FG knot and line sizes

[LuffDaddy]

Hey guys, quick question about the fg knot. When I first started using a baitcaster, I used 20 lb braid and tied a 15 lb fluorocarbon leader with an FG knot and its been phenomenonal. I got another rod and put 50 lb braid on it but when I try to do an FG with the same 15 lb fluorocarbon, I can't get the coils to dig in and grip. The fluorocarbon just slides out. What I'm thinking is that the braid has to be a smaller diameter than the leader it's trying to grip. Am I right about this?  I don't wanna go buy a spool of 20 lb fluorocarbon and find out I just tied a couple shoddy knots.  TYIA!

[Beetlebz]

Line diameter doesnt have a ton to do with it.  If everything a smaller diameter braid helps.  When you are going down in size it becomes more and more important to make your loops extremely tight as you tie it.  When I used to use the fg knot sometimes I'd have one or two loose loops in it that weren't perfect and it slipped right apart. Once it's good it's good and very strong, but I switched to the Alberto and never looked back. I can tie it in my kayak in a fraction of the time and it's not picky.

[NHBull]

I have found that with bigger braid, rubbing off any coating is essential .

Also, tightening it every 6 wraps helps.  Finish with one half-hitch then do the rizzoto(Sp) finish.  When I cut the FC I use the Berkeley hot tip, which leaves a bit of a knob.....you can use a match to do the same. 

 

[MickD]

The biggest contributor to a successful FG knot is to keep the braid under substantial tension all the time.  If this is accomplished the braid will lay on the leader tightly with every weave looking perfect.  The challenge in doing this has always been that most of the time I couldn't keep the braid under tension in my teeth-sooner or later it would slip.  Here is what changed my FG life-and is a lot more comfortable on the teeth.  Get one of those reusable twist ties from a hardware store, one of those about 3/16 in diameter, about 6 inches long.  They have a soft surface and a wire inside.  Bend it into a V and wrap the braid around it a few times at the V, then bite on it and the thread together.  No slip, no tooth discomfort, no chance of damaging the teeth, and you can hold good tension on the braid while you make the weaves.  The form of the knot is perfect, and since each weave can be made quite tight, when you get twenty of them on the leader, there will be no slip.  Now maybe there are some lines I haven't tried that need their coating scrubbed off, so that should help.  But since I've been doing it this way I get a perfect knot every time, and no tendency to slip while doing the half hitches.  I tension it very tightly after doing the weaves just as before, but now I never get one that slips during tensioning.  

[looking45]

50 minutes ago, Beetlebz said:

Line diameter doesnt have a ton to do with it.  If everything a smaller diameter braid helps.  When you are going down in size it becomes more and more important to make your loops extremely tight as you tie it.  When I used to use the fg knot sometimes I'd have one or two loose loops in it that weren't perfect and it slipped right apart. Once it's good it's good and very strong, but I switched to the Alberto and never looked back. I can tie it in my kayak in a fraction of the time and it's not picky.

Same here, gave up on the FG because it slipped more often than not. The Alberto is a lot easier to tie 

[NHBull]

I keep a spring loaded clip in my bag and use the clip to attach the braid to my shirt.

This allows me to see and use 2 hands. Can tie the knot in 60 seconds

[Paul Roberts]

20 minutes ago, MickD said:

The biggest contributor to a successful FG knot is to keep the braid under substantial tension all the time. ... 

Agree. I keep firm tension all three strands, and I tug them tight on every turn. At the end, I pull everything tight.

20 minutes ago, MickD said:

The biggest contributor to a successful FG knot is to keep the braid under substantial tension all the time. ... 

 

[LuffDaddy]

Well you guys are gonna think this is crazy but I actually have a method to tie it where you don't need any tension on the braid. I figured out what I did wrong the times its been slipping. Whoever said something about the coating is half right. I just tied this knot 10 times and tested pulling both spools with everything I got and the knot didn't fail. When you tie it on line that doesn't have a slick coating, it'll cinch down when to pull on them after the two hitch knots. If it is slick in any way at all, you just have to do each wrap VERY tight. I'll make a video if you guys wanna see it. Still takes me about 2 minutes, but nothing near what the tension method takes. 

[Paul Roberts]

Yes! Lay it on us.

[LionHeart]

I'll take a video.  I'm pretty much a fan boy of the FG, and always eager to learn new things.

 

My method takes about 10 minutes and would be tough to do on a boat.

[fishwizzard]

4 hours ago, NHBull said:

I keep a spring loaded clip in my bag and use the clip to attach the braid to my shirt.

This allows me to see and use 2 hands. Can tie the knot in 60 seconds

I have never gotten the FG to work, but that sounds far better then what I was doing, I am going to give it a try!

[Further North]

I tie FGs with 30# braid to 7# co-poly lines all the time...works fine.  Lasts for weeks, if not months, if I don't beat up the leader too much.

 

If you haven't already figured it out, consider a few more wraps, it'll only take a couple extra seconds.  I've gone up to 30.

 

Cinch it tight as soon as as you've got that first half hitch in it.  How tight?  You need to see a color change where the braid bites into the leader.

 

...looking forward to the video!

[BrackishBassin]

Lots of great info on tying an FG knot.

 

https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/how-to-tie-the-fg-knot/

 

It does take some practice, but you are correct. The larger the braid and smaller the diameter of the leader, the hard it is to tie correctly. Personally, I’ve never tried using it with anything heavier than 30lb braid. Fish here aren’t super line shy, in my experience. So, I just use leaders to save money or if I want some give with whatever I’m fishing (e.g. crankbaits or topwaters that aren’t a frog). 

