Mono/Flouro Discussion

[Big Rick]

And just like that we are off on another side road!!  Where's my hot chocolate?!?!

1 hour ago, reason said:

I'd consider the position, but only on an interim or acting basis....

 

47 minutes ago, Heartland said:

Going to need a resume and 3 references.  This opening will require a Masters Degree in B.S. but equivalent experience and training will be considered.  LOL 

 

[Heartland]

My observation of a major difference  between Mono and FC is the difference in the way they stretch. I am not speaking of total stretch at breaking strength, that is very similar.  I am also not talking about plasticity or deformation, I don't find it important at breaking strength.  What I do find a difference in is that Mono line tends to start stretching very early and much more linearly than FC.  In other words it stretches throughout the entire ramp up to break off strength. FC line in my observation tends to be much different, in most situations of normal fishing the FC line stretches significantly less than Mono, it is not until you start reaching the near break off rating of FC line that it start to stretch.  Most other differences seem to be covered in nauseating detail ie, knot strength, abrasion resistance, and refractive index.   My .02 on the differences I observe when using both lines.    For the record I use  Tatsu, and Defier Armilo.

 

[islandbass]

On 12/15/2018 at 7:55 AM, Catt said:

 

Having a cup right now ?

I just finished the last of mine. Need to get more, lol. 

[WRB]

Nylon isn't elastic, it's a strong engineering thermoplastic and doesn't yield until it reaches it's yield strength. 

Try lifting 4 lbs dead weight using your MH or 4 power bass rod with 15 lb test mono. Take note of any line stretching occuring. 4 lbs will bottom out your rod so be very careful you don't high stick the rod. If you can't strecth 15 lb mono using the average bass rod with 4 lbs, how do you strecth it when fishing? The answer is you don't. 5 lbs will yield 15 lb test Nylon line. What anglers feel as line stretch is drag going through water putting a bow in the line that you pull tight.

Tom 

[Team9nine]

57 minutes ago, WRB said:

Nylon isn't elastic, it's a strong engineering thermoplastic and doesn't yield until it reaches it's yield strength. 

Try lifting 4 lbs dead weight using your MH or 4 power bass rod with 15 lb test mono. Take note of any line stretching occuring. 4 lbs will bottom out your rod so be very careful you don't high stick the rod. If you can't strecth 15 lb mono using the average bass rod with 4 lbs, how do you strecth it when fishing? The answer is you don't. 5 lbs will yield 15 lb test Nylon line. What anglers feel as line stretch is drag going through water putting a bow in the line that you pull tight.

Tom 

I get your point, and agree to some extent, about line drag being misleading, but have to disagree with much. Nylon is elastic, just not considered elastomeric. And it's a simple test to see nylon stretch with small amounts of force applied. Hang any piece of line from a solid object then add weights to the end of that line. Doesn't matter whether it's a couple ounces or a couple pounds, the line will stretch (just not yield). It only makes sense that when that same force is applied when fishing, the line will stretch accordingly. The 4 or 5 pound deadlift analogy is misleading. Good anglers (via proper technique) can certainly apply that much force on a hookset over shorter distances, as this has been tested thoroughly, and even more during the fight with a fish. If it wasn't so, we'd never break off fish.

[WRB]

Different forces envolved and different physical properties.

All plastics elongate under pressure and time, it's called cold flow. You can hand a 6 oz weight on 15 lb Nylon or FC line and it will yield  pstrectching over time. Impact strength is another property of plastics and that force at a very fast time like a hook set.

Tom

[Heartland]

Water saturation is also a factor when discussing stretch and nylon mono filament fishing line.  Typically the longer it is wet the more stretch it exhibits (to a point) and less abrasion resistant it becomes.

[WRB]

Fresh water fishermen have a difficult time comprehending the significance of line drag going through water because the fish are not fast swimmers and we don't experience the line drag forces applied. 

Off shore fast swimming fish like Marlin and Ono/wahoo bring line drag to mind. A fast fish can be running and grey hounding at over 30 mph ripping line off the reel, the line entering the water for example on the right corner of the stern the fish heading away to the right side, a minute later you see a fish jump 100 yards to the left side, your line still being pulled to the right, hard to believe it's your fish jumping on the left side. What happened is a big bow of hundreds of feet is in the line creating enough force to pull drag off the reel and it's that line drag the fish is fighting, not you and rod bent over. This is line drag and Nylon mono has higher coefficient of drag going through water then fluorocarbon that cuts through easier creating less line bow in the water.

