Wire for DIY Tokyo rig?

[DropShotHotShot]

Seems like it would be easy to assemble these with EWG hood, split ring and swivel,  but am curious if anyone has found a good wire to use?

[the reel ess]

Paper clip, with a bullet weight. If it falls off, who cares? Here's one I made up but haven't used. I also considered one with this weight. It has some tiny rattles built-in.

[Big Swimbait]

$1.90 for 25 of these:

http://www.lurepartsonline.com/Online-Store/Wire-Shafts/Looped-End-Wire-Shafts.html

[Deeare]

Just connect a dipsey weight to the split ring and make a jika rig.  No need for the wire at all.   Vmc is catching fisherman at $4 each

 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/catpage-TTDSW.html?from=basres

[Bdnoble84]

Dropshot weights work as well. Correct me if im wrong but i think the purpose of the tokyo rig had to do with getting your bait of the bottom a couple of inches?

[J Francho]

Skip the wire.

 

[Fishingmickey]

1 hour ago, Bdnoble84 said:

Dropshot weights work as well. Correct me if im wrong but i think the purpose of the tokyo rig had to do with getting your bait of the bottom a couple of inches?

I think it is better then the Jika rig for that application. I'm wanting to get the bait off the bottom and out of the bottom algae growth. 

 

I am using this wire for my DIY's. I use a haywire twist to attach to the split ring and I'm still experimenting with different weights.  I think it will work well and make it any length you like. 

 

FM

 

[redmeansdistortion]

I've never fished a Tokyo rig, but seeing some replies in this thread made me think of something.  I make slinky weights for drift fishing steelhead and I feel they might make a nice component for a Tokyo-type rig.  Slinkies are nearly  snagless and made from 1/4" paracord and filled with lead or steel shot.  I use 3/8" steel shot for mine, with each ball weighing about 1/8oz.  You can buy large quantities of steel shot cheap, and a 100ft section of 1/4" paracord is less than $10.  You can make all you want cheap and it won't get hung up in heavy weeds or wood like a regular sinker does.  I think I'm going to try it once the ice is off of the water here.

 

Here's a good DIY tutorial https://www.fieldandstream.com/craft-steelhead-slinky-in-6-easy-steps#page-2

[Austinm]

Anyone tried safety wire?

[Munkin]

Do-It started to make a wire just for this recently. 

 

Allen 

[fishingtx]

 

On 1/27/2019 at 8:34 PM, Deeare said:

Just connect a dipsey weight to the split ring and make a jika rig.  No need for the wire at all.   Vmc is catching fisherman at $4 each

 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Water_Gremlin_Dipsey_Swivel_Casting_Weights/descpage-WGDS.html

vmc made them first so I don't want to hear that crap

[Happybeerbuzz]

On 1/26/2019 at 8:12 PM, Big Swimbait said:

$1.90 for 25 of these:

http://www.lurepartsonline.com/Online-Store/Wire-Shafts/Looped-End-Wire-Shafts.html

I use these as well. Also I have been experimenting with this style of snap swivel as well rather than a split ring and swivel.  It makes it easy to switch out preweighted wires and different baits already on hook. 
 

 

 

[MickD]

Cabelas offers inexpensive looped wire, too, and it works fine.  I don't like using hard wire because of the trouble I have finishing the loops off without leaving a sharp/hard end that I end up cutting my hands on.  The Lure Parts Online and Cabelas are nicely finished, and the cost is really not an issue.

[J Francho]

Why do you need wire for this again?  

[MickD]

19 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Why do you need wire for this again?

I like the wire in order to get more distance between the sinker (bottom) and the lure.  With the sinker linked directly to the hook the lure is more likely to snag or collect weeds/bottom debris.  I use it with 4 and 5 inch swim baits with slow steady retrieve and snapping them.  Wire about 3 inches long works great.

[J Francho]

2 minutes ago, MickD said:

With the sinker linked directly to the hook the lure is more likely to snag or collect weeds/bottom debris.

As opposed to?  The whole point of the swinging weight is to pull the bait through the weeds.  Seems like more hardware and mass would be worse.  This looks a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.  Some say the same about a Jika rig over a Texas Rig, though.  So, there's that.  I guess I don't get it.  It looks cool and DIY, too.  I don't see anything that would prevent or interfere with a bite, so it's all good.

[Happybeerbuzz]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

Why do you need wire for this again?  

Going through the weeds is one element, but it is not the only selling point.  

 

You can impart a little more action without moving the bait sort of like a dropshot, but not as much because it is only a few inches off the ground and the wire is rigid.  Also, you can rig it with a paddle tail and keep it on the bottom kind of like a wobble head only a few inches off the bottom.  I guess it could be more than a few inches if you used a longer wire, but that does not seem very popular.  I bought 6 inch long wire, but I have yet to not cut it down to about 3 inches or so.  

 

While a jika has everything connected by to the split ring allowing for freedom of movement, you can not really move the bait without moving the sinker.  

 

I am planning to play with this presentation a lot more on the delta once it heats up and the jerkbait bite dies down.  Wish me luck.  

[J Francho]

15 minutes ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

While a jika has everything connected by to the split ring allowing for freedom of movement, you can not really move the bait without moving the sinker.  

