New tournament circuit announced today

[Rick Howard]

I don't think TV coverage matters if your audience doesn't have cable.  TV is there to advertise to those who already watch.  If TV is their only plan than it's not a good plan.

 

Let me frame my comment different.  I read, BPT/MLF is going to grow the sport.  I've read nothing on how they intend to do so.

 

Currently we have a blanket statement on growing the sport.  I would like them to acknowledge and address the other issues that lead them in this direction.  

 

Having another tour may be a a really good start.  First it creates competition between tours to draw the best anglers to each.  Second it has created more spots for more anglers.  This is my speculation; Not MLF statement.  Now that The Who is who isn't has concluded.  I'd like to hear what the plan is for growth of the game.  If they can't back up those statements it will appear as a cash grab by selected anglers desguised as something else.

 

Food for thought... Maybe pro anglers are asking for more than the sport can provide.  We all love this sport.  Maybe our passion blinds us to the fact, Bass fishing is not that popular.  In your day to day life how many of your friends and colleagues fish?  How many for bass?  How many exclusive to bass?  Im not saying that you have to be exclusive but it's more likely that person is your audience. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fishwizzard]

1 hour ago, Rick Howard said:

 Maybe our passion blinds us to the fact, Bass fishing is not that popular.  In your day to day life how many of your friends and colleagues fish?  How many for bass?  How many exclusive to bass?  Im not saying that you have to be exclusive but it's more likely that person is your audience. 

"According to the most recent National Survey of Fishing, Hunting and Wildlife-Associated Recreation, produced by various federal agencies, bass are the most popular fishing target in America. Nearly 36 million people older than 16 went fishing in 2016, and they spent some $43 billion on equipment and travel. By rough comparison, about 24 million Americans played golf in 2016, according to the National Golf Foundation, and they spent about $32 billion on the same categories."

 

From the NYTimes article posted on the last page.  I guess I would have though "fishing" as a whole would be more popular then golf, but not by nearly that much.   

 

In terms of "friends and colleagues", I think it depends on where you live and what you do.  I live by the Chesapeake Bay and work in the event/entertainment industry, so I run into very few bass fisherman but a decent number of saltwater guys.  

[Gundog]

Just my opinion but I think ESPN, who owned BASS for a time, dropped BASS once they saw it wasn't as profitable as they thought it would be and then just used the BASS tournaments as nothing more than a slot filler for their schedule. They didn't seem interested in advertising or consistently placing the tourneys in the same time slot or even the same channel. Now, at times, BASS tourneys might be on at 7, 8 or 9 am, Saturday or Sunday and on ESPN 1, 2 or 3. With changes like that its no wonder tv viewership is terrible. The Outdoor Channel seems to be willing to play MLF on a more routine schedule. Again, just my opinion.

[SWVABass]

I believe they also have a contract with cbs?? I think the idea of an all fish count tourney appeals to a lot of folks. I work with at least five other guys who bass fish. None of them like the idea of a five fish tourney. They all do enjoy MLF formats and will watch it. 

 

I think MLF will need to developed a strategy on how to involve youth anglers as BASS and FLW have. With a format that draws more attention, one that will be viewed better in the eyes of non-fisherman (catch-weigh-immediate release), and the possible interest from non fishing sponsors I don’t see how they don’t have the potential to grow the sport.

[J.Vincent]

The strategy or the potential strategy and infrastructure is possible with the score tracker software the MLF and BPT are using to log catches. The software tutorials are in their main webpage and can be adopted by fish clubs or sanctioned Trails. When the public gets on board , then there will be a universal way to track catches at non BPT events. This is all down the road and in the pipeline from what I understand and will or could lead to a new standard 

[Rick Howard]

3 hours ago, fishwizzard said:

"According to the most recent National Survey of Fishing, Hunting and Wildlife-Associated Recreation, produced by various federal agencies, bass are the most popular fishing target in America. Nearly 36 million people older than 16 went fishing in 2016, and they spent some $43 billion on equipment and travel. By rough comparison, about 24 million Americans played golf in 2016, according to the National Golf Foundation, and they spent about $32 billion on the same categories."

