Worst thing a BOATER has done to you

[Ratherbfishing]

On 9/23/2018 at 8:42 PM, FishTank said:

Went flat out in a no wake zone in front of the DNR guys. Made for an expensive day.

Surely YOU weren't fined, were you?  Or was it the long delay that was so costly?

[FishTank]

7 hours ago, Ratherbfishing said:

Surely YOU weren't fined, were you?  Or was it the long delay that was so costly?

When you tick them off, they look for anything and everything from the size of the fish in your live well to the correct size and font of the registration stickers on your boat.   They got me for not having the correct size life vest (zipper was broke), plus for both of us> the going too fast in a no wake zone ticket (not sure how it was worded), open container (empty beer can that was not mine), and one fish over the limit. 

 

I know these guys are there to keep things safe for all boaters and they do a good job but sometimes they are just a little over the top when comes to the rules.

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, FishTank said:

When you tick them off, they look for anything and everything from the size of the fish in your live well to the correct size and font of the registration stickers on your boat.   They got me for not having the correct size life vest (zipper was broke), plus for both of us> the going too fast in a no wake zone ticket (not sure how it was worded), open container (empty beer can that was not mine), and one fish over the limit. 

 

I know these guys are there to keep things safe for all boaters and they do a good job but sometimes they are just a little over the top when comes to the rules.

Wow what state do you live in??? They allow you to drink beer on the lake in Tennessee, just can’t be over the limit. Also I have never heard of a passenger getting a ticket for riding too fast hahah. I bet a judge would have thrown that out but then you would have to go to court and probably pay for that . The one fish over the limit they will get you for every time anywhere in the country 

[FishTank]

24 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Wow what state do you live in??? They allow you to drink beer on the lake in Tennessee, just can’t be over the limit. Also I have never heard of a passenger getting a ticket for riding too fast hahah. I bet a judge would have thrown that out but then you would have to go to court and probably pay for that . The one fish over the limit they will get you for every time anywhere in the country 

It was on Raccoon Lake in Indiana about 12 years ago.  I was fishing with a guy I didn't know that well and he gunned his 200hp(?) Evinrude in a no wake zone for no apparent reason.  We went past a point close to shore and the DNR guys were there on the other side.  We were well inside the markers.  I guess if you're in the boat, you're guilty.  This was my first time, other than getting my licensed checked and making sure I had a life vest, that I was ever stopped.  Also, my first ticket on the water.  The guy driving the boat had a few beers, I had none.  We were lucky they did not tow us in. There were others that day without vests that got towed.  Made for a weird but memorable day.

[J Francho]

Open container?  In NY, there's no open container law in for boats, but the DWI restrictions (and punishments) are the same for the boat operator. 

[Bankbeater]

Many years ago I was a co-angler and my ride was about 2 hours late. It turns out that he liked the nightlife and decided to try out some of the local watering holes. 

[Sam]

I have been back boated by my club buddies. I can name four right off the top of my head.

 

In one Region 3 tournament on the Mattaponi River I filled in for the team's nonboater (he had to do something with his daughter) and I caught three and missed one while the boater caught one. The boater was really surprised and glad that I caught my three as it helped him in the standings. And he told everyone at weigh-in that I caught the three and he nailed only one so there would be no misunderstandings that he caught all four.

 

Another time, about 12 years ago, on the Chickahominy River in Virginia after a club tournament, I had a melt down. A total yelling and cussing melt down. I will never forget this. And my melt down lasted for about two hours after weigh-in.

Since I am usually a quiet guy, the club members were really surprised by my going nuts.

 

The guy, who is one of my best friends now, was the boater. The problem was that we sat in one place for four hours because he caught a bass in this area when he prefished a few days earlier. He had caught a bass by a Cyprus tree in a creek off the main river. He refused to move or speak about moving. We just sat there. Four freaking hours.

 

All I did was feed the crabs my Senkos and all he did was sit in one position with his Zoom trick worm on the bottom, waiting for a bite. True dead sticking in the middle of the summer.

