Big fish are knocking my topwater spook straight out of the water, is the spook too light?

[basshunterman9]

I have been fishing for stripers and largemouths in rivers and lakes, and I usually like to catch them using Heddon Spooks. These work great for stripers and largmouths in the 2-5 lb range. However, I've had a lot of issues with bigger fish, such as stripers in the 15-25 lb range and largemouths in the 5-8 lb range. These larger fish will usually hit the lure (a 3/4 oz lure) with so much force from beneath that the lure flies straight out of the water. Its almost as if they hit it so hard a column of water prevented them from getting the lure. For these larger fish, the hookup ratio is extremely low.

 

I've had to resort to using 2 oz saltwater lures like a yo-zuri cruiser or a cotton cordell pencil popper for added weight to prevent it from getting blown up on. However, these by themselves usually attract stripers, but few largemouths. Does anyone know what I can do to get a better hookup ratio with the spook? I'm using a walk the dog retrieve at low to medium pace. Thanks!

[papajoe222]

I've had smallies come up 15ft.-20ft. to inhale a spook and not had that happen. I've also had LM in 3ft. do exactly as you describe.  I'm not discounting your theory, just speculating that the fish may just be hitting the lure just to get it out of the area. 

Normally, I'd recommend following up with a Fluke or weightless tube, but this is really the only situation where I'll throw the same lure back at them a few times and end up catching them.  I don't know if it triggers a different reaction than their first and they end up engulfing the lure, but the majority of those second strikers have the entire bait in their mouth. Give it a try.

[Fairtax4me]

You could try a mega dawg. They definitely catch largemouth. 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Strike_King_KVD_Mega_Dawg/descpage-SKKVDMD.html

 

 

I haven’t had fish knock a lure out of the water often, but I always feel like when they do it’s because they’re either hitting it to stun it, or they just got over excited and missed it. Usually if I can leave a bait in that same place near where the fish “tried” to eat it, they come back for it, or another fish grabs it. I’ve watched smallmouth do that. Largemouth and striper may not follow that same logic.  

[Bluebasser86]

Do they come back for it after they do that? Generally they'll come back if the bait isn't jerked away from them on the initial strike. They're trying to stun what they perceive as a large baitfish to make it easier to come back and catch while it lies crippled on the surface. Something more rear weighted like a big Showerblows might get a few more of them. 

[basshunterman9]

12 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Do they come back for it after they do that? Generally they'll come back if the bait isn't jerked away from them on the initial strike. They're trying to stun what they perceive as a large baitfish to make it easier to come back and catch while it lies crippled on the surface. Something more rear weighted like a big Showerblows might get a few more of them. 

They definitely do. Usually there is an initial blowup and failed hookup, then a secondary strike after. I've noticed that there are at most 2 strikes, and that my approach is to normally continue walking the dog with the same action as before after the first strike. Do you all advocate letting it lie dead still after the first strike?

[BassNJake]

52 minutes ago, basshunterman9 said:

They definitely do. Usually there is an initial blowup and failed hookup, then a secondary strike after. I've noticed that there are at most 2 strikes, and that my approach is to normally continue walking the dog with the same action as before after the first strike. Do you all advocate letting it lie dead still after the first strike?

I have heard people say to dead stick it after that initial blow up and I am sure it works for them.

 

What works for me is after the initial blowup, I pause for a second or two(letting the bass regroup) and then I twitch it really fast for a foot or so and then kill it.

 

I discovered this when using a toad and they miss it. Dead sticking it hasn't worked for me (I dont use a floating toad) so I started the crank it really fast for a few turns and then kill it technique and was pretty successful. Tried it throwing a Shower Blows and it worked for this walk the dog type lure too.

 

I also use the fast retrieve just as I am approaching a piece of cover/structure and then kill it just after passing by.

[Mobasser]

On 10/10/2018 at 10:43 PM, Bluebasser86 said:

Do they come back for it after they do that? Generally they'll come back if the bait isn't jerked away from them on the initial strike. They're trying to stun what they perceive as a large baitfish to make it easier to come back and catch while it lies crippled on the surface. Something more rear weighted like a big Showerblows might get a few more of them. 

As Bluebasser86 said, these fish are feeding pretty aggressively. They are trying to stun the lure, then will come back for the kill. I've gotten them to hit it a second time by deadsticking the bait, slow twitches, or start your retrieve again slightly slower. Try to make them think they have stunned the prey, or wounded it.

[smalljaw67]

I will tell you what I think is happening. I believe Bluebasser is correct, the fish are trying to stun the bait or even kill it. When they do that they aren't always hitting the bait with their mouth, they will often tail slap it, if I didn't see it I wouldn't have believe it. I had it happen with a snag-proof frog 20 years ago, we would fish the bait in a normal fashion until it reached open water and then we would reel it back to make another cast. About 5 cranks in the water explodes and my frog is 5' in the air, it happened 2 more times and then the third time it was close enough to see, the fish tail slapped it. The way I caught the fish was to let the bait sit after it came back down, I let the bait sit in the water without moving it for about 10 seconds or so and then the fish came up and ate it. If we moved it after it got tail slapped it wouldn't get bit and sometimes it would get tail slapped again. I believe they are either hitting your bait with a closed mouth or tail slapping it, either way try letting it sit motionless for bit before reeling again.

[fishballer06]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:43 PM, Bluebasser86 said:

Do they come back for it after they do that? Generally they'll come back if the bait isn't jerked away from them on the initial strike. They're trying to stun what they perceive as a large baitfish to make it easier to come back and catch while it lies crippled on the surface. Something more rear weighted like a big Showerblows might get a few more of them. 

