Taking things to the next level.

[greentrout]

I've had the good luck to fish fish only State lakes both less than 300 acres when they were first opened years ago. The catch rate was outstanding with chunky healthy bass. Fast forward a few years not so. Had to really work for them. State lake manager said our boys and girls are now educated  -- plenty of bass in there.

 

Now I know this is anecdotal and not scientific but have seen small waters like this in my recreational LMB fishing over the last 20 yrs. or so.

 

good fishing...

 

[Mobasser]

I read an article years ago about the competition factor among bass. I think it's true. Smaller fish are a lot more likely to dart out and strike before another fish does. This could explain why many fisherman catch more numbers than size, even fishing over prime areas. I don't think big bass are"smarter". They are creatures of instinct too.

[slonezp]

13 hours ago, Catt said:

Learn: gain or acquire knowledge of or skill in (something) by study, experience, or being taught.

 

Learn your body of water; even if you bank fish.

 

Learn the food source; most under discussed subject on this site.

 

Have confidence in yourself; know your strengths & more importantly admit your weaknesses!

 

K.I.S.S. ?

 

Trophy or tournament fisherman use simple techniques to perfection to consistently catch bass.

 

Anglers often respond to failure and frustration by over-complicating theory and technique. As much as it helps our egos to regard a difficult task as complex, this type of thinking is often the biggest obstacle between you and your fishing success.

Agreed. I have learned as much about bass while fishing for panfish, as I have fishing for bass. I have caught bass, pike, musky, and catfish, all while fishing for bluegills, perch, and crappie. The common denominator being the forage. Where do I fish for panfish? Wherever their forage is. 

 

A fishes (notice I didn't say bass) instinct tells it to eat, protect itself, procreate, and that there is safety in numbers. In layman's terms, fish are eating, hiding, screwing, or just hanging out. These habits change seasonally and daily. A fisherman is a predator. He needs to locate fish that are eating, hiding, screwing, or just hanging out. The potential for larger fish lies within all 4 actions but I believe most of the year, the larger fish are solitary. They are hiding. Fish cover and structure near deep water....Uh-Oh  a Buck Perry reference.

[Spankey]

11 hours ago, Catt said:

Y'all over complicating it ?

 

I don't care if ya fish every day or once a week ya gotta understand your body of water, the food source, & how those two relate to each other morning, noon, & night with each passing season.

 

Y'all can spend all the time on the water you can but until you understand those 2 you're just fishing!

 

Spending time on the water at the wrong places doing the wrong things only teaches you how to cast.

I respect your opinion but I think you're off base when it comes to putting time in on the water.

[Mobasser]

Even though many will disagree, I think color, size of bait, and type of bait have a lot to do with catching truly large fish.I believe through much of the fishing season, big bass are not apt to chase down a fast lure. This is why many are caught on slower jigs and soft plastics, which can present an easier meal, and/ or a larger meal. They are opportunist.Of course, this doesn't make it any easier catching them consistently!And in bass fishing, there are always variables. Big fish have been caught on small lures too, but most folks who catch them with consistency use baits that are slow moving, have good action, and are an easy target.It could be a large buzzbait, swimbait, or plastic worm. All these lures fit this criteria

[Catt]

2 minutes ago, Spankey said:

I respect your opinion but I think you're off base when it comes to putting time in on the water.

 

Elaborate ?

[Spankey]

2 minutes ago, Catt said:

 

Elaborate ?

I agree with you 100% on baitfish/natural food source movement from season to season but this movement on a daily, weekly and monthly basis would be easier to find, identify and track if you could apply yourself on a more consistant basis on that single body of water.  I fish a lake with an abundance of baitfish types. Alot of baitfish movement. But this movement of baitfish (clearly visible movement) is not always because they are being chased down by bass or other larger fish. I respect your opinions and posts. I know you spend more time on the water than I, I can't help that. I'm out as much as I can and applying myself and try to use the best tactics as I can. 

[Mobasser]

When I started there were no you tube videos. I read as much as I could. I still love reading about bass fishing. But it was time spent on the water where I learned the most.I still try to learn something from each fishing trip. Time on the water= experience, the best teacher of all.

[Spankey]

47 minutes ago, Mobasser said:

I read an article years ago about the competition factor among bass. I think it's true. Smaller fish are a lot more likely to dart out and strike before another fish does. This could explain why many fisherman catch more numbers than size, even fishing over prime areas. I don't think big bass are"smarter". They are creatures of instinct too.

This is the exact scenario I believe I was in this past weekend. I fished back to back mornings in an area that had been holding some bigger bass. I felt they were there. I believe I was seeing them on the finder. 13-15 ft. of water. Had caught a few nice ones there prior. 

 

I had in my head that Drop Shotting, Split Shotting and Shakey Head was my answer to a few more nice fish in that area. I caught 22 bass over the weekend and couldn't stretch one to be more than 12". I had some big hits, very few, but hits bigger than the ones I've had hooked up. I have to believe they were the bigger fish there. A case where the smaller fish were more aggressive. Lack of not having hook up with those suspected bigger fish.......my fault.......I don't know. Not for the lack a trying. Don't feel I was asleep at the wheel.