I'd tie up a bubba shot if I needed that.  No special hardware required.

[Happybeerbuzz]

35 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I'd tie up a bubba shot if I needed that.  No special hardware required.

You can, and you will get much more action, but it will be at the expense of a lot of punching ability.  

[J Francho]

3 minutes ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

You can, and you will get much more action, but it will be at the expense of a lot of punching ability.  

How so?  Are you saying the wire does something to help it get through the weeds?  I must be missing something, I thought it was gravity and mass of the sinker.

[MN Fisher]

^ Ya, I'm confused too. Jika, Tokyo - both are just 'high tech' versions of the bubba-shot...no advantage that I see.

[Happybeerbuzz]

37 minutes ago, J Francho said:

How so?  Are you saying the wire does something to help it get through the weeds?  I must be missing something, I thought it was gravity and mass of the sinker.

No. I never said that.  I said navigating weeds was just one of the elements of the Tokyo rig, but there were other benefits as well that it had over the jika rig. 

 

I am confused as well.  Just by looking at the two rigs, is it not self evident that one will keep the bait off the bottom a few more inches than the other?  I think that leader length can be meaningful which is why most people never  set up their dropshot or bubbashot with the weight one split ring's diameter below the hook.  

 

 

[J Francho]

With the Jika, you run a much lower risk of losing the weight, and it's just one self contained item to tie on, like a jig, no threading the tag, no attaching the weight, no wires, no fuss.  To be clear, I don't consider the Jika or the Tokyo rig even kissing cousins to a drop shot.  The function and bait delivery is closer to a Texas Rig - put the bait in the weeds where the fish are without bringing back a clump of weeds.  It's all just a device to penetrate weed cover, all the other positive and negatives are side effects of the rig.  Every rig is a compromise of some sort.  

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

^ Ya, I'm confused too. Jika, Tokyo - both are just 'high tech' versions of the bubba-shot...no advantage that I see.

 

8 minutes ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

No. I never said that.  I said navigating weeds was just one of the elements of the Tokyo rig, but there were other benefits as well that it had over the jika rig. 

 

I am confused as well.  Just by looking at the two rigs, is it not self evident that one will keep the bait off the bottom a few more inches than the other?  I think that leader length can be meaningful which is why most people never  set up their dropshot or bubbashot with the weight one split ring's diameter below the hook.  

 

 

In all three rigs, the bait swings freely from the weight, so that debate is moot.

 

Yes, you did say that the purpose of the wire was to aid in punching.  How is wire better?

 

You say that having the bait a few inches off the bottom makes a difference.  That's also a fair and valid point.  How is wire better? 

 

Those are the questions I wanted answers to.  

 

 

 

I've looked at this rig, and dismissed at as totally unnecessary, but if there's a compelling reason, I'll try it.

[Happybeerbuzz]

14 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Yes, you did say that the purpose of the wire was to aid in punching.  How is wire better?

 

Jika vs Tokyo rig

 

I said, "Going through the weeds is one element, but it is not the only selling point".  You took what I said out of context to imply that weedlessness was the totality of what I said when in fact I was expressing the exact opposite.  

 

"Every rig is a compromise of some sort."  That was my point all along.  The wire adds to the rig and you do not get the same benefits by taking the wire off.  

 

"You say that having the bait a few inches off the bottom makes a difference.  That's also a fair and valid point.  How is wire better?"  In some circumstances it is not better.  I am not sure I understand what you are asking.  Presentations where the bait rest on the bottom vs a presentation where the bait is suspended, even 3-4 inches is, well, different. 

[J Francho]

I'm not trying to take things out of context in order to imply anything.  I'm trying to isolate the points that are all mixed together.  It's just my analytical way of figuring things out.  Thanks for the answers.

 

13 minutes ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

Presentations where the bait rest on the bottom vs a presentation where the bait is suspended, even 3-4 inches is, well, different. 

The wire doesn't make anything suspend, neither does the dropper tag in a drop shot, nor does the pencil weight in a Jika.  I feel like that isn't really isn't the main purpose of the either the Jika or Tokyo rig.  It's a heck of a lot easier to tell that you have your bait off the bottom than trying to balance a pencil weight or weight on a wire, so if that was the difference, I guess I'd just tie a drop shot if that was the need.

 

18 minutes ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

The wire adds to the rig and you do not get the same benefits by taking the wire off.  

This is the part I'm getting at - there seems to be no benefit at all from the wire that I can see.  The only thing that might be better is if you use wire just a little longer than the weight and some kind of hollow, narrow weight that you could easily swap out the weights by bending the end.  

 

One point I should make.  Sometime around 12 years ago when I first tried Jika rigs in a casting pool at a show, I was putting a small fluke on the hook, and retrieving it with a darting action.  Both myself and the crowd thought it was pretty sweet, and I probably sold a bunch of Jika rigs that day.  I tried this many times in many waters, all with biting fish present, and did not get a bite.  I did hang up quite a bit, though, and anywhere there were weeds, it was a not so weedless as the usual vertical penetration approach that the Jika is so good at.  Not sure if that adds to this.