 

Another guy in the club laughed at us as he went by and told the guys at weigh-in that he passed us four times as he moved from place to place and thought we would win the tournament with a big bag since we never moved.

 

Finally, through my polarized sunglasses, I saw a bass swim around the tree and I told the boater where to throw his worm. Since he did not have polarized sunglasses he did not see the fish and after I yelled at him for about five to six seconds, he moved the worm to where I was pointing and the bass hit it. Only fish we caught that day.

 

Four hours in one place with no bites. And he refused to move.

 

I blasted him at weigh-in and the club president and vice president had a conversation with him as I was not the first club nonboater to have a problem with him back boating and not moving around enough.

 

He is set in his ways and he will not give up on a pattern even if it is not working. And he asked me a few months ago why he was not catching the bass at the same rate as the rest of the club members. I just smiled and said he will, one day.

 

Today, as I penned above, we are good friends and we have no problems. I have no idea if he back boats any of the other club members when they fish with him but since we went to a "team concept" it does not matter. I fished with him only one time since and we had to follow his milk run even though we were not catching them.

 

Guys, four hours in one place. No bites. No conversation. It can drive a guy to drink.

[Dirtyeggroll]

 

6 hours ago, Sam said:

Guys, four hours in one place. No bites. No conversation. It can drive a guy to drink.

What’s ironic is that this is most people’s perception of what fishing entails.

[riverbasser]

Been pretty fortunate with the few times I've been a co angler. Do have a similar story as above though with a boater pulling up on a spot swearing it was the deal and how even if they're not biting now the fish will move in. About 2.5 hours go by and we finally move only to go about a mile and he says "dang this is the spot I was thinking of not back there"

 

On a side note, what is yalls definition of back boating? Just curious

[Sam]

6 hours ago, riverbasser said:

Been pretty fortunate with the few times I've been a co angler. Do have a similar story as above though with a boater pulling up on a spot swearing it was the deal and how even if they're not biting now the fish will move in. About 2.5 hours go by and we finally move only to go about a mile and he says "dang this is the spot I was thinking of not back there"

 

On a side note, what is yalls definition of back boating? Just curious

When the boater positions the boat in a position that only he can hit the target; or the boater throws his bait to the target area at an angle upon arrival at the spot so that the guy in the back cannot throw to the target .

[TOXIC]

Most of the back boating I have been involved with the boater was totally unaware he was doing it.  A little "reminder" from me usually works.  Now if they are doing it intentionally, then we have a problem.  As a guide, I am always hyper focused on making sure everyone on the boat has "good water".  Sometimes I have had someone on the front deck with me, one in the well and one on the back deck.  

[Sam]

2 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

Most of the back boating I have been involved with the boater was totally unaware he was doing it.  A little "reminder" from me usually works.  Now if they are doing it intentionally, then we have a problem.  As a guide, I am always hyper focused on making sure everyone on the boat has "good water".  Sometimes I have had someone on the front deck with me, one in the well and one on the back deck.  

Toxic, I think they know they are doing it.

 

And I believe the majority don't care.

[TOXIC]

1 minute ago, Sam said:

Toxic, I think they know they are doing it.

 

And I believe the majority don't care.

Most club/tournament rules speak to that situation.  If intentional, I would drop a dime on them no hesitation.  

[Sam]

7 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

Most club/tournament rules speak to that situation.  If intentional, I would drop a dime on them no hesitation.  

I don't know of any club rules that prevent back boating.

 

I remember a story told by a state trooper who was a member of our club who was fishing as a nonboater on Kerr in the Fall Classic a number of years ago.

 

His boater must have weighed at least 350 pounds; refused to speak to my friend; did what he wanted even though the nonboater could have a say in where they would fish for half the day; and the boater kept his back to the trooper all day.

 

The Virginia Federation did nothing about it. It was just too bad and the luck of the draw.

