Small Ratio Reels

[Eric J]

I picked up an Okuma Stratus at a ridiculous price. Really had no choice ;). It's a smaller ratio than I'm used to- 5.0:1. I figure it might be good for finesse fishing. Anyone use spinners that reel this slow? Any thoughts?

 

Eric J

[Russ E]

 

20 years ago there were not many reels faster than that. We still caught a lot of fish.

i personally no longer own anything under 6.3 to 1.

 

generally the lower gear ratios are used for deep diving crankbaits. you can crank all day without wearing your wrist and hand out. I don't do  a lot of deep cranking on Kansas stained lakes, so I no longer had the need for the slower ratios.

[jimmyjoe]

   Like I've said b4, old man told me that my lure was goin' twice as fast as it should. Slow down, catch more fish. It worked then and it works now. Slower retrieve ratio is one of the best ways to do that, whether you're fishing soft plastic, cranks, spoons or spinnerbaits. Smoother feel, too.    jj

[Paul Roberts]

So its a spinning reel? 

 

Spool size will matter. I'd look at IPT (inches/turn). I find anything down near 20" is... near useless (unless maybe the rod is 8ft or longer). It has to do with keeping the line tight on fish, mostly. This is often the biggest problem with some UL spinning reels. Those little toy-sized ones are... toys.

 

Also, a buddy of mine loved his closed-face under-spin reel for small stream trout fishing. It was mighty slow. One day, a hot-to-trot big brown followed my spinner up from the depths of a big pool, but turned away. It was a race between my buddy and I to get our spinners back out there. I won, by a long shot. Stuff like that sticks in your mind, or your craw, depending on which reel you were using.

[Russ E]

My bad. I thought it was a baitcaster.

depending on the reel size a 5 to 1 spinning reel will bring in just as much line as a 6.3 to 1 baitcaster.

All but 2 of my 2000 size spinning reels are only 5.2 to 1. they bring in around 25 IPT . 

my 6.3 to 1 baitcasters bring in around 26 IPT. not much of a difference.

[J.Vincent]

17 hours ago, Eric J said:

I picked up an Okuma Stratus at a ridiculous price. Really had no choice ;). It's a smaller ratio than I'm used to- 5.0:1. I figure it might be good for finesse fishing. Anyone use spinners that reel this slow? Any thoughts?

 

Eric J

I own two of the Okuma Stratus S25 and they are 5 to 1 gearing. They are a very compact spinning reel and work well for Bitsy Bug Jigs, Shaky Heads and Drop Shots on 6ft6 Medium Fast Spinning Rods. I think they recover 25 inches of line per turn 

[Bluebasser86]

I have some 5.0:1 spinning reels that I use for smaller crankbaits, jerkbaits, and some smaller plastics. 

[gilkeybr]

I wonder why reel manufacturers insist on using gear ratio for their publications?  IPT is a much more useful piece of information.  

 

For Comparison:

Daiwa Pixy - 6.8:1 - 24 IPT

Shimano Tranx - 5.8:1 - 30 IPT

 

This is an extreme example, but illustrates how gear ratio can be misleading

[MN Fisher]

12 minutes ago, gilkeybr said:

IPT is a much more useful piece of information.  

IPT depends on two variables.

 - What's the diameter of the spool?

 - When was the measurement taken? Empty spool, half-full spool, full spool, or is it an average?

 

Gear ratio is a constant.

[Eric J]

17 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

IPT depends on two variables.

 - What's the diameter of the spool?

 - When was the measurement taken? Empty spool, half-full spool, full spool, or is it an average?

 

Gear ratio is a constant.

Not to get overly technical but... While Gear Ratio is a constant the IPT will continue to change based on how full the spool is. So then, how accurate to how much line is reeled in is gear ratio?

[MN Fisher]

7 minutes ago, Eric J said:

So then, how accurate to how much line is reeled in is gear ratio?

It isn't. It gets even worse if you get a 3rd party spool to replace the original. If the new spool doesn't have the exact same specs as the original, the IPT will be different than the rated one.

 

Gear ratio will tell you how fast the spool spins on retrieve. This remains constant no matter the spec of the spool or how much line is on the spool.

 

IPT is constantly changing - not knowing at what point it was measured by the manufacturer, you have no idea what the actual IPT is at various spool-fill points.

 

If the spool is 1/2" deep, then the difference in IPT between an empty spool and a full spool is 3.14" per turn.

[fishwizzard]

Eh, I would rather just have them prominently list the ITP for a full spool, which is usefull info to extrapolate from.  Gear ratio alone doesnt give any info on how much line a reel will pick up per crank.  