 

Maybe I should have switched tactics. Maybe threw a different plastic. Should have jigged fished the second day? Not sure. Two days of dinks and runts. Not like I've never been there before.   

[DINK WHISPERER]

9 hours ago, Alan Reed said:

How is it harder?

How is it not?

[Alan Reed]

4 hours ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

How is it not?

I believe Catt has already covered that. I was asking for your constructive conversation if you believe different.

[mattkenzer]

IMHO, there is a huge difference between 3 hrs of productive fishing and 10 hrs of non-productive fishing.

 

Only increased knowledge of the lakes structure, cover, food source(s) and how everything relates to time of day and weather will you be able to decrease your non-productive fishing time.

 

Sure, time on the water will help decrease the non-productive time over many hours of casting where as Google Earth, Topo Maps, and the Food Source(s) Knowledge will speed up your productive fishing times.

 

Many professional anglers spend their practice days checking areas they have identified via options above without ever making a cast. You can be guaranteed they are looking for a food source and what food source it is!! @Catt

[Catt]

@slonezp interesting you should mention perch fishing leading to catching bass.

 

I have a friend that I fish with several times a year, he is excellent at finding perch. While we start out bass fishing we always end up on areas that hold perch. 

 

He asked me the other day why I hardly ever perch jerk with him to which I replied, ya ever noticed while you're perch jerking I continue to catch bass from these same areas?

[DINK WHISPERER]

4 hours ago, Alan Reed said:

I believe Catt has already covered that. I was asking for your constructive conversation if you believe different.

I know what Catt said, I asked you.

In early comments it was stated that time on the water teaches you nothing but how to cast. This is not true at all.

A fish is going to do what it wants regardless of what you want it to be doing or what a book tells you that it should be doing. How many times have fish been caught on lures that look absolutely nothing like what they would ever eat in nature?

Given, patterns do work a lot of times but not always and not on every body of water. If anybody really believes that all it takes is a topo map and some research in biology then I'll tell y'all what. We meet on a body of water that I've finished for years and you've never been on. Do all the research and study you want on said body of water. Then go out there and show me what you learned. After that I'll go out there and show you what time on the water in that specific place has taught me. All I am saying is there is no replacement for time on the water and figuring things out on your own. And by you and I I mean anybody in general not just us specifically. 

[Catt]

9 minutes ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

In early comments it was stated that time on the water teaches you nothing but how to cast. This is not true at all.

 

You're right it aint true at all cause it aint what I said!

 

This is what I said ?

 

Spending time on the water at the wrong places doing the wrong things only teaches you how to cast.

[Tennessee Boy]

22 minutes ago, Catt said:

Spending time on the water at the wrong places doing the wrong things only teaches you how to cast.

Here the deal for me when it comes to the importance of spending time on the water.

 

I'm all for hitting the water with as much information as you can.  Finding a good working pattern is about solving a puzzle.  This takes time.  Anything you can do to help solve the puzzle before you hit the water reduces the time it takes to solve the puzzle and that's obviously a good thing.

 

The mistake I think many people make is they think the reason they can't catch fish is because they lack the knowledge necessary to catch fish.  Now this certainly could be the case.  If you are fishing a bare hook in 60ft of water, then no amount of time on the water is going to help until you realize you are doing it all wrong. What I'm saying is that information is no substitute for time on the water.  I see questions on this forum like "What's better a worm or a lizard?"  You can ask this question and you will get lots of answers.  I'm sure you can find plenty of articles that will suggest when to fish a worm and when to fish a lizard.  I think this question is best answered by the fish.  When people ask questions like this they are trying to solve a problem with information that should be solved with time on the water.  The thing is you need basic fishing skills to get the answers from the fish.  The better you are at fishing a t-rig,  the faster you can determine if the fish prefer a worm or a lizard on a particular day.   So how do you get better at fishing a t-rig? It might help some to read an article on t-rig fishing but that's still no substitute for time on the water perfecting the skills that make you a good t-rig fisherman.

[DINK WHISPERER]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

 

You're right it aint true at all cause it aint what I said!

 

This is what I said ?

 

Spending time on the water at the wrong places doing the wrong things only teaches you how to cast.

And what shows us what those wrong places and things are? Time on the water maybe?

[Catt]

1 hour ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

And what shows us what those wrong places and things are? Time on the water maybe?

 

Or learning your body of water & the food source available ?

@Tennessee Boy & @DINK WHISPERER if y'all can not determine where productive structure is by map study & knowing the available food source no amount of time on the water is gonna help ya!

 

I promise you every Pro I've ever been around, fished with, & against studies the next tournament lake before they're boat ever gets wet!

[Tennessee Boy]

21 minutes ago, Catt said:

Or learning your body of water & the food source available ?

