Need help flipping

[Sellersrobe]

In my last tournament, my boat captain took us flipping in weeds for largemouth. I am almost strictly a smallmouth fisherman, so flipping is way out of my comfort zone. My boat captain was catching fish after fish, and I was getting nothing. I tried watching my line, tightening spool tension, etc. The only possibility I could think of was that I wasn't feeling the bites. My boat captain said the only possibility was that I wasn't getting bit, because I'd know if I did get bit. This guy knows what he is talking about, but I just can't imagine him catching 5 fish in 10 casts and me flipping for over an hour without anything. What do you guys think?

[NorthwestBasser]

Very possible you just never got bit. Flippin/pitching along a bank in a tournament can be brutal for the non boater, but not always. The biggest struggle is how your boater is attacking the area. If he is just jamming down the line standing on the trolling motor, making his pitches and moving on, you will have a hard time watching his targets and being able to cover the water he missed. The pace is just too fast. If you're a team, the whole point t of boat position is to put as much weight in the boat as possible, not to make sure the backseat is getting good action. So, flipping a line at pace isn't always the most fun strategy for the backseat guy, though productive and usually successful for the boat in general. I usually have this discussion with my non boater before the tournament. If it's head to head(non boater has his bag I have mine) I tell him I'll do everything I can to keep him in good position and give him virgin water and if he needs me to adjust something just let me know. If it's a team format, I tell him I'm gonna be putting the boat in the beat position for us to catch fish and that won't always mean he has the best opportunity to be the man. All that being said, I've had lots of successful co anglers pitch from the back. Right presentation at the right time right Target. There's a good chance if you were up front those 5 fish would have been on your hook.

[Sellersrobe]

7 minutes ago, NorthwestBasser said:

Very possible you just never got bit. Flippin/pitching along a bank in a tournament can be brutal for the non boater, but not always. The biggest struggle is how your boater is attacking the area. If he is just jamming down the line standing on the trolling motor, making his pitches and moving on, you will have a hard time watching his targets and being able to cover the water he missed. The pace is just too fast. If you're a team, the whole point t of boat position is to put as much weight in the boat as possible, not to make sure the backseat is getting good action. So, flipping a line at pace isn't always the most fun strategy for the backseat guy, though productive and usually successful for the boat in general. I usually have this discussion with my non boater before the tournament. If it's head to head(non boater has his bag I have mine) I tell him I'll do everything I can to keep him in good position and give him virgin water and if he needs me to adjust something just let me know. If it's a team format, I tell him I'm gonna be putting the boat in the beat position for us to catch fish and that won't always mean he has the best opportunity to be the man. All that being said, I've had lots of successful co anglers pitch from the back. Right presentation at the right time right Target. There's a good chance if you were up front those 5 fish would have been on your hook.

This makes perfect sense, the only thing was that he literally only made 10 casts and caught a fish on every other cast. He was there to show my partner and I (this was a high school tourney, so 2 anglers and a boat captain who owns the boat) what to do and put us on fish. He would show me where to fish and would actually cast after I had hit the hole. My bait went infront of those 5 fish before his did. Maybe I'm just very unlucky.

[NorthwestBasser]

20 minutes ago, Sellersrobe said:

This makes perfect sense, the only thing was that he literally only made 10 casts and caught a fish on every other cast. He was there to show my partner and I (this was a high school tourney, so 2 anglers and a boat captain who owns the boat) what to do and put us on fish. He would show me where to fish and would actually cast after I had hit the hole. My bait went infront of those 5 fish before his did. Maybe I'm just very unlucky.

Ahhh... Gotcha. Same bait, same fall rate? There are a few subtle variables that can influence a fish to bite or not. But if you were pitching to the same place just before he was I'd chalk it up to "ticking off the fish". Imagine those fish weren't biters, they we're in those spots for so e completely different reason. Your lure floats down past them and they pay it no attention. But by the second or third time, now it's angry and irritated so it strikes. Happens all the time. Most easily recognized while sight fishing  because you can literally observe this exact behavior.