 

I also wish line manufactures would list lines by diameter and raw breaking strength, but that aint gonna happen either. 

[WRB]

Gear ratio is rated low to high, not small to large.

Shimano 1000 series spinning reels are only 5.0:1 yet rated 26" IPT. You can't compare small diameter bait casting reel spools to larger size spinning reel spools, IPT is all about circumference or the distance around the spool, spool length and spool line capacity.

Tom

[Darren.]

1000 size Stradics are 6.0:1, FWIW....

 

Great answers above re: inches per turn, low-high.

[WRB]

9 minutes ago, Darren. said:

1000 size Stradics are 6.0:1, FWIW....

 

Great answers above re: inches per turn, low-high.

I believe the Sedona is still 5.0:1 RPT of 26", according to Shimano's tech info. Stratic 1000 @ 6.0:1 RPT is 31", small fast reel!

The OP can look up his Okuma reel data.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Team9nine]

17 hours ago, Paul Roberts said:

So its a spinning reel? 

 

Spool size will matter. I'd look at IPT (inches/turn). I find anything down near 20" is... near useless (unless maybe the rod is 8ft or longer). It has to do with keeping the line tight on fish, mostly. This is often the biggest problem with some UL spinning reels. Those little toy-sized ones are... toys.

 

Also, a buddy of mine loved his closed-face under-spin reel for small stream trout fishing. It was mighty slow. One day, a hot-to-trot big brown followed my spinner up from the depths of a big pool, but turned away. It was a race between my buddy and I to get our spinners back out there. I won, by a long shot. Stuff like that sticks in your mind, or your craw, depending on which reel you were using.

This ^^

 

You may not realize it at first if you don't have a faster reel with higher IPT to compare to, but it makes a big difference. See what IPT is for that particular model; probably low to mid 20s. Will it work - yes. Will it be ideal - no.

[Heartland]

4 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

It isn't. It gets even worse if you get a 3rd party spool to replace the original. If the new spool doesn't have the exact same specs as the original, the IPT will be different than the rated one.

 

Gear ratio will tell you how fast the spool spins on retrieve. This remains constant no matter the spec of the spool or how much line is on the spool.

 

IPT is constantly changing - not knowing at what point it was measured by the manufacturer, you have no idea what the actual IPT is at various spool-fill points.

 

If the spool is 1/2" deep, then the difference in IPT between an empty spool and a full spool is 3.14" per turn.

For myself I would say that it is not as important to know the exact IPT, just that if I have two reels, one a 25 IPT and one a 30 IPT, I will always know that if all things are equal the 30 will always be the faster reel.  You can not assume that using gear ratio.

 

[Paul Roberts]

6 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

IPT depends on two variables.

 - What's the diameter of the spool?

 - When was the measurement taken? Empty spool, half-full spool, full spool, or is it an average?

 

Gear ratio is a constant.

Moot point, I think. What matters is how fast we can retrieve line when we're fishing. If that matters to us, then... we should not fish with half a spool. If we do plan on having our spool half full... then maybe gear ratio is our number. Then again, I don't think we can get an IPT number from an empty spool.  

 

More seriously, we'd have to lose a lot of line, before it affected our IPT appreciably. By then we'd be cursing about how close we now have to get to that lunker's hidey-hole, to get our lure in there.

 

[fishwizzard]

1 minute ago, Paul Roberts said:

 

You'd have to lose a lot of line, before it affected your IPT appreciably. By then we'd be cursing about how close we now have to get to that lunker's hidey-hole, to get our lure in there.

 

I fish with mostly 1016 sized Daiwa spools, so like 100y/14lb line.  At the end of a long bomb cast with a lure like a toad that needs a min speed to stay on top I will have to reel faster then I do as the lure gets closer to me. It’s not a huge speed increase but it’s enough to be annoying if I am doing it all day.  

 

ITP drop off is very easy to test but I have never gotten around to doing it. 

[Paul Roberts]

37 minutes ago, fishwizzard said:

I fish with mostly 1016 sized Daiwa spools, so like 100y/14lb line.  At the end of a long bomb cast with a lure like a toad that needs a min speed to stay on top I will have to reel faster then I do as the lure gets closer to me. It’s not a huge speed increase but it’s enough to be annoying if I am doing it all day.  

 

ITP drop off is very easy to test but I have never gotten around to doing it. 

Would be interesting to know. However, it would also be pretty much academic. If it were me, I'd be putting that 14lb mono on a bigger spool. Or, as I mostly do now, go to braid.