 

 

[Logan S]

1 hour ago, TOXIC said:

Most of the back boating I have been involved with the boater was totally unaware he was doing it.  A little "reminder" from me usually works.  Now if they are doing it intentionally, then we have a problem.  As a guide, I am always hyper focused on making sure everyone on the boat has "good water".  Sometimes I have had someone on the front deck with me, one in the well and one on the back deck.  

You can't be throwing this in the discussion about boaters/co-anglers in a tournament...It's not even remotely the same situation and it leads to what is, IMO, a flawed perception of what 'backseating' actually is.  Your clients are paying you to take them fishing.  A co-angler is NOT paying the boater to take them fishing.  

 

Similarly, you can't compare how someone might operate in a team tournament or just out fun-fishing.  'Backseating' is pretty specific to boater/co-angler draw tournaments.  

 

8 hours ago, riverbasser said:

On a side note, what is yalls definition of back boating? Just curious

In my experience, real backseating - As in the intentional act of denying the non-boater opportunities - Is actually very rare.  Now, situations where the boater's plan/style/method/etc happens to put the non-boater at a disadvantage happen frequently...But that's not 'backseating' in my mind, it's just part of being a non-boater.  You can't expect your boater to guide you, they are in the tournament too and it's their boat...So if it comes down to the boater or co-angler getting the best shot at something, the boater is going to take that shot (and rightfully so).

 

I've been a tournament director so I've heard some official complaints about backseating and none were ever real backseating...Most often it's just guys that didn't get along or a non-boater with a flawed idea of what the boater 'owes' him.

 

If you're a co-angler/non-boater, you just need to live with the fact that you're along for the ride...99% of the time your boater will be a normal person and you'll get your shots if you know what you're doing.  But if you want to call the shots, you need to buy your own boat.  Might seem harsh, but it's the reality of the situation.  

[J Francho]

15 minutes ago, Logan S said:

A co-angler is NOT paying the boater to take them fishing.

I can point to several club situations where this was the reality. Joining a club was the only way for some to get off the banks.

[TOXIC]

 

 

17 minutes ago, Logan S said:

You can't be throwing this in the discussion about boaters/co-anglers in a tournament...It's not even remotely the same situation and it leads to what is, IMO, a flawed perception of what 'backseating' actually is.  Your clients are paying you to take them fishing.  A co-angler is NOT paying the boater to take them fishing.  

 

Similarly, you can't compare how someone might operate in a team tournament or just out fun-fishing.  'Backseating' is pretty specific to boater/co-angler draw tournaments. 

I was just saying that when I am in the boater position I unconsciously keep the boat positioned for my back seater to get in position.  I should have added.....EVEN IN TOURNAMENTS.....If it's fun fishing then there is no "Rules" beyond just being a good guy....I don't fun fish competitively.   But I specifically don't like the arrogant attitude of boaters who look negatively at a co angler, that is a problem with a lot of tournaments and where the bad blood gets started.  

 

There are rules and if your club/organization doesn't have them the re read your rules and if not in them, petition to have them added.  There is NO EXCUSE for a boater to play those types of games.  If they do that to me INTENTIONALLY, I'm gonna raise a ruckus just as I would expect someone to do if I did it to them.  

 

Examples Clipped from the rules:

 

Official Rules B.A.S.S. Nation Effective January 1, 2018

7. ANGLER CODE OF CONDUCT:

Intentionally interfering with a fellow angler’s ability to compete.

BASS Opens:

Any pro who, in the judgment of the officials, operates the boat in such a manner as to unfairly handicap their co-angler partner, shall be disqualified.

 

 

 

 

[Logan S]

49 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I can point to several club situations where this was the reality. Joining a club was the only way for some to get off the banks.

I can sympathize with the notion of wanting to get off the bank, but it doesn't make a boater your personal guide - Since you aren't paying ME, besides maybe chipping in for gas/expenses.

 

I've often said that for someone without a boat, being a co-angler in a club is the best deal possible to get out on the water...It's cheaper than hiring a guide or renting a boat and you still get to fish all day with someone who is likely experienced on the body of water you're fishing.  But someone shouldn't do this and expect a guide service as sort of a 'loophole'.  