 

From the NYTimes article posted on the last page.  I guess I would have though "fishing" as a whole would be more popular then golf, but not by nearly that much.   

 

In terms of "friends and colleagues", I think it depends on where you live and what you do.  I live by the Chesapeake Bay and work in the event/entertainment industry, so I run into very few bass fisherman but a decent number of saltwater guys.  

Interesting numbers.  I would be one arm short (probably the left arm) if I had made a bet on more golfers vs. anglers.  I don't think those numbers give us the whole picture though.  For one the number of people who went fishing is segmented.  Golf is golf (they are not counting mini golf).  I think a much higher percentage of people who play golf also watch it.

 

[Tim Kelly]

23 minutes ago, Rick Howard said:

  I think a much higher percentage of people who play golf also watch it.

 

Maybe that's because it's televised? I expect that's what they're hoping the MLF tour is going to do for fishing?

 

BTW. It's interesting that a lot of the matchplay and Ryder cup type events are much more exciting to watch on telly, but the traditional classics are still the mainstay of the interest. I do wonder whether bass anglers are going to tired of the tiddler snatching format and request a traditional big five style tournament. Don't see why it can't be done MLF style still with anglers knowing what the other guys best five weigh and how much they need to cull to beat them. I don't see how that would be any less exciting.

[Brad Reid]

I'd only add that multiple leagues rarely last. Only one is likely to succeed; or, the others will be absorbed.

 

I am just going by history. NFL and AFL in football, National and American leagues in baseball, NBA and ABA in basketball. What generally happens is one organization is deemed to have better talent and once it "tips" even a bit in one direction, that one gets 90% of the viewership/sponsorships/better athletes.

 

And, multiple leagues can lead to disastrous results. Look at boxing. Everyone, EVERYONE, sports fan or not, knew who the heavyweight boxing champ was through at least the Ali era. Today? Few could even name him. The beginning of the end happened in boxing when there were multiple people claiming championships. Confusing and a turn off. Don King effect.

 

Other sports have been totally ruined by letting athletes have too much control over the rules. It happens. It often isn't pretty.

 

I like the MLF format for viewing personally. Good point, for sure, about catching 50 one pounders . . . but such a simple "cure" exists. MLF can always designate a higher minimum weight.

 

I know some things BASS could and should do to stay relevant. It certainly isn't a good time to vapor lock or get defensive or mad. Time to get competitive!

 

Brad

[Scott F]

20 minutes ago, Tim Kelly said:

Maybe that's because it's televised? I expect that's what they're hoping the MLF tour is going to do for fishing?

 

BTW. It's interesting that a lot of the matchplay and Ryder cup type events are much more exciting to watch on telly, but the traditional classics are still the mainstay of the interest. I do wonder whether bass anglers are going to tired of the tiddler snatching format and request a traditional big five style tournament. Don't see why it can't be done MLF style still with anglers knowing what the other guys best five weigh and how much they need to cull to beat them. I don't see how that would be any less exciting.

Isn’t tiddler snatching the way match fishing tournaments in Europe are done?  Why hasn’t that gone to a biggest five competition.

If the traditional big five style is so great, how did MLF come in with their non traditional style and take over? The new format has garnered the highest ratings of any show on the Outdoor Channel and all the big name pros ran from the traditional format to compete in it. If the biggest name pros didn’t like the new format, they’d have stayed where they were.

[moguy1973]

4 hours ago, Swbass15 said:

I believe they also have a contract with cbs?? I think the idea of an all fish count tourney appeals to a lot of folks. I work with at least five other guys who bass fish. None of them like the idea of a five fish tourney. They all do enjoy MLF formats and will watch it. 

