How much braid do you load on top of mono?

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

20 hours ago, Heartland said:

Please elaborate....

Wasting 2 pieces of line is twice as much waste as 1 piece of line.

[HOG727]

6 hours ago, kenmitch said:

I guess the word quality is subjective. Paying $30 for 150 yds of Smackdown braid to most of us would be considered foolish. Most users wouldn't even consider it due to it's price point.

 if your line cost 10 dollars a refill spool for 150yds, and your reel holds 150yds, your wasting 5 dollars by simply removing all the line off your reel vs taking off half and top-shotting 75 yads of new line.  Sorry you and your friends consider Seaguar foolish though.

 

[Columbia Craw]

Much learning hath made a man mad. 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

31 minutes ago, HOG727 said:

 if your line cost 10 dollars a refill spool for 150yds, and your reel holds 150yds, your wasting 5 dollars by simply removing all the line off your reel vs taking off half and top-shotting 75 yads of new line.  Sorry you and your friends consider Seaguar foolish though.

 

Telling ya you are wasting line using just 75yds instead of filling it completely with 150yds if the reel holds 150yds, simple math. 

 

IMO Smackdown is a foolish purchase overpriced for what you get. There are other lines that are quieter, stronger vs dia, yet cost less or get more per spool. 

[MN Fisher]

3 minutes ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

There are other lines that are quieter, stronger vs dia, yet cost less or get more per spool. 

I've been using Power Pro on my BC since...forever. Never had a problem with it and at half the price of Smackdown, I'm not going to be switching anytime in the foreseeable future. I also full-fill my BC with PP, no backing means I can use it past the 'magic' 75 yard point.

[LionHeart]

7 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

I've been using Power Pro on my BC since...forever. Never had a problem with it and at half the price of Smackdown, I'm not going to be switching anytime in the foreseeable future. I also full-fill my BC with PP, no backing means I can use it past the 'magic' 75 yard point.

No complaints with Power Pro here either.  I see no reason to use anything else.  As far as filling half the spool with cheap mono first, what can I say?  My frugality knows no bounds.

[Heartland]

8 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

Wasting 2 pieces of line is twice as much waste as 1 piece of line.

So I am trying to follow your logic with very limited detail.   I hear you say that if I cut a 150 yard spool of line into 2 75 yard rolls and spool two separate reels there is twice as much waste.  Is that the statement?   My mind is telling me there is no savings, the waste either comes from the middle or the ends, it's just a choice.

 

If you spool 75 yards of braid and typically makes casts of 60 yards then there is the potential for 15 yards waste, it will be less because of having to re-tie, but it makes for and easy number.  X2 = 30 yards, both at the ends of the 75 yard rolls.   150 yard spooled on, same cast distance, 60 yards, 90 yards unused, flip it, 60 yard casts, 30 yards in the middle unused.  What am I missing?  Seems like you just end up with a 30 yard +- piece of line relatively unused vs two 15 yard pieces.

 

 

 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

4 hours ago, Heartland said:

So I am trying to follow your logic with very limited detail.   I hear you say that if I cut a 150 yard spool of line into 2 75 yard rolls and spool two separate reels there is twice as much waste.  Is that the statement?   My mind is telling me there is no savings, the waste either comes from the middle or the ends, it's just a choice.

 

If you spool 75 yards of braid and typically makes casts of 60 yards then there is the potential for 15 yards waste, it will be less because of having to re-tie, but it makes for and easy number.  X2 = 30 yards, both at the ends of the 75 yard rolls.   150 yard spooled on, same cast distance, 60 yards, 90 yards unused, flip it, 60 yard casts, 30 yards in the middle unused.  What am I missing?  Seems like you just end up with a 30 yard +- piece of line relatively unused vs two 15 yard pieces.

 

 

 

 

Correct

 

Your mind is wrong. You are not wasting what is in the middle you will eventually use that line as you have break offs tie knots and such.

 

You are leaving out the piece you throw away once you get to the connection knot. Say 100 feet or so.

You dont want to let the connection knot cast out so you put on new line and waste 100 feet of line. If you do this for 2 75yd top shot reels you waste 200 feet of line vs just 100 feet on the reel you fully filled. 

 

 

[Crow Horse]

This is interesting.... I back all my spinning reel spools with mono and top off with braid....

 

 

[Heartland]

10 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

 

Correct

 

Your mind is wrong. You are not wasting what is in the middle you will eventually use that line as you have break offs tie knots and such.

 

And with that same logic you will eventually use the 15 yards  at the end of the 75 yard spool to break offs, tie knots and such.  I think we will have to disagree with each other on this.

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

1 hour ago, Heartland said:

And with that same logic you will eventually use the 15 yards  at the end of the 75 yard spool to break offs, tie knots and such.  I think we will have to disagree with each other on this.

