Help with Mercury 25 outboard 2 stroke

[QuattroGinger]

First wanted to say thanks to everyone for all the great info on this website. i have been reading all through it for the last several weeks since recently getting into fishing. So i recently picked up a 2002 tracker super glide v14 with a Mercury 25 outboard 2 stroke tiller. From my understanding it has had very low hours usage on it and recently had the bottom end rebuilt. Its been sitting coverless under a tree for quite some time. Here are some of the issues/questions i have with the outboard.

 

1. I ran a gallon of mid grade fuel, 50:1 mix, with a entire bottle of seafoam marine through the engine. (recommended by a buddy that works on larger boats at nearby marina) i did this over 3 days (due to rain) for 15 on 15 off. it smoked alot. several times it would........fart, or miss, and a larger thick cloud of smoke would come out of prop. without running longer with fresh fuel, i tried taking the boat out and i could not keep motor running. i constandly would have to pull the primer about every 15 seconds for it to rev back up before it stalled. got it home, put ears on it, and now when its running ( still having to prime but not as frequently to prevent stall ) i occasionally get loud pops, or backfires maybe. it wont stay running and im not sure what else to check other than maybe pulling plugs. i did hook up a spark plug tester light and saw it lighting up although very dimly in the daylight. Could i have fouled the plugs from cleaning with seafoam? i thought by getting it heated up it would burn away any carbon build up. Or anything else to check? could carburetor be messed up? 

 

2. PO said reverse only worked twice during his sole outing after bottom end rebuild and he heard it somewhat grind into gear when it did. the tiller handle gets to Neutral then will not go into Reverse. if i force it, it will just click the handle allignment out of place so Neutral is off kilter. i just have to go up past Forward and click it that way to realign. This is while engine is running or not, no difference. i checked in small opening from side of outboard and watched the shift shaft as i went through the gears and tried getting into reverse. i never see that eye hook lift up on washer, and i believe i see the cut or alteration in the shaft that the washer would sit on top of, but with no washer. I tried manually spinning prop into reverse while spinning tiller handle and swear i got it once but then couldnt get it again. I also disconnected shaft at the top and tried pushing down on it to shift into reverse but wouldn't go. so i think at minimum the washer is needed. i ordered a couple online and waiting for them to come in before i attempt to drop the bottom end. 

 

3. More of a concern, and i will try to attach a photo for it. i read on a couple pages (that i can no longer find) while researching the reverse issue that mentioned something about milky oil or substance signified something after a bottom end rebuild. i happen to notice a milky colored substance between the prop and lower. not sure if its anything i should be concered about or not. if so, i will take back to guy who rebuilt bottom end with PO and have him put washer on as well. 

 

4. i found owners manual and i believe correct parts diagram but cant figure out what the hose is im pointing to in photo that connects above spark plugs to bottom cowl. in some videos i see water coming from corner of cowl which i assume is this hose. however i have none. 

 

5. is it ok for my pisser to just have a spray rather than a steady stream? 

 

 

[JLBBass]

NEVER heard of running a full can of seafoam in 1 gallon of gas unless you are using it as a "shock" method. meaning idling around, not more than 2000 rpms, for 20-30 minutes, then letting sit for about 30 minutes, repeat if neccesary, then hooking 100% gas/oil mix without seafoam and running full speed for a while to clean it out. NEVER running around normal speeds/full speed at a 1 gallon gas/full can of seafoam!

[WRB]

Plugs are toast and you may have clogged the fuel filter.

Sounds like you also wiring shorting issues.

Tom

[Harold Scoggins]

Same thing happened to me with a 50 2 stroke years ago. I put in new plugs and it ran fine. ( Be nice if that was your fix.)

[Way2slow]

First, quit trying to run that much seafoam. Two ounces per gallon is about the max. That's probably the reason it's smoking so much

Second, the motor not being in water at it's normal depth changes the back pressure and screws up the idle mixture.

If mine, the first thing I would do is a thorough and proper cleaning of the carb because it sounds like the mixture is way off.