I see this issue fairly often with the larger bass up in Canada. It just comes with the territory of topwater lures. 

 

I was going to suggest a LC Sammy because they are tail weighted and the bottom half of the bait is down in the water when at rest, more so than the Heddon Spook.

[Catt]

I think pretty much everybody is right.

 

TPWD use to stock Stripers on Toledo Bend, when they were feeding heavily on large shad & bluegills you could see them busting the surface. Like you described they would knock the bait clear out of the water. More than once I idled over & saw bait fish laying on the surface dying. 

 

I would throw a Rattlin' Saltwater Chug Bug® model CBS11, 4 3/8", 15/16 oz., They will catch bass.

 

I throw one color only!  ?

[J Francho]

Dead stick it, or toss a fluke in there.

[WRB]

When bass mis a top water or knock it out of the water it's usually because something isn't right, when stripers do it the color isn't what they want, both have excellent eye sight. Your 1st choice is change the color, then change the size. Heddon spooks or super spooks have mediocre hooks and you should change them. The problem with stripers is they destroy hooks. I also believe a feathered rear treble helps initially and with secondary strikes.

I put away my spooks and replaced them with RI Vixen in bone and silver Shad colors.

Tom

PS, 20-25 lb stripers and 8 lb LMB think about upsizing to 6" or 8" BD Lunker Punker or STI Pupfish*

*discontinued lure, look on eBay.

[Paul Roberts]

Interesting. I dunno exactly. The stunning thing sounds plausible, I guess, except that smaller fish are hooking up, and bigger fish are the ones trying to "stun" the relatively small lure.

 

Like WRB, I have always seen those slaps, and tail slaps, as rejections. Trout do this too, as all dry fly fishers figure out. Fish focus with binocular vision and can only do so pretty close to their face. They may rush up, and then reject in an instant. They clamp shut, giving an apparent cheek slap. In some instances it's possible they are sampling with their cheeks and lower jaw too, when they do this. Most fish (bass, stripers, trout, pike,...) have very sensitive hair cells along their cheeks and lower jaw (a specialized part of their lateral line network) that are directly wired into the strike and feeding modules in the brain. The eyes often lead in the attack, but it closes with those frontal hair cell canals. I see cheek slaps, or rolls, often when trout reject a dry fly. Sometimes we cheek hook those fish. I've even seen this up close with wild trout I've kept in stream tanks. They get all excited at a prospect, only to reject it at the very last moment. And again, it appears they may also be sampling the object in the process. The end result is... something isn't right there.

 

As to tail slaps and, possibly, lures sent flying (I haven't seen that much -then again, you're talking some pretty big fish there), a fish's tail can't help but follow its head on the attack. When coming fast and hard, the fish turn away at the last second and make a looping turn in regaining depth. This instantaneous "regaining depth" action is well known in the fish behavior world -called the Mauthner Response- and is actuated by specialized neurons that directly link the flanks and tail with the motor control areas of the hindbrain. It's an automatic flight reaction that operates much faster than a normal "decision" reaction that is processed in multiple brain centers before a motor response is applied. This response is commonly seen in many fishes; I've even video'd it underwater. I've recognized it as part of the rejection response to objects in my aquarium trout too. So... an aborted attack at the last second would involve a cheek, side, and lastly the tail that then powers that big body back into the depths, potentially throwing the lure skyward in the process.

 

My other thought, that's pretty much linked in to the above, is that the relatively low density/high buoyancy of the lure is much more easily thrown out of the water, than real flesh and bone. This could even be part of the reason for the last second rejection.

 

What to do? Find something that doesn't cause a rejection. And/or, add density to the bait. I like the soft plastic jerkbait idea. A big fluke, or Fin-s-Fish, or... something with a little mass and that sits just under the surface, rather than on it. Maybe even one behind a topwater, if you need to draw attention first?

[WRB]

Follow up lures for missed top water strikes is common practice but very % with fast moving striper schools. Big LMB tend to return where they came from more slowly then fast moving stripers. Smaller school size 2 to 3 lb LMB is a different issue, they stay around and are competetive feeders so follow lures often work.

Tom 

[Dom Hendricks]

Follow it with a fluke would be my first idea. The hooks on the Spooks are awful so I would change them out. I don’t know if going larger on the hook size or not would help.  

[basshunterman9]

Thanks for all the advice, its a goldmine here. I noticed many of you mentioned a fluke, I'm very curious is there a reasoning behind that. I am not familiar with fishing flukes, is it designed to mimic a certain bait and does it have a relation to topwater feeders?

[J Francho]

You're mimicking an injured bait fish - as in injured by the fish that smacked your topwater.  I like to wacky rig or nose hook them as a follow up bait.

[Deleted account]

Bigger hooks and work the bait faster. Striped bass don't stun prey with their tails, what they are doing is turning away violently at the last moment, so it may appear, or they may actually unintentionally hit the bait with their body or tail.

[snake95]

1 hour ago, reason said:

Striped bass don't stun prey with their tails, what they are doing is turning away violently at the last moment, so it may appear, or they may actually unintentionally hit the bait with their body or tail.

I didn't know that.  I often foul-hook these guys in the summer inshore fishing in NE.  So, I figured they were trying to stun.  They WILL knock my spooks into the air.

 

But back to black bass...

I have had spots do the same thing, including tail hooking them - on walking baits!

I have been fishing spooks in the dark of night but with artificial lights nearby here in the south lately.  I've found they'll hit a bait and target it well if I add long pauses to my walking cadence.