We can disagree but you will still be wrong. You're just blinded by trying to rationalize your point. 

What dont you understand about wasting the amount of line once you throw out to where the connection knot interferes with the cast. Whatever that amount of line is it is doubled by splitting the spool in half. 75 yards on one reel 75 yards on another reel once you get to the connection knot on a cast your cast will be hindered.  This amount of line will then be wasted twice instead of just once if you had put on a full spool of line. 

In all three reels you will be backfilling to keep the spool at /near a full level as the braid gets used up. It will take longer to use the spool full of braid of course but you still will use it up to the same point as the 1/2 full spools of braid. You will use all but the amount of line that the knot starts hindering the cast which is the same amount as one of 75yard spools. But as you used 2 half spools you get double the waste as in prior examples 100' + 100' = 200' of wasted line vs just 100' from the single full spool.

 On the fully spooled reel you will get to use 350' of the 450' spool. On the two 75yd spools you will only get to use 250' of the line. You get 100 more feet of usable line out of the fully spooled reel.

 

 

 

[Heartland]

3 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

We can disagree but you will still be wrong. You're just blinded by trying to rationalize your point. 

What dont you understand about wasting the amount of line once you throw out to where the connection knot interferes with the cast. Whatever that amount of line is it is doubled by splitting the spool in half. 75 yards on one reel 75 yards on another reel once you get to the connection knot on a cast your cast will be hindered.  This amount of line will then be wasted twice instead of just once if you had put on a full spool of line. 

In all three reels you will be backfilling to keep the spool at /near a full level as the braid gets used up. It will take longer to use the spool full of braid of course but you still will use it up to the same point as the 1/2 full spools of braid. You will use all but the amount of line that the knot starts hindering the cast which is the same amount as one of 75yard spools. But as you used 2 half spools you get double the waste as in prior examples 100' + 100' = 200' of wasted line vs just 100' from the single full spool.

 On the fully spooled reel you will get to use 350' of the 450' spool. On the two 75yd spools you will only get to use 250' of the line. You get 100 more feet of usable line out of the fully spooled reel.

 

 

 

I hear you but I'm not buying it.   Most of my casts are 40 yards or less, many are much less.  I use braid for frogs and for pitching jigs.  Usually a whole lot shorter casts than 40 yards, many probably not more than 10 or 12.   I can honestly say that I can never remember reaching the tie knot prior to thinking that the braid was to the point it was ready for a change and I rarely spool more than about 55 yards of braid on top of the backing.   I think the point your making works well in theory but fails miserably in practical every day experience.  Your mileage may very, especially if you use braid as your primary line for all applications.

[Team9nine]

I had to read through this one a couple times, then think on it overnight, but have come to the conclusion that depending on how the full spool of line is handled, there are only 3 outcomes. One benefits the split concept argument Heartland mentions, one benefits QUAKEnSHAKES argument, and the third is that the two methods are identical (depends on how you backfill the full spool; but same waste between the two methods). Being on cell right now, I can't detail out the scenarios easily or quickly.

[fishwizzard]

On casting reels I use braid with I fill the reel up 100% with braid.  Then when the line starts looking lower then I want, I tie on whatever backer and fill the reel back up.  Then I take an old empty line spool and using a powerdrill and a old foam paint brush, run the line onto the spool.  I then take a second empty spool and run the line on that to get it turned around.  Then I re-spool it back onto my reel, filled up perfectly to the top.  When the line gets low again I do the same thing, trashing the backing and spooling fresh backing on to whatever amount fills the spool back up.  When I get to the point of having less then a full cast of braid on the reel I pull it off and then the old used braid becomes backing for reels I use floro/mono mainline on.  Circle of life and all that.

 

It sounds fussy but it only takes a minute or two.  For combos I use a lot I maybe have to do this once or twice a season.  

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, BaitFinesse said:

I understand.  If you fill 100% with braid and fish the line down to the last 100 feet you are wasting less line than if you filled halfway with braid over a backer and wasted the last 100 feet of the braid.  You would waste 100 get of line twice per filler spool of braid for a total of 200 feet of braid vs 100 feet.

 

This assumes we will fish our braid to the point that only 100 feet remains on the spool when filled 100% with braid.  To allow a reel's spool to get that low when filled 100% with braid would mean fishing the reel until the spool is nearly empty.  Most do not want their spools to get that low and would respool long before reaching that point throwing away whatever line remained on the spool.  Filling with a backer allows you only maintain a consumable portion of braid on the spool essentially increasing the arbor of the spool.  Filling 1/2 way with braid is less waste in the sense that the 1st half of the line filled onto the spool is never used be it a backer or straight braid.  By using a backer the backer is never discarded and is reused.  Filling 100% with braid would require whatever braid remained on the spool to be discarded once the fill level dropped below the angler's desired level with use.  I run 100% braid but use shallower spool so my IPT is not as adversely affected when low on line.

