A question about rod/reel balance

[Texicans]

My question today is how do you assess a rod and reel's balance?  I'm looking for a second combo.  I have the Lew Mach 1 Speed Spool combo (Speed Stick 6'10" MH/F IM8).  I've been out to a few local ponds and decided I want a second set up.  With this in mind, I went to Cabelas, located the same Lew's combo I have.  By chance, the combo did not have the reel secured with zip ties.  So, I wandered to the rod section and started comparing rods.  I took the Mach 1 reel and put it on several rods.  What I noticed is that the Speed Stick rod that came with the combo transmitted a lot of feel, even through the reel.  I put the reel on some nicer lighter rods, TFO Professional, G. Loomis GLX, and other rods from $100 to $200.  What stood out was how the rod did not balance well with the lighter more expensive rods.  It was my impression that the lighter the rod, the further the balance point was from the front of the reel.  While several rods felt lighter off the rack, when the reel went on the rod the rod felt heavier in hand.  It was my impression that the Mach 1 reel (presumably >7oz) did not balance well with lighter more expensive rods.  

 

Rods that felt good with the Mach 1 Speed Spool: Duckett Ghost 7' Medium Heavy, Abu Garcia Vendeta 7' MH/Fast, and Shimano Selus 6'8" MH.  There were several other rods that felt very nice in hand, but did not seem to balance well with the Mach 1 speed spool reel.

 

Please share your thoughts on the importance of balance in the fishing experience.  I am only fishing for 1-2hrs tops, but how does balance impact you after a full day of fishing.  Am I right to think that a decent rod and reel that are well balanced would be better than a nicer rod and reel that don't feel balanced in hand.  I know this is a bit subjective, but I welcome your views and experiences.

 

 

[A-Jay]

Rig Balance as you're finding out is a specifically personal deal.

For me, in applications where I'm usually fishing tip up - and light strike detection /  sensitivity is key - I prefer a rig that is not tip heavy - presentations like drop shot & soft plastics & my jig rods come to mind.

 When throwing moving baits 'rig balance' becomes a bit less of a priority to the blanks action, castablitiy and the way it fights fish. 

Additionally I often actually fish these rigs tip down so 'balance' means something else right there.

Either way, I don't care to be 'fighting' the the stick while trying to fish it so I'm always looking to match how my rigs balance according to how I plan on fishing them. 

Get what feels right to you for what you plan on doing with it - disregard the $$$.  My favorite topwater rod is a fairly inexpensive stick that's no longer made (insert way old).  Can't put a price on that.

Hope that helps. 

A-Jay

 

[Tennessee Boy]

  On 10/2/2018 at 5:02 PM, Texicans said:

What I noticed is that the Speed Stick rod that came with the combo transmitted a lot of feel, even through the reel.  I put the reel on some nicer lighter rods, TFO Professional, G. Loomis GLX, and other rods from $100 to $200.  What stood out was how the rod did not balance well with the lighter more expensive rods. 

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@Texicans you're doing it all wrong.  You're not suppose to judge a rod by how comfortable it feels in your hand.  You are suppose to judge a rod by how much it cost.  If you're not careful, you're gonna end up with a bunch of inexpensive rods that you really like.  This is very bad for the industry.

[Deleted account]

  On 10/2/2018 at 6:27 PM, Tennessee Boy said:

@Texicans you're doing it all wrong.  You're not suppose to judge a rod by how comfortable it feels in your hand.  You are suppose to judge a rod by how much it cost.  If you're not careful, you're gonna end up with a bunch of inexpensive rods that you really like.  This is very bad for the industry.

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I can't tell you how many rods I liked a lot, until I read on the InterWeb® that they were no good, oh wait, yes I can,......zero.   

[A-Jay]

  On 10/2/2018 at 6:27 PM, Tennessee Boy said:

@Texicans you're doing it all wrong.  You're not suppose to judge a rod by how comfortable it feels in your hand.  You are suppose to judge a rod by how much it cost.  If you're not careful, you're gonna end up with a bunch of inexpensive rods that you really like.  This is very bad for the industry.

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LOL ~

Plus the bait monkey will blow up your house ! 

A-Jay

[GReb]

Everyone has their own sweet spot. My balance point is about an inch out from the line guide. 

