How necessary is a baitcast rig?

[NYWayfarer]

14 minutes ago, DogBone_384 said:

I use spinning gear at night and when it's very windy.

Spinning gear is a great choice when it's windy.

 

Spinning gear will always have a spot in my arsenal. I love a small spinning reel and light to medium light rod when fishing for Trout and Sunfish.

[MIbassyaker]

I have been using baitcasting for three years after being a lifelong spinning-exclusive.  I now use them about half and half. Here is what I have found:

 

baitcasting has a huge advantage casting and retrieving efficiency with heavier lures and heavier line (say, over 10lb test). While you can use heavy spinning gear with braid, being able to palm a reel is much less awkward than managing a heavy spinning reel. I also find it advantageous for cast-and -crank presentations, as spinning reels add a twist in the line every time the bail goes around. so if you're spending a lot of time cranking the reel, you add line twist on spinning fast. This isn't a problem with baitcasting because there is no twist. A third advantage is thumb control of the spool, which makes it more efficient to make a series of pitches one after another

 

Where spinning has advantage is casting lighter lures and the ability to use much smaller-diameter line that would dig in on baitcaster. Also, because the line comes freely off the spool, baits fall with very little resistance, which makes spinning very good for vertical presentations, espeically if working a vertical drop from some distance away. I also like spinning for retrieves where I am not cranking constantly, especially if I'm fishing at some depth. I use spinning for all light baits and light line applications, and I even prefer it for casting texas rigged plastics whenever I'm fishing deeper than about 5 feet.

 

One thing I do not see is any clear indication that baitcasters are inherently more accurate than spinning. I suspect casting accuracy is determined much more by practice level than by any inherent property of the gear. I have long experience with a spinning gear and am highly accurate. I can get close to that level of accuracy sometimes with a baitcaster, but no with every rod, not consistently, and certainly not at longer distances.

 

 

 

 

 

[Pikeman12]

34 minutes ago, Gundog said:

These days lure companies make lures in all sizes and weights, so a baitcaster isn't necessary. I got a friend I fish with that only uses spinning gear and he catches just as many fish as I do. Never more, cause that would be wrong. 

I feel you guys. I like to pack real light since I’m usually hiking the rivers. So if I can get away with carrying 2 rods, a medium spinning and a medium heavy baitcaster, that would be perfect

[redmeansdistortion]

11 minutes ago, MIbassyaker said:

One thing I do not see is any clear indication that baitcasters are inherently more accurate than spinning. I suspect casting accuracy is determined much more by practice level than by any inherent property of the gear. I have long experience with a spinning gear and am highly accurate. I can get close to that level of accuracy sometimes with a baitcaster, but no with every rod, not consistently, and certainly not at longer distances.

 

 

 

 

 

I've always wondered what the knock against spinning gear being inaccurate was all about.  Like you, I'm pretty accurate with a spinning setup as well.  When I want my bait to drop I just bend my index finger and down she goes.  The only time I really had an issue was using too stiff of a line, it just wanted to jump off the spool.  That was completely my fault choosing the wrong line for the way I fish.

[Jrob78]

If you fish spinning gear only, how do you fish say, a 1/2oz double willow spinnerbait or a deep diving crankbait or pitch a bait into cover with 3/8oz-3/4oz weight or a work a Zara Spook or a hollow body frog or a football jig and trailer? 

 

There are so many baits that don't lend themselves to spinning gear at all. I'm sure you can find a spinning rod strong enough to do those things but the combo is going to weigh twice what comparably powered baitcast combo would weigh and the awkwardness of trying to fish and cast those baits with spinning gear seems so inefficient. 

 

Maybe you don't employ any of those techniques and don't fish in waters where heavier line and heavier baits are necessary. I am in TX and I am sure our fishing here is much different than the northern smallmouth waters many of you fish. 

[A-Jay]

Doing The Right Thing, at The Right Time, in The Right Place can often produce above average results.

 How one goes about it, may be a matter of personal preference.

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 12:28 PM, Jrob78 said:

If you fish spinning gear only, how do you fish say, a 1/2oz double willow spinnerbait or a deep diving crankbait or pitch a bait into cover with 3/8oz-3/4oz weight or a work a Zara Spook or a hollow body frog or a football jig and trailer? 