 

I think MLF will need to developed a strategy on how to involve youth anglers as BASS and FLW have. With a format that draws more attention, one that will be viewed better in the eyes of non-fisherman (catch-weigh-immediate release), and the possible interest from non fishing sponsors I don’t see how they don’t have the potential to grow the sport.

MLF actually has a contract with CBS and Discovery now.  Being on Discovery is big as a lot of people don't have Outdoor TV.

[Tim Kelly]

7 hours ago, Scott F said:

Isn’t tiddler snatching the way match fishing tournaments in Europe are done?  Why hasn’t that gone to a biggest five competition.

If the traditional big five style is so great, how did MLF come in with their non traditional style and take over? The new format has garnered the highest ratings of any show on the Outdoor Channel and all the big name pros ran from the traditional format to compete in it. If the biggest name pros didn’t like the new format, they’d have stayed where they were.

You're right tiddler snatching is big in european match fishing. The reason is that they are fishing for multiple species and the aim is to get the biggest total weight, so often you can catch a bigger weight of tiddlers than you can of the less numerous larger species. Euro match fishing makes terrible television!

 

The great key to the MLF style is that it creates tension between the competitors as they know what everyone has. I don't think it would matter whether they knew what the other angler's best five were, the tension would remain.

[12poundbass]

7 hours ago, Tim Kelly said:

The great key to the MLF style is that it creates tension between the competitors as they know what everyone has. I don't think it would matter whether they knew what the other angler's best five were, the tension would remain.

This right here! I believe this is why it's taken off and why it's so highly rated on the Outdoor Chanel and why you've seen it on Discovery and CBS. My dad has watched it and he doesn't even fish! 

 

I've caught myself a couple times becoming anxious towards the end when a guy I was rooting for needed a weighable fish to make the cut. 

 

I think three tours will make it for a few years, then maybe the FLW becomes the feeder system for the BPT.

[pigeonlake]

On 10/21/2018 at 12:17 PM, Rick Howard said:

I don't think TV coverage matters if your audience doesn't have cable.  TV is there to advertise to those who already watch.  If TV is their only plan than it's not a good plan.

 

Let me frame my comment different.  I read, BPT/MLF is going to grow the sport.  I've read nothing on how they intend to do so.

 

Currently we have a blanket statement on growing the sport.  I would like them to acknowledge and address the other issues that lead them in this direction.  

 

Having another tour may be a a really good start.  First it creates competition between tours to draw the best anglers to each.  Second it has created more spots for more anglers.  This is my speculation; Not MLF statement.  Now that The Who is who isn't has concluded.  I'd like to hear what the plan is for growth of the game.  If they can't back up those statements it will appear as a cash grab by selected anglers desguised as something else.

 

Food for thought... Maybe pro anglers are asking for more than the sport can provide.  We all love this sport.  Maybe our passion blinds us to the fact, Bass fishing is not that popular.  In your day to day life how many of your friends and colleagues fish?  How many for bass?  How many exclusive to bass?  Im not saying that you have to be exclusive but it's more likely that person is your audience. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Totally agree with this all of it especially the last part.  Mercer said it best years ago regarding sponsors.  Always under promise and overdeliver  not the other way around

[Rick Howard]

Good thought on the Ryder Cup.  That might be an interesting concept in fishing.  Maybe it's between states though?  I'd watch that.   Every two years, new lake each time, 50 2person teams, match play, Winner takes home a trophy that passes to the next winners.  What state are you folks betting on? 

 

A good point to an early comparison of golf and fishing.  Golf reaches every continent, except Antarctica, in a very large way.  Uhhhh humans have even brought the game to the moon!  Kinda lol.  

[redux]

Arey has jumped to BASS and said there's another FLW angler who is coming with. No word on who that is.

 

JT Kenny is no longer fishing the BPT and instead is doing commentary for BPT and maybe fishing the Gator BFLs. He said he's done fishing Pro tours. Makes sense since he has been doing terrible since he cut his hair. Funny enough he's growing it back out and things are starting to work for him again. Keep it growing JT.  

