Battery maintenance

[DINK WHISPERER]

I finally gave in and purchased 3 new batteries (2 deep cycle and one cranking) and a Minn Kota 330D charger. I plan to leave the charger plugged in full time when not using the boat. My question is, for regular lead acid batteries how often do you guys check/add fluid when plugged into a charger 24/7? 

[TOXIC]

In the summer heat about every third trip.  I also leave my charger plugged in whenever my boat is not on the water.  I have 3 lead acid wet cells for the TM and an AGM for the cranking/accessories.  My on board charger is a 2005 model and not designed for AGM so I top off my AGM with a portable the night before I go out.  My charger will get it to 90%, I take it the rest of the way with my portable that has an AGM setting.  Otherwise it would shorten the life of a very expensive battery.  I hope your "cranking" battery is a dual use deep cycle.  

[Jig Man]

You should check the water level at least 1 time per month.

[DINK WHISPERER]

58 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

In the summer heat about every third trip.  I also leave my charger plugged in whenever my boat is not on the water.  I have 3 lead acid wet cells for the TM and an AGM for the cranking/accessories.  My on board charger is a 2005 model and not designed for AGM so I top off my AGM with a portable the night before I go out.  My charger will get it to 90%, I take it the rest of the way with my portable that has an AGM setting.  Otherwise it would shorten the life of a very expensive battery.  I hope your "cranking" battery is a dual use deep cycle.  

My cranking battery only says cranking on it. Nothing about dual use deep cycle. My trolling motor batteries say deep cycle. Should it be a dual purpose? Reasons? 

[Troy85]

I use a cranking battery for my outboard, it also runs my electronics, and live well pumps.  I've never had any issues with cranking the engine, even after running the pumps and electronics all day long.

[A-Jay]

42 minutes ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

My cranking battery only says cranking on it. Nothing about dual use deep cycle. My trolling motor batteries say deep cycle. Should it be a dual purpose? Reasons? 

Not sure what your particular rig is or how it may be set up.

But just for reference - My 'cranking battery' is dual purpose because besides firing up the 200 ProXS - it also powers Everything except the trolling motor.

 

Both live well pumps, both Talons, both Humminbird Helix 10's, the 360 imaging, the navigation lights, the interior lighting, and anything & everything else not mentioned run off that single 31M Optima Blue top - it's a busy unit.  

A-Jay

[Way2slow]

Since you have already purchased a cranking battery, it's probably a little late to consider the dual purpose.

The reason for a dual purpose is cranking batteries don't like to be discharged.  In most cases, running the electronics and pumps all day will run the cranking battery down 20-30% or even more.  Unless you are making long runs and have a high output charging system, the motor will not keep the battery fully charged.

 

Also, on the MK-330D, I bought that same charger three years ago and I would not recommend leaving it on 24/7, the maintenance voltage on mine is too high and I've had to replace batteries each spring since getting it.  I called MK about the person I talked to didn't  recommend leaving it on, even though it says you can.   I know that sucks because that's what you buy a charger with a maintainer phase, but my experience with the MK-330D has not been a very good one.  I unplug mine now and plug it in about every six weeks. 

They say they have a float voltage of 13.4VDC, mine is 13.6VDC, which in both cases is not good because on most flooded cell deep cycle batteries, the ideal float voltage is 13.17VDC.  Now, AGM's are closer to 13.4VDC.

[TOXIC]

As has been said, "cranking" batteries are designed to deliver a high discharge for starting the big motor.  Deep Cycle are meant to be discharged slowly and last longer, they usually have a higher RC (Reserve Capacity).  A dual purpose is meant to do both but will have a higher RC than just a cranking battery but less than a straight deep cycle.  I use the AGM for my cranking battery because it is a dual purpose and has a high RC and the MCA's (Marine Cranking Amps) to start my 250 Yamaha but the beast weighs 75lbs.  

[DINK WHISPERER]

Well that sucks about the charger not being good for full time use. I'll just unplug it and plug the night before going. My batteries usually last at least 3 yesterday doing it like that anyway.

I do run all accessories like power poles, Lowrance units, Jack plate etc on the cranker. I've been using this specific model battery in the last 2 boats with good results so we'll see. 