[Texicans]

Thanks for the feedback.  I guess I am doing this all wrong after all.  Maybe I can sell some of my fly fishing gear and get some of the good stuff.  Anyone looking for a couple of 8wt?  Crazy that a "cheap" 8wt is less anything less than $200.  The "good" stuff starts around $400.  Oh, wait you want to add a 7,8,9 wt reel?  Let's open up that wallet for another $250-$400.   Yep, $700 should get you a respectable set up plus another $80.  Well, that's what the Orvis guy tells me.  I'll go be happy with my sub budget combos.  My 4yr old doesn't know the difference and neither do the bass.

 

An inch from the line guide sounds like a good starting point and about where my current combo is and where the balance point was on rods that felt well balanced.  By this logic, it seems you need a reasonably light reel to make a light weight rod balance well.  This seems to be an important lesson to learned.  Thanks guys for the feedback. 

[fissure_man]

The location of the balance point is a convenient but ineffective way to compare the “felt balance” of different combos, unless your aim is to actually grip the rod at that location (achievable, though not necessarily desirable, if you’re gripping ahead of the center of the reel or using a counterweighted rod).  It can be misleading, too: a lightweight combo might balance further forward than a heavier combo, and yet still feel equally or even less tip-heavy depending on how you hold the reel.

 

For example: a very tip-heavy casting rod will require a heavy reel to bring the overall balance point close to the front of the reel. A lighter reel on the same rod would push the balance point further forward, which could be interpreted as “less balanced.” However, if your plan is to palm the reel in a way that it (the reel) is more or less balanced in your hand, its counterbalancing weight is removed from the equation and you’re left with the feeling of a tip-heavy rod plus the balanced dead weight of whichever reel you selected.  In this scenario, is the heavier reel (and overall heavier combo) an advantage?  If the tip-heaviness is a problem, a better-balanced rod or an adjustment to your grip is what you need.

 

If your grip is slightly choked up then the reel’s weight will reduce tip-heaviness (most obviously in applications where the grip location is fully ahead of the reel), while grip to the rear of or behind the reel will make tip-heaviness worse.  As above, “ideal balance” comes down to how you hold/use the rig and how you prefer it to feel. 

 

As for the lighter ($$$) rods balancing further ahead of the reel – if that’s the case (surprising to see this as a general finding, but I’m not familiar with most of the rods mentioned), a lighter reel wouldn’t bring the balance point closer to the reel seat; it would do the opposite. Still, the comments above about balance point and grip location apply.

 

Shaving weight in rod construction can improve balance but it doesn’t necessarily – it depends on where the weight came from. Most bass rods off the shelf are tip-heavy to varying degrees.  Tip-heaviness can be reduced for a given rod length/power ideally by using a lighter blank ($) and lighter guides ($). In addition, some rod makers intentionally add butt-weight to reduce tip-weight at the expense of increased overall weight (whether or not the end justifies the means is up for debate). Maybe this is what you experienced with some of the heavier, better balanced rods.

[Texicans]

Thank you for the thoughtful response.  I see your point regarding grip position.  It appears that balance when casting and retrieving can be two related, but different sensations.  I have medium hands and tend to palm the reel further forward such that my ring finger is in front of a casting rod's trigger.  This allows me to have my index finger on the line when retrieving.  I like having a finger on the line and it's a bit of a carry over from stripper clousers on my fly rod.

 

I will keep your points in mind.  After reading your 5th paragraph, I better understand how the lighter rods I sampled were relatively tip heavy while the heavier rods allowed for a balance point closer to the front of the reel.  I understand your point that I need to be sure to consider the casting balance as well as the retrieve balance and my relative hand position.  For now, I may just replicate my current set up and work with this through the Winter and Spring.  Perhaps I'll look for something nicer if I can't catch any fish.  That's got to be answer if I keep getting skunked.

 

[WRB]

Balance point would be the fulcrum point where the rod with or without a reel balances. Balance is about weight and where the fulcrum point is located and that depends on rod weight and length, reel weight* including line and where you place the fulcrum. Balanced feel is different that includes adding the lure weight tied onto the line, casting and retreiving, totally subjective to each individual.

Tom

* reel weight is a factor only when not located at the fulcrum point of the rod without the reel.

[Brad Reid]

I think most of us too often think of this balance as being something achieved inside our homes like balancing the scale of justice. I'd at least consider at what point feel and balance likely matter the most. For, say, a drop shot fished on a sort of semi-taut line, this tension is pulling down a bit on the rod tip. From the perspective of functional balance, it might be that a reel slightly heavy and tipping the butt end down in a living room test . . . would be perfect on the water. A-Jay alludes to this in a post up above, I believe.

 

Each sort of presentation has its own characteristics. 

 

Brad