Also, if you don't know when it was changed, put a new water pump in it.  That's the first thing you should do on any motor, unless you know for a fact it was recently changed.

 

 

[QuattroGinger]

thanks for all the info. when i ran the seafoam it was just at idle out of the water the entire time. i will ask PO if the water pump was replaced when bottom end gearing was rebuilt. could i still have water out the pisser if the pump goes bad? 

[Way2slow]

Just like in a car's cooling system, they need to maintain a high pressure to raise the boiling point of the coolant to keep it from turning to steam.  That's why it's important to keep a good, water pump in one, like changing it every three years.

A bad water pump can still pump water, it just won't have the pressure necessary to keep the motor from developing hot spots.  The typical two stroke usually needs to maintain at least 15psi of water pressure.  Without that, hot spots can make the water boil and turn to steam.  The steam can then push all the water out of the motor, causing a good old meltdown. 

Another note, if a motor sits long periods of time without being run, it's more important to keep the pump changed.  The rubber impeller hardens and develops a memory, so when the blades that a squeezed down won't flex out for a good seal against the housing.

[WRB]

My 1st response was while in a waiting room looking at my iPhone with no photos.

Looking at the attached photos clearly show the water hose attached to the flush port, hose pressure far exceeds  water pump pressure, so you don't know if the OB water pump is functional.

Keep in mind water doesn't instantly run through the power head, the thermostat control water going into the powerhead water jacket to cool. All the water running into and out of the engine doesn't indicate it's cooling the powerhead.

The photos also indicate a gray coloration of the powerhead and components that could be from salt or brackish water. You have 2 cylinders with a power pack for each spark plug and not sure what you are pointing regarding the lower plug wire? The plug wires should be clamped to prevent touching other metal parts to prevent wearing insulation from vibration and shorting.

I agree with everything Way2Slow has suggested. Carburators gum up when stored with gasoline mixed with oil unless they are run dry before storing, a common practice with older model OB's by disconnecting the fuel line letting the engine in the water until it stops. Your carbs need cleaning, new plugs because they fouled by running too rich during your clean out method and the wiring and power packs needs to be checked.

Tom

[QuattroGinger]

thanks again. other than no water at all is there another sign i could be looking for to indicate a bad pump? on this size motor is a spray normal or should i see a steady stream? i did also tested in a 32 gallon trashcan without the ears and it seemed to be the same. 

[TnRiver46]

19 minutes ago, QuattroGinger said:

thanks again. other than no water at all is there another sign i could be looking for to indicate a bad pump? on this size motor is a spray normal or should i see a steady stream? i did also tested in a 32 gallon trashcan without the ears and it seemed to be the same. 

I would just replace the impeller. They aren't expensive

[Fishingmickey]

36 minutes ago, QuattroGinger said:

thanks again. other than no water at all is there another sign i could be looking for to indicate a bad pump? on this size motor is a spray normal or should i see a steady stream? i did also tested in a 32 gallon trashcan without the ears and it seemed to be the same. 

Quattro,

          Having it spray is a sign of not enough water. That spray might be steam from the water flashing off into steam in the "hot" head. Is the spray hot? Is it hissing when it comes out (like it is under pressure)? It should always be a stream of warm water. If it is hot then your water flow isn't high enough. If the motor has sat for a long period of time the carburetor just like the water pump impeller has rubber parts.  It has gaskets and "O" rings made of rubber. It is very possible that some of the rubber pieces have dry rotted and turned into hard carbon instead of pliable rubber. It is also likely that the old gas/oil mixture has dried up and caused varnish build up in the ports of the carburetor.

     The problem with the shifting i would suspect is due to the shifter rod not being adjusted properly when the lower unit was re-built. Forcing it is not a good thing. There is a dog (three notched block of metal) on the end of that shift rod. it adjusts up or down on the threaded rod to shift the motor gears.