[Sellersrobe]

1 minute ago, NorthwestBasser said:

Ahhh... Gotcha. Same bait, same fall rate? There are a few subtle variables that can influence a fish to bite or not. But if you were pitching to the same place just before he was I'd chalk it up to "ticking off the fish". Imagine those fish weren't biters, they we're in those spots for so e completely different reason. Your lure floats down past them and they pay it no attention. But by the second or third time, now it's angry and irritated so it strikes. Happens all the time. Most easily recognized while sight fishing  because you can literally observe this exact behavior.

This certainly makes me feel better  I was getting pretty frustrated because we couldn't keep the fish he had caught. lol

[scaleface]

Keep doing it  and only after you catch a couple will it start to click .

[Columbia Craw]

Attempting to learn a new technique on short notice can be a bit overwhelming. I encourage you to talk to the boat capt. again and discuss what he was doing and why. Compare his presentation to yours. Try to get back out there and give it a go. You can do it.

[Sellersrobe]

33 minutes ago, Columbia Craw said:

Attempting to learn a new technique on short notice can be a bit overwhelming. I encourage you to talk to the boat capt. again and discuss what he was doing and why. Compare his presentation to yours. Try to get back out there and give it a go. You can do it.

Yeah. Problem is that was my last tourney so I'll be stuck on the bank until next May  it is definitely something I will work on!

[Bluebasser86]

Catching fish behind a good flipper is rough. They'll be hitting all the good, obvious spots, catching all the aggressive and easily caught fish, leaving you with little to work with. 

 

Never, unless you're in an extremely target rich environment like standing timber, fish the exact same bait with the exact same size weight. At the very least, use a different size weight to get a different fall weight, but I'd suggest a completely different bait so you have a chance to catch the fish that might have ignored his bait. Compact baits that don't have lots of legs and flappers are best for grass because they slide through easier. A longer rod to help lift them as straight up out of the grass as possible, as well as braided line, will really help make your life easier. 

 

I love flipping grass, but it isn't the easiest technique to master. 

[TOXIC]

4 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Catching fish behind a good flipper is rough. They'll be hitting all the good, obvious spots, catching all the aggressive and easily caught fish, leaving you with little to work with. 

 

Never, unless you're in an extremely target rich environment like standing timber, fish the exact same bait with the exact same size weight. At the very least, use a different size weight to get a different fall weight, but I'd suggest a completely different bait so you have a chance to catch the fish that might have ignored his bait. Compact baits that don't have lots of legs and flappers are best for grass because they slide through easier. A longer rod to help lift them as straight up out of the grass as possible, as well as braided line, will really help make your life easier. 

 

I love flipping grass, but it isn't the easiest technique to master. 

Sage advice right there.  If the front of the boat is flipping, I'm doing something completely different.  

[Sellersrobe]

6 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Catching fish behind a good flipper is rough. They'll be hitting all the good, obvious spots, catching all the aggressive and easily caught fish, leaving you with little to work with. 

 

Never, unless you're in an extremely target rich environment like standing timber, fish the exact same bait with the exact same size weight. At the very least, use a different size weight to get a different fall weight, but I'd suggest a completely different bait so you have a chance to catch the fish that might have ignored his bait. Compact baits that don't have lots of legs and flappers are best for grass because they slide through easier. A longer rod to help lift them as straight up out of the grass as possible, as well as braided line, will really help make your life easier. 

 

I love flipping grass, but it isn't the easiest technique to master. 

I wish I could use that as an excuse, but I was the one in the front... lol I'd hit a target, then he'd tell me to watch him. He'd go for the exact same target and pull something out. It seemed like magic.

[GReb]

It took me years to become what I feel is above average at flipping. Jigs are my confidence baits now.

 

Bait presentation is everything. You want that lure to fall straight down. Ill even let some slack in the line as soon as it enters the water. Just enough to let it free fall straight down. I’ve mentioned here before that I don’t engage the spool immediately and use my thumb to control the line and a lot of times to set the hook. Most bites come on the initial fall. It’s all about hitting the correct spots with the perfect presentations. Hit every pocket, corner, etc. If two pieces of different structures meet your chances of a fish go up. If a pocket is created by wood your chances go up. If there’s a stump beside a Lilly pad, your chances go up. You get the drift. That what works for me. And once you get comfortable with it you can cover a lot of water and eliminate a lot of wasted casts. It basically becomes site fishing

[boostr]

3 hours ago, Sellersrobe said:

I wish I could use that as an excuse, but I was the one in the front... lol I'd hit a target, then he'd tell me to watch him. He'd go for the exact same target and pull something out. It seemed like magic.

