life that exists away from anglers (not near the bank - except to spawn). 

 Only when I am able to put the right bait, in the right place & at the right time - am I able to catch one. 

It really is like a needle in a hay stack.  But figuring out which hay stacks they prefer really improves the odds.

 

Very well said ?

[Mobasser]

Big bass are caught less because they spend the majority of their time in places where the average angler doesn't fish. Also, in most bodies of water, they make up a very small % of the bass population. They've been looked at as an impossible quarry by many fisherman. The fact is their not impossible to pursue. If you look at folks who target big bass, they do the homework, perfect their baits and presentations, and study and learn the habits of big bass. I think for some, it's kind of a lonely pursuit. It takes time and a determined dedication. They may be the fisherman who come in with nothing, while others catch strings of smaller bass. But, when they score- all the work has paid off for them. It's hard, to say the least.

[Deleted account]

7 hours ago, FCPhil said:

I’m curious what your take is on this: I assume as bass grow, they become more effective predators. As they grow, they are capable of eating more and more of the fish in the pond (including smaller bass), their faster speed combined with their larger mouth make them harder for prey to escape and their are fewer similar size bass competing with them (for the larger prey). Therefore, as they grow, they become less desperate for food and can be “pickier” about their meals. They would not necessarily have to be smart, just less desperate for food (because it comes easier for them) and thus, less inclined to eat a lure that does not quite look like the prey they are used to.

 

They still eat lures different than their normal prey at times, just less often because they more readily can catch baitfish. 

 

Thoughts anyone?

Thought: Nonsense.

[Catt]

8 hours ago, FCPhil said:

I’m curious what your take is on this: I assume as bass grow, they become more effective predators. As they grow, they are capable of eating more and more of the fish in the pond (including smaller bass), their faster speed combined with their larger mouth make them harder for prey to escape and their are fewer similar size bass competing with them (for the larger prey). Therefore, as they grow, they become less desperate for food and can be “pickier” about their meals. They would not necessarily have to be smart, just less desperate for food (because it comes easier for them) and thus, less inclined to eat a lure that does not quite look like the prey they are used to.

 

They still eat lures different than their normal prey at times, just less often because they more readily can catch baitfish. 

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Given the choice of a 4" shad 10 feet away and a 8" shad 20 yards away the bass will choose the closest everytime!

 

Why?

 

The biological fact; minimum output maximum intake!

 

Big bass will ambush it's prey more often rather than chase it down!