 

Unless I am mistaken Quake's argument is that the entirety of the spool is consumable down to the point where the reel casts down to the arbor and only then is the remaining line discarded.  

Yep, the loss of performance, casting ability, altered drag settings and relative gear ratio wouldn't justify keeping a full spool of braid on until you had almost nothing left. That is where Heartland's argument wins out in my analysis. Thanks for writing that up.

 

However, if you started with a full spool of braid, and then when you lost a certain amount, I calculated 15 yds., you simply add a 15 yd backer (mono) to another reel, attach the braid and wind onto the new reel. You are now back to full spool with braid and have 135 yds to play with. Now, you simply keep repeating every time a reel loses 15 yds  of braid, just adding that 15 yds to the next reel as the backer. So "reel 3" would be 30 yds of backer mono and then the remaining 120 yds of braid. Back to a full spool with plenty to play with. "reel 4", 45 yds of backer mono and 105 yds of braid. "Reel 5", 60 yds of mono backer and 90 yds of braid. Finally, "reel 6" is 75 yds of mono backer and 75 yards of remaining braid. Again, full spool of braid for the final time. Doing this, QUAKEnSHAKEs scenario easily wins out, as you could make a full spool of line last roughly 3X as long as cutting that spool into two halves to begin with.

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

4 hours ago, BaitFinesse said:

I understand.  If you fill 100% with braid and fish the line down to the last 100 feet you are wasting less line than if you filled halfway with braid over a backer and wasted the last 100 feet of the braid.  You would waste 100 feet of line twice per filler spool of braid for a total of 200 feet of braid vs 100 feet.

 

This assumes we will fish our braid to the point that only 100 feet remains on the spool when filled 100% with braid.  To allow a reel's spool to get that low when filled 100% with braid would mean fishing the reel until the spool is nearly empty.  Most do not want their spools to get that low and would respool long before reaching that point throwing away whatever line remained on the spool.  Filling with a backer allows you only maintain a consumable portion of braid on the spool essentially increasing the arbor of the spool.  Filling 1/2 way with braid is less waste in the sense that the 1st half of the line filled onto the spool is never used be it a backer or straight braid.  By using a backer the backer is never discarded and is reused.  Filling 100% with braid would require whatever braid remained on the spool to be discarded once the fill level dropped below the angler's desired level with use.  I run 100% braid but use shallower spool so my IPT is not as adversely affected when low on line.

 

Unless I am mistaken Quake's argument is that the entirety of the spool is consumable down to the point where the reel casts down to the arbor and only then is the remaining line discarded.  

Nope thats not it. See my highlighted words from my prior post below

 

3 hours ago, fishwizzard said:

On casting reels I use braid with I fill the reel up 100% with braid.  Then when the line starts looking lower then I want, I tie on whatever backer and fill the reel back up.  Then I take an old empty line spool and using a powerdrill and a old foam paint brush, run the line onto the spool.  I then take a second empty spool and run the line on that to get it turned around.  Then I re-spool it back onto my reel, filled up perfectly to the top.  When the line gets low again I do the same thing, trashing the backing and spooling fresh backing on to whatever amount fills the spool back up.  When I get to the point of having less then a full cast of braid on the reel I pull it off and then the old used braid becomes backing for reels I use floro/mono mainline on.  Circle of life and all that.

 

It sounds fussy but it only takes a minute or two.  For combos I use a lot I maybe have to do this once or twice a season.  

Thats the ticket you get it too. Except I dont trash the existing backing just put more on.

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Yep, the loss of performance, casting ability, altered drag settings and relative gear ratio wouldn't justify keeping a full spool of braid on until you had almost nothing left. That is where Heartland's argument wins out in my analysis. Thanks for writing that up.

 

However, if you started with a full spool of braid, and then when you lost a certain amount, I calculated 15 yds., you simply add a 15 yd backer (mono) to another reel, attach the braid and wind onto the new reel. You are now back to full spool with braid and have 135 yds to play with. Now, you simply keep repeating every time a reel loses 15 yds  of braid, just adding that 15 yds to the next reel as the backer. So "reel 3" would be 30 yds of backer mono and then the remaining 120 yds of braid. Back to a full spool with plenty to play with. "reel 4", 45 yds of backer mono and 105 yds of braid. "Reel 5", 60 yds of mono backer and 90 yds of braid. Finally, "reel 6" is 75 yds of mono backer and 75 yards of remaining braid. Again, full spool of braid for the final time. Doing this, QUAKEnSHAKEs scenario easily wins out, as you could make a full spool of line last roughly 3X as long as cutting that spool into two halves to begin with.

Yes, sort of, as I stated in prior post highlighted below. Though I use method as stated by fishwizard use same reel but take line off add backing put line back on same reel.