Maybe you were going backwards...

[Mobasser]

There could have been a chance you were not feeling strikes. Flipping can be a deadly teqnique. But, it takes time and practice.Like others have said, use a different bait, and target spots that are different from the rest of the area.Sometimes a very slight change in cover can hold a good fish. 

[FishDewd]

I've caught exactly one bass flipping, and it also happened to be my first and so far only jig catch. Was bank beating and tossing it into exposed weeds and laydowns along the bank cause it was the only source of shade in the lake. Basically I was bouncing it slowly along the bottom. Bounced it once, twice, three times, let it sit... fourth time I felt something hit it, THUNK! Felt like that too. I knew it wasn't debris and set it straight up- got a fishy. But he was barely bigger than the jig lol.

[geo g]

I do things I'm comfortable with, and if I don't like something I don't do it.  If he is flipping thick cover, I would be working a big worm through the pad fields, working a frog slowly through the thick stuff, of working a chatterbait along the weed line edges.  A tournament is not the time to learn a new technique.

[Choporoz]

On 8/27/2018 at 11:05 AM, GReb said:

Bait presentation is everything. You want that lure to fall straight down. Ill even let some slack in the line as soon as it enters the water. Just enough to let it free fall straight down. I’ve mentioned here before that I don’t engage the spool immediately and use my thumb to control the line and a lot of times to set the hook. Most bites come on the initial fall. It’s all about hitting the correct spots with the perfect presentations.

This might be key for what you've described.  Even if everything seemed identical, your bait may have been falling 'differently'.  It took me years to get it through my head how much difference it makes for even slight differences in flips to a target.  If a target looks particularly ripe, I'll make a half dozen tosses until I get it 'close enough', 'straight up and down enough', or hit the 'right edge of the shadow', or 'just outside the current'....its crazy at times.  Sometimes I don't know if she just gets pizzzed off, or if I finally got it right -- but it isn't at all unusual that the first flip to a target gets ignored.

[BassNJake]

On 8/27/2018 at 8:01 AM, Sellersrobe said:

I wish I could use that as an excuse, but I was the one in the front... lol I'd hit a target, then he'd tell me to watch him. He'd go for the exact same target and pull something out. It seemed like magic.

This is where the teaching should have continued.

Did he mention anything he noticed differently from your presentation to his?

 

Same bait, same weight, same color?

Did his flips land very quietly with little to no splash and yours were a bit louder?

Was he hitting an edge(or center) of the target and you just a little outside of that area.

 

Identifying the differences (sometimes subtle) between successful actions vs unsuccessful actions are the keys to adding more pieces to help solve the puzzle for that given day.

 

Some days it will be a jig and other days it will be a senko, sometimes its right in the heart of the laydown/weeds other times its the outside edge that will produce. Everyday is a mystery and a challenge. In my experience if you catch a couple on the edges or if you catch a couple in the heart of the cover thats how the majority will be. That allows me to be more efficient and hit the higher percentage spot with the first flip.

 

 

[looking45]

I fish mostly deep reservoirs so there isn't much to flip. I've been taken on trips to the Ca Delta where there's enough tules, stumps and other stuff where you can flip all day if you want to. What I've noticed is most guys who flip run the bank too fast. They flip into a hole or pocket, pull it out and flip into another spot. I watch where they flip, but not for the obvious reason, so I can flip somewhere else. I always flip right into the same hole they do. They pull their bait out so fast the fish sometimes doesn't have time to react. When I flip into the hole, I let the bait sit . More often than not, I will get bit. The guys who are catching a lot of fish flipping are taking their time going down the bank.  The guy who took you didn't necessarily want you to catch the fish by letting you flip into the hole first.