@Tennessee Boy & @DINK WHISPERER if y'all can not determine where productive structure is by map study & knowing the available food source no amount of time on the water is gonna help ya! 

NO ONE IS SAYING DON'T LOOK AT A MAP BEFORE YOU GO FISHING!!!!

 

I can say that if you can't tell when you've got a fish on the line, no amount of time studying a map is "gonna help ya!" but I'm sure no one is implying otherwise.

 

I keep my maps on my iPad and look at them constantly even if I'm not planning a fishing trip.  In the 90s I took a laptop out on the lake,  hooked it up to my sonar and GPS and map the structure myself.  I agree maps are a great tool and can save you valuable time on the water.   I also know a guy who has fished out of the same marina 2-3 times a week for 20 years who doesn't need a map because it's in his head. Over time he has gained a strong understanding of the food sources and seasonal patterns.   There are things that you need to know to get to the next level,  that is certain.  We can all improve our fishing by improving our knowledge of the sport.  There are also things that only time on the water can do for you and I think that aspect of fishing is often undervalued.  Basic fishing skills,  casting,  knowing what your lure is doing,  feeling the bite,  these are critical and often overlooked.  Is it that hard to understand what I'm trying to say?

[Todd2]

I see both sides of the coin here but I'm definitely in the "Time on the water camp". I've fished mainly three bodies of water this Summer. 1.) My normal stained lake. 2.) A new clear creek for Smallies 3.) A new clear pond I now have access too.

 

 

I don't know the primary food source. In the lake, I'd bet its Gizzard Shad and Crawdads. But I bet Bluegill and Salamanders aren't far behind. In the pond and creek, probably some of the same with the exception of the Shad.

 

I catch fish using the same techniques in all three. Soft plastics, Jigs, and Poppers have been my biggest producer this Summer. Especially the Ned. The Ned works well in all three spots. These are all lures that I have developed confidence in with time on the water.

 

My number one producer all time is a Texas rig worm. It doesn't look like a Shad or a Crawdad.

 

 

[DINK WHISPERER]

1 hour ago, Catt said:

 

Or learning your body of water & the food source available ?

@Tennessee Boy & @DINK WHISPERER if y'all can not determine where productive structure is by map study & knowing the available food source no amount of time on the water is gonna help ya!

 

I promise you every Pro I've ever been around, fished with, & against studies the next tournament lake before they're boat ever gets wet!

I'm no tournament Pro but I can tell you I don't sit around and look at maps or study food sources. Yet I'm still pretty darn successful most of the time. I get out and drive around scanning structure and determine lures/techniques based on water clarity and weather conditions. And asides from gin clear water (which I don't fish), I don't worry too much about forage. If a fish only hit baits that look like something they usually eat, we would never catch much. 

 

But hey, maybe that's why I'm not a pro ?. Or maybe it's cuz I work with the Army Corps of Engineers 6 days a week like a slave.... Who knows. 

 

Tight lines

[slonezp]

10 hours ago, Catt said:

@slonezp interesting you should mention perch fishing leading to catching bass.

 

I have a friend that I fish with several times a year, he is excellent at finding perch. While we start out bass fishing we always end up on areas that hold perch. 

 

He asked me the other day why I hardly ever perch jerk with him to which I replied, ya ever noticed while you're perch jerking I continue to catch bass from these same areas?

With this year being the exception, I fish for panfish as much as I do for bass. I've said here before that it is wise to learn the habits off all the fish in the lake.

 

Here in IL, the perch spawn right after ice out on our inland lakes (a little later in Lake Michigan). Water temps <50* The bluegills will target perch fry and the bass will target both the bluegills and the perch fry. Once I locate the bluegills, I will use either small perch colored crankbaits or perch colored crappie jigs underneath a float to catch bass, and I do quite well.

 

 

[rejesterd]

On 8/28/2018 at 5:30 PM, Catt said:

 

Absolutely false!

 

You have to consider all of Mr Jones research is done in a aquarium!

 

If bass remembered lures would it not stand to reason they would never hit a lure again but yet they do and that is proven every time one is caught on a lure!

 

More big bass are caught in daylight as darkness and that to is well documented!

As I said, there is a key difference between bass in the wild vs bass in an aquarium: the ones in the aquarium are fed real food on a regular basis. Bass in the wild don't know when their next meal is coming. So their instinct to bite generally overrides learned behavior. But the tests performed did prove that they hit the same lures less and less over time.. They remembered as far back as 3 months. What exactly about them being in an aquarium invalidates his findings? And try not to yell at me this time!

[RichF]

This thread has gotten way too "technical."  Science and technology are making anglers think way too hard about how to catch bass.  I say just get better at fishing.  The better you can present a bait, the more likely a fish is going to eat it. 

[Catt]

9 hours ago, rejesterd said:

What exactly about them being in an aquarium invalidates his findings?

 

9 hours ago, rejesterd said:

Bass in the wild don't know when their next meal is coming. So their instinct to bite generally overrides learned behavior