Minn Kota rep told me it was perfectly fine to leave this specific model of charger plugged 24/7. Also, if cranking batteries don't "like" to be drawn down then why do companies like Lowrance and power pole specifically say to hook their products up to the cranking battery? Do they just assume we all know to get a dual purpose? 

[J Francho]

I've had both types, and really never noticed a difference.  I wasn't running really high draw graphs, but usually had livewells on recirc all day.

[TOXIC]

3 hours ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

Well that sucks about the charger not being good for full time use. I'll just unplug it and plug the night before going. My batteries usually last at least 3 yesterday doing it like that anyway.

I do run all accessories like power poles, Lowrance units, Jack plate etc on the cranker. I've been using this specific model battery in the last 2 boats with good results so we'll see. 

Minn Kota rep told me it was perfectly fine to leave this specific model of charger plugged 24/7. Also, if cranking batteries don't "like" to be drawn down then why do companies like Lowrance and power pole specifically say to hook their products up to the cranking battery? Do they just assume we all know to get a dual purpose? 

It used to be that we didn't run all that much off the crankers, bilge/livewell and a couple of smaller graphs.  At least not enough to run them down in a day.  Now with 2, 3 or 4 HD sidescan 16" graphs/poles/talons/Sirrus Radio/hyd jackplate and a bunch more accessories, I know some who run 5 batteries.  Don't sweat it if the battery is just a cranking.  Put up the battery and its capacity and we will have a better idea.  

[DINK WHISPERER]

I believe it's a group 24m with 1000 cranking amps/800 cold cranking amps and 125 min reserve capacity. 

[TOXIC]

You won't have a problem.  It will take a lot to run that battery down.  

[Way2slow]

The only time Cranking Amps mean anything, is when cranking the motor.  That's just how much current the battery can deliver in one big surge. 

The Reserve Minutes is the number you need to look at when the battery has a constant draw on it.  That's how long the battery will deliver a 25 amp draw (that's the standard use by most manufactures but some do differ) before it's totally run down (approx. 11.8 volts).  Which won't run anything.

[WRB]

Back in 2005,I changed over to AGM's so no more maintenance issues.

Before that time I used Trogan SC225 deep cycle marine wet cell batteries for about 25 years. Trogan has a battery watering system that keeps the fluid levels full. There are a few other watering systems availble and if you value your wet cell batteries I would suggest getting one.

Unless you are very forgetful there isn't any reason to continuously charge batteries. How hard is it to plug in a charger for a day every few weeks and check the fluid levels?

I went to a watering system year around because it was too difficult to add fluids without spilling or over filling and needed moving the batteries around to add water, a pain in the a--.

Tom

 

[DINK WHISPERER]

12 minutes ago, WRB said:

Back in 2005,I changed over to AGM's so no more maintenance issues.

Before that time I used Trogan SC225 deep cycle marine wet cell batteries for about 25 years. Trogan has a battery watering system that keeps the fluid levels full. There are a few other watering systems availble and if you value your wet cell batteries I would suggest getting one.

Unless you are very forgetful there isn't any reason to continuously charge batteries. How hard is it to plug in a charger for a day every few weeks and check the fluid levels?

I went to a watering system year around because it was too difficult to add fluids without spilling or over filling and needed moving the batteries around to add water, a pain in the a--.

Tom

 

Your right, I've always plugged up right after and before a trip and never had issues. The only reason I was considering leaving it plugged was because everyone says they supposedly last way longer if you keep them topped off that way. Screw it I'll stick to what's been working thus far. 

[BigAngus752]

If you want the easiest route to getting the longest life out of your batteries get a microprocessor-controlled on-board charger that has "float" and/or "anti-sulfation" modes and leave it plugged in 24/7 when not in use (check your water levels once a month).  I learned years ago that the proper charger on a Harley or rarely-driven classic car will add 5+ years to the life of a battery.  Plugging and unplugging will not.  In fact plugging and unplugging can drastically reduce lifespan.  Here is some info from Rolls Battery Engineering technical support (specifically addressing flooded lead acid batteries):

 

Causes of battery sulfation:

• Batteries sit too long between charges.  As little as 24 hours in hot weather and several days in cooler weather.
• Battery is stored without some type of energy input.
• Undercharging of a battery to only 90% of capacity will allow sulfation of the battery using the 10% of battery chemistry not reactivated by not completing the charging cycle.
• Low electrolyte level - battery plates exposed to air will immediately sulfate.
• Incorrect charging levels and settings.  Rolls recommends a 3-phase charge cycle (Bulk, Absorption & Float) and a charge rate equal to 10% of the C20 (20 hr AH rating) of the battery bank.  See State of Charge & charging information.
• A battery sitting for extended periods in a partial or discharged state is more likely to retain a build up of sulfation, which hardens and is more difficult to remove through equalizations.