 

Gagliardi is moving to the BPT following Kenney's shuffle.

 

Seems like there is a lot left to shake out for the BPT and it is not anywhere near as cut and dry as the initial press release made us all think.

[Tim Kelly]

Gussy, the Canadian LOTW guy with the Lund said he was going to BASS on facebook.

[Rpratt]

I really believe that the MLF has done one thing that BASS as a televised format did not really do. And that is promote the anglers. The MLF made it a point and maybe it was just by default by the format itself, to get you the viewer to get to know the anglers. My wife loved the show even though she doesn't fish much just for this reason alone. She was able to sit there and say this one was her favorite, or didn't really like this guy because of his personality. Shaw Grigsby is her favorite if you were wondering. It created a I care about this angler because with the format they were featured or SEEN more. My wife  (and myself) when the show started were wondering ok who is on this week, and who are they fishing against. As mentioned the show in it's initial startup already had some sort of initial tension buildup. And they keep it going the whole show.

 

BASS as a televised format, well they normally only focus on who is ahead, and really not much I guess you would call any kind of affinity towards the angler. 

 

Last small point is although when both are televised, the tournaments are already played out. The difference is we know the BASS results are already well known, however you have no clue as to the MLF. Again, can't build up tension or much real drama or an audience except for the hard core who want to see the replay of a fish caught a month or so earlier. 

 

[J Francho]

BASS has live coverage, too.  MLF does not.

[Rpratt]

That is true, but as I said, it normally only concentrates on the leaders. I guess what I am trying to say is thru MLF, a casual fan can get to know the whole field. The example I use, my wife, can now recognize and tell you about everyone on the show. You can't do that with the format BASS has used. They wanted to, ESPN even described turning BASS into the new NASCAR, hence the leap into sponsor logos everywhere etc etc. It just did not work on the same level as the MLF format.

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

  MLF does not

Yet

4 minutes ago, Rpratt said:

That is true, but as I said, it normally only concentrates on the leaders. I guess what I am trying to say is thru MLF, a casual fan can get to know the whole field. The example I use, my wife, can now recognize and tell you about everyone on the show. You can't do that with the format BASS has used. They wanted to, ESPN even described turning BASS into the new NASCAR, hence the leap into sponsor logos everywhere etc etc. It just did not work on the same level as the MLF format.

I agree with you. I ocassionaly watch BASS Live from time to time and enjoy it. But watching MLF you do get to know the anglers better. Keith Poche and Andy Montgomery are two that come to mind. Poche all I really new about him was his 'interaction' with Ish. After watching him on MLF he seems like a cool guy. He explains things well and I've learned a thing or two from him. 

 

Andy Montgomery I've learned from too. He's another that seems pretty cool and he's pretty darn funny. Another thing I've learned from him was he is one hell of a dock skipper! I watched one episode last year where he skipped it between an outboard and a toon on a pontoon! Blew me away. 

 

The more a person gets to know an angler the more apt they are to buy a product that angler is using, this potentially increasing that anglers value. I personally don't buy products because a particular angler is using it or pushing it, but a lot do especially the average Joe angler. 

[BassNJake]

4 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

Yet

I agree with you. I ocassionaly watch BASS Live from time to time and enjoy it. But watching MLF you do get to know the anglers better. Keith Poche and Andy Montgomery are two that come to mind. Poche all I really new about him was his 'interaction' with Ish. After watching him on MLF he seems like a cool guy. He explains things well and I've learned a thing or two from him. 

 

Andy Montgomery I've learned from too. He's another that seems pretty cool and he's pretty darn funny. Another thing I've learned from him was he is one hell of a dock skipper! I watched one episode last year where he skipped it between an outboard and a toon on a pontoon! Blew me away. 

 

The more a person gets to know an angler the more apt they are to buy a product that angler is using, this potentially increasing that anglers value. I personally don't buy products because a particular angler is using it or pushing it, but a lot do especially the average Joe angler. 