 

42 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

 

 

I was just saying that when I am in the boater position I unconsciously keep the boat positioned for my back seater to get in position.  I should have added.....EVEN IN TOURNAMENTS.....If it's fun fishing then there is no "Rules" beyond just being a good guy....I don't fun fish competitively.   But I specifically don't like the arrogant attitude of boaters who look negatively at a co angler, that is a problem with a lot of tournaments and where the bad blood gets started.  

 

There are rules and if your club/organization doesn't have them the re read your rules and if not in them, petition to have them added.  There is NO EXCUSE for a boater to play those types of games.  If they do that to me INTENTIONALLY, I'm gonna raise a ruckus just as I would expect someone to do if I did it to them.  

 

Examples Clipped from the rules:

 

Official Rules B.A.S.S. Nation Effective January 1, 2018

7. ANGLER CODE OF CONDUCT:

Intentionally interfering with a fellow angler’s ability to compete.

BASS Opens:

Any pro who, in the judgment of the officials, operates the boat in such a manner as to unfairly handicap their co-angler partner, shall be disqualified.

Understand your sentiment and I agree about fun fishing.  It's great that you still operate that way in tournaments, but if other boaters don't operate that way it doesn't make them backseaters or bad boaters.  It's unfair to make that the standard to be measured to.  

 

Regarding rules and 'malicious' or 'intentional' acts....If my pattern is dock fishing, or running a spinnerbait close to the bank, or something else where the co-angler is going to be at a disadvantage....Am I being malicious or unfair?  Am I supposed to scrap my plans and do something different to appease the Co?  My answer is no...That's part of the game for Co's.

 

I'm not going to go out of my way to screw the co-angler, but this whole notion that any inconvenience to the co-angler whatsoever is considered rude/malicious/selfish/backseating/etc is garbage IMO.  If someone wants a guide they need to hire a guide.

 

There's a huge difference between situational/unavoidable disadvantages and intentional backseating...And in my experience that vast majority of complaints have to do with the 1st one and not the 2nd.  

[RichF]

50 minutes ago, Logan S said:

In my experience, real backseating - As in the intentional act of denying the non-boater opportunities - Is actually very rare.  Now, situations where the boater's plan/style/method/etc happens to put the non-boater at a disadvantage happen frequently...But that's not 'backseating' in my mind, it's just part of being a non-boater.

Agree 100%.  I've only had maybe one boater actually backboat me.  We were fishing docks.  It wasn't the fact that he hit everything before me (that's just dock fishing).  Every time he broke off, he would troll out of casting distance to re-tie.  To me, that was intentionally putting me at a disadvantage.  I definitely had a cause for complaint but I crushed him and won the tourney anyway soo...

 

[J Francho]

19 minutes ago, Logan S said:

I can sympathize with the notion of wanting to get off the bank, but it doesn't make a boater your personal guide - Since you aren't paying ME, besides maybe chipping in for gas/expenses.

 

I've often said that for someone without a boat, being a co-angler in a club is the best deal possible to get out on the water...It's cheaper than hiring a guide or renting a boat and you still get to fish all day with someone who is likely experienced on the body of water you're fishing.  But someone shouldn't do this and expect a guide service as sort of a 'loophole'.

That is definitely what is happening, and these are the worst non-boaters.  This can lead to some of the tension right when a new non steps on a boat.  I don't really have an issue with it, but some guys hate it.  I'm not gonna tie your baits, or tell you what to do, just stay out of my way, out of the trees, and if you catch one fish that contributes to our best five (team format) I consider the non boater an asset, even if they're just there for the boat ride.