 

There are so many baits that don't lend themselves to spinning gear at all. I'm sure you can find a spinning rod strong enough to do those things but the combo is going to weigh twice what comparably powered baitcast combo would weigh and the awkwardness of trying to fish and cast those baits with spinning gear seems so inefficient. 

 

Maybe you don't employ any of those techniques and don't fish in waters where heavier line and heavier baits are necessary. I am in TX and I am sure our fishing here is much different than the northern smallmouth waters many of you fish. 

Topwater, including walking baits, on spinning gear works for me. 

A-Jay

[Jrob78]

2 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Doing The Right Thing, at The Right Time, in The Right Place can often produce above average results.

 How one goes about, it may be a matter of personal preference.

Topwater, including walking baits, on spinning gear works for me.

 

I completely agree that whatever works for someone is great, I'm not here to say anyone is doing anything wrong. There are no rules in fishing. I'm sure people would think I'm crazy for throwing a shaky head or drop shot or weightless worm or whatever on casting gear. 

[A-Jay]

Just now, Jrob78 said:

I completely agree that whatever works for someone is great, I'm not here to say anyone is doing anything wrong. There are no rules in fishing. I'm sure people would think I'm crazy for throwing a shaky head or drop shot or weightless worm or whatever on casting gear. 

Yup ~ 

A-Jay

[Pikeman12]

25 minutes ago, Jrob78 said:

If you fish spinning gear only, how do you fish say, a 1/2oz double willow spinnerbait or a deep diving crankbait or pitch a bait into cover with 3/8oz-3/4oz weight or a work a Zara Spook or a hollow body frog or a football jig and trailer? 

 

There are so many baits that don't lend themselves to spinning gear at all. I'm sure you can find a spinning rod strong enough to do those things but the combo is going to weigh twice what comparably powered baitcast combo would weigh and the awkwardness of trying to fish and cast those baits with spinning gear seems so inefficient. 

 

Maybe you don't employ any of those techniques and don't fish in waters where heavier line and heavier baits are necessary. I am in TX and I am sure our fishing here is much different than the northern smallmouth waters many of you fish. 

Well I am in the northern Illinois area and we do have a lot of areas with tough cover and Lilly pads and weeds. Which is why I figured a med heavy would be good. I generally don’t throw anything over 1/2 oz, but now I might be looking to start, I am considering a baitcaster. I was just wondering if me using spinning gear would make it a lot tougher for me. 

[MIbassyaker]

1 hour ago, Jrob78 said:

If you fish spinning gear only, how do you fish say, a 1/2oz double willow spinnerbait or a deep diving crankbait or pitch a bait into cover with 3/8oz-3/4oz weight or a work a Zara Spook or a hollow body frog or a football jig and trailer?

 

Use an MH or heavy spinning rod, which is what I used for every one of these things before I started using a baitcaster. The limitations of spinning for these things are more about awkwardness than power.

 

The places I usually fish are probably much more similar to yours than they are to a typical smallmouth lake.

[Koz]

5 hours ago, BigAngus752 said:

There is a learning curve with this...but I fixed that by buying left-handed baitcasters. 

 

My son bought a LH baitcasting reel and I tried it out a few weeks ago and it just didn't feel right - kind of like when I bought my first LH baitcaster after all of those years fishing with RH spinning.

 

The one thing that caught me off guard when I first bought my RH baitcaster was when I caught my first 4-5 pounder on that setup. Since my right hand is my dominant hand I felt weak horsing in the fish with my left hand holding the rod.

[Deleted account]

1 hour ago, Jrob78 said:

If you fish spinning gear only, how do you fish say, a 1/2oz double willow spinnerbait or a deep diving crankbait or pitch a bait into cover with 3/8oz-3/4oz weight or a work a Zara Spook or a hollow body frog or a football jig and trailer? 

 

There are so many baits that don't lend themselves to spinning gear at all. I'm sure you can find a spinning rod strong enough to do those things but the combo is going to weigh twice what comparably powered baitcast combo would weigh and the awkwardness of trying to fish and cast those baits with spinning gear seems so inefficient. 

 

Maybe you don't employ any of those techniques and don't fish in waters where heavier line and heavier baits are necessary. I am in TX and I am sure our fishing here is much different than the northern smallmouth waters many of you fish. 

Why would a spinning rod with the same Power and action as a BC be so much heavier? Oh yeah, those huge guides...  

 

[Jrob78]

21 minutes ago, MIbassyaker said:

 

Use an MH or heavy spinning rod, which is what I used for every one of these things before I started using a baitcaster. The limitations of spinning for these things are more about awkwardness than power.