 

I actually have two spinning reels I've used 14lb mono on -they are both mega-spooled: a US Reels 240, and an old (but still good as new) Quick 440N. (That old Quick will still be good as new when my great-great-grandkids get it.) I think I get somewhere near 40ipt out of that thing. I actually back-reeled Chinooks with it -comfortably. It will also skip a Cordell Spot across the surface if I get too excited burnin' it. 

 

 

 

[WRB]

The changing IPT as a spool empties line during a long cast is real. How much the IPT drops off depends on line capacity. Wider spools hold more line then arrow spools of the same diameter with the same diameter arbor. 

Spinning reels operate with a fixed spool, the line is pulled off by the lure weight. If the line isn't close to the spinning reel spool lip the doesn't come off over the lip easily, therefore 1/2 empty or 1/2 full spinning reel spools stop the line. For this reason longer spinning spools cast better then narrow spools, increased line capacity. The other method is to increase the spool diameter, this was the US Reel design; over size diameter spools. Good design that solved 2 spinning reel problems; reduced line twist and increase capacity. As a side the IPT was increased with the larger diameter spool. 

Baitcasting reels have a revolving spool, not a fixed spool, line is pulled off by spinning the rotating spool and the line slows do to the capacity being reduced; less line comming off with each rotation because the circumference is being reduced. 

I measured my 100 size baitcasting reel IPT full of 12 lb FC  @ 26" and after casting 50 yards @16", the gear ratio was 6.3:1. My 8:1 gear ratio size 100 was 33" full and after casting 50 yards dropped to 20". 

I can't cast a 1000 or 2500 size spinning reel 50 yards using 8 lb FC or 12 lb braid, the spool is too small and the lip stops the line comming off unless the weight is heavier then I fish with. I don't believe you can cast far enough to impact the IPT severely with a fresh water bass size spinning reel.

 

Tom

 

 

[MAN]

Just curious, but when you get to the point where you are worried about a possible 3-5 IPT difference between 2 reels..are you overthinking fishing? Not trying to be a smart@ss...honest question. 

[Paul Roberts]

18 minutes ago, MAN said:

Just curious, but when you get to the point where you are worried about a possible 3-5 IPT difference between 2 reels..are you overthinking fishing? Not trying to be a smart@ss...honest question. 

Yes, I'd say so. Except... when it gets down so low that it becomes impractical. My first response to the OP was simply to say... avoid a "toy" reel regardless of cost. 5:1 is AOK, provided the spool is large enough. If it's an UL or L reel with a tiny spool, I'd find out what the IPT (full) is. If its a "bass-sized" reel (~2500 up), I'd figure it will be fishable (for line diameters appropriate to a 2500 size reel).

 

I bought two UL reels this year. Spool diameter is critical for such reels. One I bought at a shop where I could see the spool size. The other I bought on-line and looked at IPT to be sure I wasn't getting a "toy". Again, I want 24" give or take. That I can fish with. There are plenty of little spinning reels (and most spin-cast reels) that come in under 20". That makes things darn hard to fish with, in terms of presentation, and fighting fish. Not to mention racing your buddy to that BIG brown trout!

[WRB]

If your average cast is under 25 yards IPT is minimal. When you make longer casts 40 to 50 yards the IPT becomes and issue  because you can't reel fast enough to control a big bass using the average size bass reel.

Off topic but I use 300 & 400 size baitcasting reels to recover line fast enough using big swimbaits after a strike even though retreiving the lure very slowly. The reason is 300 & 400 size reel has a larger diameter wider spool with higher line capacity that doesn't impact IPT dramatically after making a long cast. The same is true using deep diving crankbaits, you don't want to reel fast to get the lure diving then slow down as it gets closer to the boat, impossible to control the lures pace.

Tom

[GeekOutdoors]

42 minutes ago, WRB said:

If your average cast is under 25 yards IPT is minimal. When you make longer casts 40 to 50 yards the IPT becomes and issue  because you can't reel fast enough to control a big bass using the average size bass reel.

Off topic but I use 300 & 400 size baitcasting reels to recover line fast enough using big swimbaits after a strike even though retreiving the lure very slowly. The reason is 300 & 400 size reel has a larger diameter wider spool with higher line capacity that doesn't impact IPT dramatically after making a long cast. The same is true using deep diving crankbaits, you don't want to reel fast to get the lure diving then slow down as it gets closer to the boat, impossible to control the lures pace.

Tom

A Little off topic but would a shallow spool mitigate those longer casts effect on ipt ? It might requires thiner line to achieve same distance though?