[WRB]

What does Rolls Royce recommend for marine deep cycle batteries designed to be discharged and recharged repeatedly? We are not discussing car batteries. When I used Trogan SC225's wet cell deep cycle batteries I only charged them as needed and never charged them 24/7 with onboard charger in maintenance mode and averaged about 10 years life time, but always fought maintenance issues like corrosion do to out gassing when charging.

My AGM's are now over 15 years old and I never leave them on maintenance mode, always charge them as needed and don't have any maintenance issues. You can't ask for anything more out of deep cycle marine batteries.

Top of the line Dual Pro charger that AJay uses apparently works well plugged in 24/7.

Tom

 

[Yumeya]

I charge mine after use, if I don't go for a week or so I will plug in my charger.

 

The charge I have been using for a couple years is a NOCO Genius, nothing fancy but it works...

[BigAngus752]

22 hours ago, WRB said:

What does Rolls Royce recommend for marine deep cycle batteries designed to be discharged and recharged repeatedly? We are not discussing car batteries.

Rolls Royce?  Rolls Battery Engineering has been making batteries for over 60 years. Every battery including marine and industrial.   I'm glad you've had good luck with your batteries and the way you maintained them.  I'm sure many here will benefit from your experience.  I'm going to stick with science and the advice from the experts.  But I also use the Professional Series Dual Pro.  I agree that the wrong type of charger will severely shorten battery life if left on 24/7 because I've made that mistake also.  I trashed a two year old marine deep cycle over the course of one winter by using the wrong charger the wrong way.  

[J Francho]

On 10/9/2018 at 11:21 PM, WRB said:

What does Rolls Royce recommend for marine deep cycle batteries designed to be discharged and recharged repeatedly? We are not discussing car batteries.

http://rollsbattery.com/

 

They make marine batteries.

[WRB]

You learn something everyday!

Tom

[Glenn]

I fish every week, pretty much year round, so I work my batteries pretty hard. I have the dual pro charger and used to leave it plugged in 24/7.  I went through 2 chargers in 4 years due to bank failure.  So I changed to charging overnight every time I get off the water, or weekly if it's been that long, and then unplug.  Haven't had a failure in 10 years now.

 

That said, it seems I can't get more than 4 1/2 to 5 years out of batteries no matter what brand, type, or maintenance rituals I try.  So now I replace the batteries at the end of 4 years like clockwork.

 

Works for me.

 

[WRB]

Oddessey and Northstar AGM's are the high end price range that our local fire departments use and VMax Tank has worked good me at mid range price point.

Both Oddessy and NorthStar are domestic mfd and VMax is imported.

Tom

[Fishing Rhino]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:21 PM, WRB said:

What does Rolls Royce recommend for marine deep cycle batteries designed to be discharged and recharged repeatedly? We are not discussing car batteries. When I used Trogan SC225's wet cell deep cycle batteries I only charged them as needed and never charged them 24/7 with onboard charger in maintenance mode and averaged about 10 years life time, but always fought maintenance issues like corrosion do to out gassing when charging.

My AGM's are now over 15 years old and I never leave them on maintenance mode, always charge them as needed and don't have any maintenance issues. You can't ask for anything more out of deep cycle marine batteries.

Top of the line Dual Pro charger that AJay uses apparently works well plugged in 24/7.

Tom

 

I think it's Rolls Surrette.  At least that's what it was when I was buying them for my lobster boat.

 

Here's a bit more pertinent info.

 

Rolls premium deep cycle batteries have a reputation of reliability in the railroad, marine, motive power and renewable energy sectors around the world. Rolls Battery User Manual For over six decades , Surrette Battery Company has been manufacturing Rolls-branded premium deep cycle lead acid batteries.

 

I used their D8 that weighed in at over two hundred pounds.

 

Suitable for canoes and kayaks.