 

The places I usually fish are probably much more similar to yours than they are to a typical smallmouth lake.

 

17 minutes ago, reason said:

Why would a spinning rod with the same Power and action as a BC be so much heavier? Oh yeah, those huge guides...  

 

I was mostly under the impression that there weren't many bass spinning rods in heavy enough powers to throw baits that would normally be thrown on a heavy powered baitcaster and the accompanying spinning reel would have to be very large to handle large diameter line that isn't braid. That's where my weight comment comes from. I also freely admit that I don't really know, which is why I asked the question in the first place. 

[Bass Junke]

6 hours ago, redmeansdistortion said:

I learned on an old Shakespeare direct drive knuckle buster given to me by my grandfather when I was a kid 30 some years back.  No fancy level wind tech, no bearings, no brake, no drag, just a spool tension knob.  I placed a bucket in the yard and tied on a 3/4oz sinker and had at it.  I got some nasty bird nests early on, but got fairly good after a few days of practice.  I feel learning on such a primitive reel made me able to pick up any baitcaster and fish it effectively.  The reels made the last 60 years are far more advanced than what I learned on, but the simplicity and lack of 'training wheels' of the knuckle buster made me great at spool control.  I still fish that reel from time to time.  Nothing like having a steelhead make a run for it and the only drag you have is your thumb.  Such a raw and unadultered feeling.

When I was a kid my dad gave me a reel that was not even as refined as redmeansdistortion's was. It was basically a deep sea reel. No brakes, no drag and no line guide. Not only did my thumb have to learn to feather the reel pretty quick, I had to use my thumb and index finger to weave the line back and forth on the spool. I cursed my father for years for buying me that until the day I bought a baitcaster. I felt like Ralph Macchio, wax on wax off. Needless to say the learning curve for my first baitcaster was not so steep thanks to Mr Miyagi ( my dad). 

IMO the most difficult thing to learn with a baitcaster is casting. What makes it even more difficult is having to learn to work the rod and crank the handle with hands you are not used to. I am quite happy the fishing world is a little backwards when it comes to baitcasters, I am a lefty and enjoy the vast selection of right handed baitcaster speed options. So Pikeman if you decide to go with a baitcaster don't make the learning curve so steep get a lefty.

[813basstard]

Throw what you have confidence in. Work at what you don’t have confidence in. 

I throw jigs on spinning gear, 8 ft rod and braid no leader and haven’t had issues catchin’em. 

Contrary to what most think, it’s not the feeling with the right hand that’s funky (to right handlers) it’s working the rod with the left hand/arm. 

I throw both casting and spinning every time all the time. These two didn’t seem to care

[Pikeman12]

So what size lures separate finesse from not? Would it be everything under a half oz? I plan on getting a lefty like I did with my catfish reel which is a round shimano Cardiff. I was planning on just going with a mh duckett with a pflueger baitcaster reel

[gim]

Like several people have mentioned, the more tools you have in your tool box, the better equipped you'll be.  And the better equipped you are, the better chance of success.

 

A lot of people that try a BC for the first time fail and have problems.  The key it to keep trying and practicing.  You're simply not going to pick one up and master it your first time.  I have friends who tried them and failed so they don't use them and when I fish with them in specific situations they are at a disadvantage.

 

Generally speaking, spinning is for lighter presentations and/or vertical presentations.  Bait casting is for heavier presentations and/or horizontal presentations.

[redmeansdistortion]

39 minutes ago, Bass Junke said:

When I was a kid my dad gave me a reel that was not even as refined as redmeansdistortion's was. It was basically a deep sea reel. No brakes, no drag and no line guide. Not only did my thumb have to learn to feather the reel pretty quick, I had to use my thumb and index finger to weave the line back and forth on the spool. I cursed my father for years for buying me that until the day I bought a baitcaster. I felt like Ralph Macchio, wax on wax off. Needless to say the learning curve for my first baitcaster was not so steep thanks to Mr Miyagi ( my dad). 

IMO the most difficult thing to learn with a baitcaster is casting. What makes it even more difficult is having to learn to work the rod and crank the handle with hands you are not used to. I am quite happy the fishing world is a little backwards when it comes to baitcasters, I am a lefty and enjoy the vast selection of right handed baitcaster speed options. So Pikeman if you decide to go with a baitcaster don't make the learning curve so steep get a lefty.