      Find a reputable mechanic to go over the entire motor and correct the problems. It might/will save you a bunch of money in the long run.  The old saw is pay me now or pay me four times as much or more later. Nothing sucks much more then being stranded out on the water.  Good luck and hope you get everything sorted out!

Fishingmickey

[QuattroGinger]

Pulled plugs today and dropped bottom. Washer was missing off shifter shatft. pump had both plastic washers busted, connector at top of pump and a piece that fell off somewhere while removing is worn, cracked or broken. Looks like guy did impeller only previously. Seems to be in decent condition. Can't upload photos from phone because they are 8 times the limit. Have to move to computer and lower the quality again. 

[QuattroGinger]

[QuattroGinger]

the reason i was asking about the hose i was pointing to in the first post was that in this video, once he starts the motor at the end, water starts coming from corner of bottom cowl, which i assume is that hose and dont know what its purpose is. 

 

https://www.perfprotech.com/mercury-marine-parts-catalog/searchserial?search=0T515597

[QuattroGinger]

So my buddy just confirmed. I have been completely confused about the pisser location. Little embarrassed. thought it was the little squares on the backside which has been the only place I've had water spraying out. I have had none from the small hole in bottom corner of cowl this entire time. Ugh. Going to do whole pump kit now and pull that hose to make sure it's not clogged. 

[WRB]

Try running a wire down the pee hole a few inches as it could be clogged by a insect. 

The plugs are fouled, replace them.

The water pump impeller looks flexible but change it. 

Aligning the drive shaft spline can be tricky if you moved it and more then likely did.

If you have water coming out of the engine cowl something is leaking. Run the engine without the cowl on and look for the leak source when it's together and water running through it.

Find the fuel filter and replace it.

Tom

[QuattroGinger]

thanks. just to clarify, the hose connecting from above my spark plugs and down to bottom cowl is the pee hole correct? is it safe to use my air compressor while bottom unit is dropped out on water line to try and blow anything out that may be obstructing?

[Way2slow]

I would not use high pressure air to blow back into the powerhead.  You have to remember that system is designed to operate between 20-30psi.  You start blowing high pressure air in there, the thermostat is closed and there are some fairly small passages that could restrict the air enough to greatly raise the pressure inside the block and damage/blow gaskets.

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but I've found a dirt dobber loves ready made holes and will plug one in a heartbeat with a nest, and it usually takes something hard to break it up and get it out.

[QuattroGinger]

plugs installed. ran coat hanger up pee hole and did pull out a bunch of nasty mud that stunk so hoping that along with rubber washer and fitting on top of pump being busted was reason i never saw it pee. 

 

also confirmed shift linkage was good. shifted into reverse without problem while bottom unit is out. just waiting on the pump to be delivered tomorrow.  

 

i found a mercury service document, mostly of pictures but it shows that i should lube up the impeller with a multipurpose grease. is this correct?

[QuattroGinger]

i cant find torque specs anywhere for the 4 outer bolts on the lower unit. Does anyone know what they should be? thanks

 

Update: impeller included in the SEI pump kit wouldnt fit. it has a brass fitting for the center and key is no where close to sitting flush in it. reused previous impeller because it seemed to be in good condition. Additionally i can see washer lifting now when shifting gears. going into reverse without issue. great to see that for the first time.

[WRB]

A general rule is tighten to snug then 1/4 turn more, you don't want to get too aggressive with aluminum. 

Do you have a Merc dealer near you? If you do try visiting and talking to a service mechanic

Tom

[Bolar]

Any up dates?

[QuattroGinger]

fell little behind. wife had to go out of town for work and we have 2 little ones. i'll be getting outside in next couple days to replace fuel filter and start up. 

[QuattroGinger]

ok. finally got some time to get outside. took several tries but she started up and is peeing for the first time! i even have reverse now! my question now is how hot should the pee be? after 5-10 mins of idling it was pretty darn warm. cut it off for minute to see if it would start back up and it did first try, it even sped itself up to good rpm. idling better now than any other time since picking it up. 

[WRB]

Put your boat with engine in a lake and run it.

Tom