I knew this from the beginning

On 1/22/2019 at 8:26 PM, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

We can disagree but you will still be wrong. You're just blinded by trying to rationalize your point. 

What dont you understand about wasting the amount of line once you throw out to where the connection knot interferes with the cast. Whatever that amount of line is it is doubled by splitting the spool in half. 75 yards on one reel 75 yards on another reel once you get to the connection knot on a cast your cast will be hindered.  This amount of line will then be wasted twice instead of just once if you had put on a full spool of line. 

In all three reels you will be backfilling to keep the spool at /near a full level as the braid gets used up. It will take longer to use the spool full of braid of course but you still will use it up to the same point as the 1/2 full spools of braid. You will use all but the amount of line that the knot starts hindering the cast which is the same amount as one of 75yard spools. But as you used 2 half spools you get double the waste as in prior examples 100' + 100' = 200' of wasted line vs just 100' from the single full spool.

 On the fully spooled reel you will get to use 350' of the 450' spool. On the two 75yd spools you will only get to use 250' of the line. You get 100 more feet of usable line out of the fully spooled reel.

 

 

 

 

[HOG727]

On 1/21/2019 at 4:32 PM, LionHeart said:

When guys talk about adding distance with a baitcaster by bearing changes, using braid instead if mono for backing (which seems hilarious to me), etc., I have to wonder if they have brakes and spool tension completely off.  If not, start there.

 

If your brakes and spool tension are wide open and you still aren't satisfied, use less thumb pressure during the cast.  If your brakes are fully off, spool tension is fully loose, you use no thumb pressure during cast (and you are somehow not getting massive birdnest), and you still aren't casting far enough, there is probably something mechanically wrong with your reel.

 

Not trying to be a wise guy, but claiming that using braid as backing adds casting distance seems extremely silly to me.

I'm talking bait casters. This claim about braid backing adding distance  seemed dubious to me also.  So I bought a scale to test the weight claim.  My initial reading is this: on my Curado 200Is', a spool filled all braid weighed 24 grams and full mono weighed 32.  so half spool you could save 4-5 grams (about 20-25% spool weight) As you move toward lighter lures, you can see what the Japanese will do to save that much weight.   

[fishwizzard]

33 minutes ago, HOG727 said:

I'm talking bait casters. This claim about braid backing adding distance  seemed dubious to me also.  So I bought a scale to test the weight claim.  My initial reading is this: on my Curado 200Is', a spool filled all braid weighed 24 grams and full mono weighed 32.  so half spool you could save 4-5 grams (about 20-25% spool weight) As you move toward lighter lures, you can see what the Japanese will do to save that much weight.   

It absolutely helps when trying to cast lighter lures, I notice less difference when lure weight gets around 1/2oz.  

 

It would be great if more reels had shallow spool options but braid seems like the lightest way to fill up space on a spool. 

[LionHeart]

1 hour ago, HOG727 said:

I'm talking bait casters. This claim about braid backing adding distance  seemed dubious to me also.  So I bought a scale to test the weight claim.  My initial reading is this: on my Curado 200Is', a spool filled all braid weighed 24 grams and full mono weighed 32.  so half spool you could save 4-5 grams (about 20-25% spool weight) As you move toward lighter lures, you can see what the Japanese will do to save that much weight.   

Very interesting indeed.  I guess a few grams would matter if you are casting a very light lure but not totally convinced a spinning rod wouldn't serve an angler better casting such a lure.

 

Inertia works both ways.  A heavier spool may take more to get going, but will stay going longer.  I've never really done any experiments with trying to change the weight of my spool, so maybe it does have merit.  I just can't imagine it would be much.

[fishwizzard]

2 hours ago, LionHeart said:

 

Inertia works both ways.  A heavier spool may take more to get going, but will stay going longer.  

The reason casting reels have brakes is to control the spool’s inertia, there is no benefit to ever having a heavier spool. Having it spin longer isnt going to propel the lure further, it will just increase the likelihood of a backlash at any given braking force. 

 

 

[MN Fisher]

1 hour ago, fishwizzard said:

The reason casting reels have brakes is to control the spool’s inertia, there is no benefit to ever having a heavier spool. Having it spin longer isnt going to propel the lure further, it will just increase the likelihood of a backlash at any given braking force. 

 

 

This times infinity. A heavier spool that keeps spinning after the lure hits the water is a BAD thing.

[LionHeart]

3 hours ago, fishwizzard said:

The reason casting reels have brakes is to control the spool’s inertia, there is no benefit to ever having a heavier spool. Having it spin longer isnt going to propel the lure further, it will just increase the likelihood of a backlash at any given braking force. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

This times infinity. A heavier spool that keeps spinning after the lure hits the water is a BAD thing.

From the response I'd have to say I didn't do a great job of stating my point.  

 

See my previous post (my 2nd on page 1)