[TOXIC]

I'm trying to be non-judgmental here because I have a boat, I consider myself to be a pretty good fisherman and I have been a backseater.  So, your pattern of thought that you are not a guide and since you own the boat it's tough luck if you backseat me either by chance or by design, it's OK, just part of the game...is totally wrong.  First throw away the notion that a backseater is a nOOb that doesn't know how to fish, doesn't own a boat, can't tie his own lures on or couldn't find fish in a bathtub.  Second, drop the premise that since it's your boat you are king of all you survey.  Per the rules you have a responsibility to not impede me from fishing.  It's not your choice it's a rule.  Now keep in mind I understand that if you are fishing docks and it's not easy for 2 to work a dock then you can at least position the boat to where I can fish around the dock.  If you put the boat nose straight in and I am left straight out the back of the boat, first I'm gonna say something to you.  Your response would determine if you are doing it intentionally.  You do it a second/third time it's obvious.  Per your example, if you are working a spinnerbait down a bank, I don't think you could position the boat in a way I couldn't fish.  If I feel you broke the rules, I'll file on you and let the TD make the call.  

 

I just get tired of hearing the worn out excuses of some of the boaters.....I pay insurance on my boat, I made the investment in a boat, I pay more for entry, which by the way gives you the right to fish your spots.  And on, and on.  Well, I have a boat and pay the same boat ownership expenses as you.  Just because I don't choose to use my boat in a tournament doesn't make me any less an angler.  So, as the boat owner can I blame you when you or I blank in the tournament?  No.  Can I tell you I don't want to kick in for fuel if you are going to run 25 miles up a river? No.  Can you look down on someone who is a co-angler....No again.  I think there are enough bad boater and bad co's to go around and I for once would like to hear of a constructive way to deal with the exceptions to the rule rather broad statements about an entire class of fisherman.    

[J Francho]

Not all boaters and non boaters are created equal.  I've been on plenty of others' boats in tournaments that had no clue what they were doing.  I've nons have no clue.  I've both where they were excellent anglers.  I've had jerks that were great sticks.  I've been on boats with nice guys that want to learn and get better.  I've fished with guys that felt like a nice day on the water with fishing with someone else is a win.  It's all over the board.  No one protocol works.  My game is to establish from the beginning that I want to win.  Whatever we have to do, and this is true for team or draw, let's make a plan for success.

[TOXIC]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

Not all boaters and non boaters are created equal.  I've been on plenty of others' boats in tournaments that had no clue what they were doing.  I've nons have no clue.  I've both where they were excellent anglers.  I've had jerks that were great sticks.  I've been on boats with nice guys that want to learn and get better.  I've fished with guys that felt like a nice day on the water with fishing with someone else is a win.  It's all over the board.  No one protocol works.  My game is to establish from the beginning that I want to win.  Whatever we have to do, and this is true for team or draw, let's make a plan for success.

I agree.  That's why I only fish team tournaments.  We are in it together win or lose.  Have one next week as a matter of fact.  I will be the backseater.  I would rather be back there myself.  

[J Francho]

9 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

That's why I only fish team tournaments.

Me too.  It's a much better time.

[Logan S]

@TOXIC...Intentionally screwing over the co-angler is a far cry from situational disadvantages that are inherent to the boater/co-angler format .  The former is why rules were written and the later is just part of tournament fishing.  

1 hour ago, TOXIC said:

First throw away the notion that a backseater is a nOOb that doesn't know how to fish, doesn't own a boat, can't tie his own lures on or couldn't find fish in a bathtub. 

Never said or implied this.  It really doesn't have any bearing on the discussion anyway.  

 

1 hour ago, TOXIC said:

Second, drop the premise that since it's your boat you are king of all you survey.  Per the rules you have a responsibility to not impede me from fishing.  It's not your choice it's a rule. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this..."My boat, my rules" applies to me.  I don't fish tournaments for the sake of others.  Doesn't mean I'm a jerk and I'm not rooting against the Co, but I'm going to do my own thing and sometimes that means the Co will be out of position.  It's not breaking those rules.  If someone wants to tally up all the times he was out of position and report them to the TD that's on him...I can say that in the hundreds of tournaments I've fished, I've never once received a complaint or been reported.  My co-anglers generally do well.  

 

Backseating happens 1000x more often on the internet than it does in real life.