It's a lot easier to provide more coverage on 8 guys than it is 110.

This will change with the new format MLF is running.

Now that they have 80 guys, the coverage will be a lot less.

 

Then it will become the guys that are doing the best get the most camera time...

And now guys like Marty Robinson and Fletcher Shryock will be back to not winning events and not getting camera time.

So I really hope for their sake that the sponsor dollars have changed drastically for them based on tv viewership

 

MLF will come up with live coverage but it wont be free IMO.

Just like you can get access to old MLF events but at a cost.

 

 

[Jrob78]

There are quite a few notable FLW guys fishing the Elites next season.

 

Elite Series 
> Chris Zaldain (confirmed BPT invitee) 
> Keith Combs (non-BPT invitee) 
> Micah Frazier (non-BPT invitee) 
> Bill Lowen (confirmed BPT invitee) 
> Matt Herren (non-BPT invitee) 
> Seth Feider (confirmed BPT invitee) 
> Chad Pipkens (non-BPT invitee) 
> John Crews (non-BPT invitee) 
> Brandon Card (non-BPT invitee) 
> Cliff Prince (non-BPT invitee) 
> Mark Menendez (non-BPT invitee) 
> Drew Benton (confirmed BPT invitee) 
> Clifford Pirch (non-BPT invitee) 
> Hank Cherry (non-BPT invitee) 
> Jamie Hartman (non-BPT invitee) 
> Stetson Blaylock (confirmed BPT invitee) 
> Jason Williamson (non-BPT invitee) 
> Brandon Lester (non-BPT invitee) 
> Steve Kennedy (confirmed BPT invitee) 
> Brandon Lester (non-BPT invitee) 
> Clark Wendlandt (formerly FLW Tour) 
> Gary Clouse (confirmed BPT invitee) 
> Jeff Gustafson (non-BPT invitee) 
> Matt Arey (non-BPT invitee) 
> Chad Morgenthaler (non-BPT invitee) 
> Chris Johnston (non-BPT invitee) 
> Cory Johnston (non-BPT invitee) 
> Brandon Cobb (non-BPT invitee) 
> Patrick Walters (Opens qualifier) 
> Scott Canterbury (non-BPT invitee)
 

[Tim Kelly]

Look out for Chris and Cory Johnson on the St Lawrence next season!

[Arlo Smithereen]

14 hours ago, BassNJake said:

It's a lot easier to provide more coverage on 8 guys than it is 110.

This will change with the new format MLF is running.

Now that they have 80 guys, the coverage will be a lot less.

 

Then it will become the guys that are doing the best get the most camera time...

And now guys like Marty Robinson and Fletcher Shryock will be back to not winning events and not getting camera time.

So I really hope for their sake that the sponsor dollars have changed drastically for them based on tv viewership

 

MLF will come up with live coverage but it wont be free IMO.

Just like you can get access to old MLF events but at a cost.

 

 

Only 40 fish at a time, not 80. Party Marty and Fletcher are gonna be just fine, buddy.

[OCdockskipper]

3 hours ago, Arlo Smithereen said:

Only 40 fish at a time, not 80. Party Marty and Fletcher are gonna be just fine, buddy.

I believe the point he was making is now that their are 80 anglers per tournament instead of 24 or 30, the coverage of each angler will be less.  Even if they break the tournament up to an episode per day, there will be 40 anglers in each of the first 4 episodes as opposed to 6 - 10 that were in the previous MLF events.  Most likely they will focus on those who are in the hunt, but even if they didn't, each anglers TV time is cut by 300%.  If they had 10 minutes of camera time before, they will now get between 2 - 3 minutes.

 

So his point, that those who didn't get much camera time with BASS still won't get much camera time in the new MLF series unless they win (in which case, they would have gotten camera time with BASS as well), is correct.  Robinson & Fletcher got more exposure because of the small fields of the previous MLF events.