Tom

[Arcs&sparks]

20 minutes ago, WRB said:

This is line drag and Nylon mono has higher coefficient of drag going through water then fluorocarbon that cuts through easier rearing less line bow in the water.

Tom

In Laymans terms is this simply because of a smoother surface on FC?

 

 

 

 

Sorry to go off topic with that.  Hot cocoa isn’t my thing.  Gimme a nice Porter,  or perhaps some spiked hot cider,  it’s been awhile.  

[Tinman'sBassFishing]

Arcs,

 

Simply put, it's because fluorocarbon's composition is of denser materials, so it sinks. Mono is less dense than water, so it floats, fluorocarbon is denser than water, so it sinks. 

 

Fluorocarbon's sinking properties creates a shallower degree of line bow, so when you set the hook the energy is transferred more efficiently to the lure, creating a more solid feeling and better set than mono. Most people say that fluorocarbon has less stretch than mono (pros included...), but that's generally incorrect. A few select fluorocarbons truly have less stretch than mono and that's because they're made of harder materials than the traditional castable fluorocarbons. There've been several studies regarding stretch and it's scientifically accurate that nearly all fluorocarbon line has as much stretch, if not more, than monofilament line. It can be verified by a little research and doing a little experiment at home... Sunline Shooter, a very popular fluorocarbon, is harder and more dense than the average fluorocarbon, so there's less stretch, making it a very good flipping/pitching line. Also, because of its hardness, it's also more abrasion resistant and resists water absorption longer.  

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Arcs&sparks said:

In Laymans terms is this simply because of a smoother surface on FC?

 

 

 

 

Sorry to go off topic with that.  Hot cocoa isn’t my thing.  Gimme a nice Porter,  or perhaps some spiked hot cider,  it’s been awhile.  

In simple terms nylon is a material that attracts water and holds it, called hygroscopy or a hygroscopic material. Fluorocabon line is the opposite and doesn't attract or absorb water it sheds it resulting in very low coeffient of drag in water. For this reason and it's heavier weight reduces line bow and you feel the lure more directly.

Tom

[Heartland]

9 hours ago, WRB said:

In simple terms nylon is a material that attracts water and holds it, called hygroscopy or a hygroscopic material. Fluorocabon line is the opposite and doesn't attract or absorb water it sheds it resulting in very low coeffient of drag in water. For this reason and it's heavier weight reduces line bow and you feel the lure more directly.

Tom

One of the reasons I like to use KVD Line and Lure on mono and braided line. Helps reduce hygroscopy. 

 

[OnthePotomac]

Wow! Glad I referenced the article in BAM.  The only thing left out of the whole discussion is an evaluation of Buicks and Chevys LOL

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Heartland said:

One of the reasons I like to use KVD Line and Lure on mono and braided line. Helps reduce hygroscopy. 

 

I believe KVD line conditioner does the opposite by wetting the line.

It's too early to debate chevy's vs fords, Chevy vs Buick never heard that one, maybe it's martini or old fashion time.

Tom

 

[Heartland]

25 minutes ago, WRB said:

I believe KVD line conditioner does the opposite by wetting the line.

It's too early to debate chevy's vs fords, Chevy vs Buick never heard that one, maybe it's martini or old fashion time.

Tom

 

Hard to get any wetter than soaking something in water. 

 

[WRB]

39 minutes ago, Heartland said:

Hard to get any wetter than soaking something in water. 

 

Misunderstanding the term wet as it applies to plastic. Example a spong absorbs water a candle doesn't no matter how long it's in water. The spong is hygroscopic the candle isn't. Nylon absorbs water in fact it's often put into water after molding or extruding to cross link the molecules to strength it. Fluorocarbon is semi crystalline, in lieu of being amorphous, and like the candle doesn't absorb water.

Way off topic but does relate to what we as anglers perceive to be mono line stretch. 

The fact FC line slides through water very easily is an advantage over Nylon line giving the angler better feedback on what the lure is doing. I would use FC for nearly everything if it had equal knot strength to mono nylon line, it doesn't.

Tom

[Todd2]

8 minutes ago, WRB said:

 I would use FC for nearly everything if it had equal knot strength to mono nylon line, it doesn't.

Tom

Other than Egg Nog and Cocoa, this is the only line in this thread that I understand and agree with. ?