[LuffDaddy]

Hey guys I'm gonna make a video after work today.  I learned the crazy Alberto last night and I gotta admit.... I might start using that instead. The main reason is that one misstep with the FG and it'll fail. That crazy alberto seems to be pretty fool proof. And Further North, you are absolutely right about the color change. That's always been my sign that it did bite the leader.  

[MickD]

Funny how some knots work for some people but not all.  I have never experienced reliable Albertos.  It could be because of the sharp twitching I do so often with smaller swim baits.  Or there is something in my technique that is wrong, but I've tried it dozens of times, so have given up on it.  The FG is a knot that has many ways of doing it wrong, and small differences in technique, that may not even be noticeable to the tyer, can result in a failure.

 

It wasn't until I tried the tool in my previous post that I got to the point that the knot could be tensioned before the half hitches with no instances of the leader sliding out.  One thing that might help is to notice the shape and symmetry of the knot before you tension it.  If it looks loose, bumpy with weaves out of place, it most likely will fail sooner or later.  If the weaves are perfectly aligned, tight to each other, it most likely can be tensioned properly and will not fail.

 

The method on the internet which doesn't require loading the braid during weaving is, in my opinion, less reliable than the braid-tension method.  Without the tension on the braid it is difficult to hold everything tight and to get perfectly aligned and tight weaves.  I gave up on that one quite a while ago.

[Further North]

8 hours ago, LuffDaddy said:

Hey guys I'm gonna make a video after work today.  I learned the crazy Alberto last night and I gotta admit.... I might start using that instead. The main reason is that one misstep with the FG and it'll fail. That crazy alberto seems to be pretty fool proof. And Further North, you are absolutely right about the color change. That's always been my sign that it did bite the leader.  

I love the Alberto and use it almost exclusively when I'm building fly fishing leaders...unless I'm making a pike/musky leader, then the final connection from mono/fluoro/co-poly to wire leader is an FG.

 

I go almost 100% the other way when fishing with gear as the FG goes through guides better than the Alberto, but I seldom have issues with my FGs and If I do they show up as I'm testing them after tying.

 

The one exception is Knot-2-Kinky leader material.  There's no way anyone's ever gonna get an FG to work on it as there's nothing to bite into, so I use an Alberto to tie in the 15# leader on my Mepps rod.

[Further North]

5 hours ago, MickD said:

Funny how some knots work for some people but not all.

No kidding.  I've often mentioned that I hate tying the Palomar.

 

I understand that it's a great knot, and I understand that most people have no problem with it...but I do.  Dunno why.  I use it anyway, but I hate tying it...

23 hours ago, MickD said:

Get one of those reusable twist ties from a hardware store, one of those about 3/16 in diameter, about 6 inches long.  They have a soft surface and a wire inside.  Bend it into a V and wrap the braid around it a few times at the V, then bite on it and the thread together.  No slip, no tooth discomfort, no chance of damaging the teeth, and you can hold good tension on the braid while you make the weaves.

5 hours ago, MickD said:

It wasn't until I tried the tool in my previous post that I got to the point that the knot could be tensioned before the half hitches with no instances of the leader sliding out.

Any chance you can take a photo and post it?  Sounds like a great idea.

 

...another trick is to tie a quick loop in the tag end of the braid, loop it around the reel handle, snug it up and then you can tie the knot with the rod in your lap, or where ever it works best for you.  Don't get it too tight though, that creates its own problems.

 

[FryDog62]

On 9/25/2018 at 4:31 PM, MickD said:

The biggest contributor to a successful FG knot is to keep the braid under substantial tension all the time.  If this is accomplished the braid will lay on the leader tightly with every weave looking perfect.  The challenge in doing this has always been that most of the time I couldn't keep the braid under tension in my teeth-sooner or later it would slip.  Here is what changed my FG life-and is a lot more comfortable on the teeth.  Get one of those reusable twist ties from a hardware store, one of those about 3/16 in diameter, about 6 inches long.  They have a soft surface and a wire inside.  Bend it into a V and wrap the braid around it a few times at the V, then bite on it and the thread together.  No slip, no tooth discomfort, no chance of damaging the teeth, and you can hold good tension on the braid while you make the weaves.  The form of the knot is perfect, and since each weave can be made quite tight, when you get twenty of them on the leader, there will be no slip.  Now maybe there are some lines I haven't tried that need their coating scrubbed off, so that should help.  But since I've been doing it this way I get a perfect knot every time, and no tendency to slip while doing the half hitches.  I tension it very tightly after doing the weaves just as before, but now I never get one that slips during tensioning.  

I skip the whole mouth thing and use a Hook-Eze:

 

 

[FryDog62]

Very few will go to these lengths to make the FG fail-safe, but I have done all this on my Flippin’ rod with the exception of burning the end and it has held all year easily...

 

https://***/outdoors/bass-fishing/Article/How-to-Tie-the-Super-FG-Knot-With-Seth-Feider-121515463/

[MickD]

Here is the twist tie that I mentioned recently.

[Further North]

On 9/27/2018 at 8:15 AM, FryDog62 said:

Very few will go to these lengths to make the FG fail-safe, but I have done all this on my Flippin’ rod with the exception of burning the end and it has held all year easily...

 

https://***/outdoors/bass-fishing/Article/How-to-Tie-the-Super-FG-Knot-With-Seth-Feider-121515463/

Is this the same video?

 

 

On 9/27/2018 at 8:23 AM, MickD said:

Here is the twist tie that I mentioned recently.

Thanks Mick.

 

I keep a few of those in the boat already, will try it out tomorrow.

[FryDog62]

45 minutes ago, Further North said:

Is this the same video?

 

 

Thanks Mick.

 

I keep a few of those in the boat already, will try it out tomorrow.

Yes, same video...