A lot of surf fishermen use baitcasters with no level wind.  They do this for distance.  It's quite a sight watching a surf fisherman cast an Abu 6500 CT down to the knot.  They launch those 4oz baits over 200yd, and sometimes even reach 300yd.  The plug fishermen don't fish the CT reels since they need the level wind to work their plugs, but bait fishermen like to forgo the level wind.

[islandbass]

Another critical thing to consider!!!!!!!!

 

Choose a casting reel with the retrieve on the same side your spinning reel handle is. 

You readily admit you’ve been spinning for years so if you retrieve left handed, get a left handed casting reel ...

 

The type of reprogramming required to get casting down opposite handed is not something to focus on when learning to use a casting reel for the first time.

 

I will wager a Rapala size 5 floating minnow that you will prefer by 10 country miles a casting reel with a retrieve on the same side you’re already accustomed. 

[Mike L]

6 hours ago, Jrob78 said:

It's pretty funny. I use spinning gear about once or twice or year, mainly because I own it so I might as well use it. Spinning gear offers nothing that I can't do better with baitcasting gear, including ultra light fishing. I hate spinning gear and don't care if I ever use it.

 

My point is, use what works for you but don't limit yourself to one thing without at least seeing what the other has to offer.

Exactly!

You beat me to it. 

 

I got a spinning combo somewhere that I used when I started the kids fishing and took it away. 

I bought them thier own so they can use both if and when they ever felt the need. 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[WRB]

Bass anglers are a unusual breed of fishermen and only adopted spinning tackle country wide about a decade ago for finesse presentations do to the light line spinning reels excel with. That doesn't mean spinning tackle can't be used with heavier lines, they make salt water spinning reels and rods that cast 30 lb mono effectively, they are bigger reels. Bill Murphy the author of In Pursuit of Gaint Bass used special custom spinning rods and salt water size spinning reels so he could cast unweighted live crawdads and split shot weighted soft platic worms using 15lb to  20 lb mono. Bill knew how to cast baitcasting reels and believed the over size spinning tackle gave him an advantage for his specific presentations.

I am not a fan of spinning tackle for general bass fishing and prefer baitcasting reels but use spinning tackle for finesse applications like most other bass anglers do. Why....that what I have always used and very comfortable with both baitcasting and spinning tackle.

Use what you like to use.

Tom

[redmeansdistortion]

17 minutes ago, WRB said:

Bass anglers are a unusual breed of fishermen and only adopted spinning tackle country wide about a decade ago for finesse presentations do to the light line spinning reels excel with.

I have some old In-Fisherman magazines from about '91 or '92 that have full articles about finesse bass fishing with spinning tackle.  A couple of them even go into detail about similar tactics for pike fishing.  If I remember right, the train of thought at that time was to throw finesse baits for fish that were slow to bite or when fishing cold water.  We have come a long way since and methods and tactics change as we learn more.

[Pikeman12]

So up to what weight of the lure is it considered finesse fishing? 

[MN Fisher]

48 minutes ago, WRB said:

Bass anglers are a unusual breed of fishermen and only adopted spinning tackle country wide about a decade ago for finesse presentations do to the light line spinning reels excel with.

I am not a fan of spinning tackle for general bass fishing and prefer baitcasting reels but use spinning tackle for finesse applications like most other bass anglers do. Why....that what I have always used and very comfortable with both baitcasting and spinning tackle.

Use what you like to use.

Tom

I used Spinning tackle from the beginning as that's what I grew up using for panfish and trout. Adding bass to my 'targets' didn't change my habits. I only added a baitcaster when my dad decided, after an accident at work, that he wasn't going to fish anymore and gave me his rod/reel - my Ambassdeur 500R that I just retired.

For me, heavier lures or heavy cover fishing (pitching/flipping/frogging) will be done with my two baitcasters. The rest of my fishing will be with my spinning gear

7 minutes ago, Pikeman12 said:

So up to what weight of the lure is it considered finesse fishing? 

I would consider 3/16 to maybe 1/4 to be the limit for finesse work.

 

Personally - my finesse rod will be relegated to 1/8 oz or less. Above that I will go to my medium spinning rig.

[redmeansdistortion]

23 minutes ago, Pikeman12 said:

So up to what weight of the lure is it considered finesse fishing? 

I've always thought of it as sub 1/4oz when it comes to bass.