Taking things to the next level.

[GReb]

54 minutes ago, geo g said:

Look at MLF.  These guys are the best in the business but they are catching 1 or 2 pound bass and thrilled to get them.  Why are they not out there targeting double digit bass.  Because they know there are a lot more smaller bass then big bass in any body of water.  You go to target just big bass and your often in for a long day of fishing, with little results.  Like the guide said in an earlier post, I let them catch some schoolies and then go after a big one, because that could be the end of catching that day.  If you knew the secret to catching big bass consistently, you could easily be a millionaire.  To me its all about location, more then anything else.  Fish aquarium lakes, with catch and release only, and feed stocked trout several times a year, and your odds go way up, but you still have to be a skilled angler, or just plain lucky.  Learn the body of water you fish and how anglers caught big fish on those waters.  Then go target the locations where big fish hang out.  It's as simple as that!  But never simple!

MLF is a great training guide because it shows the pros progressions from a scouting standpoint. They each have a mental checklist they go through in order to determine what starting place and lure gives them the best odds. 

 

You can also get this type of insight from their instagrams and YouTube channels. Anything that can build your pool of knowledge is a positive. 

[rejesterd]

Bigger bass are older bass, and older bass are smarter predators.  Over time, they become more and more nocturnal.  They mostly feed at night and chill out during the day.  So during the day, you have to trigger them more into biting.  There are exceptions, but that's the main idea.  You have to trigger them with fast flashy/wobbly/erratic moving baits, or with very slow-moving baits of a particular color that works for that waterway.  So part of it is trial and error in experimenting with color and somewhat with presentation.  

 

At the same time, recognize that bigger fish will still instinctively stage up on places that will allow food to come to them more easily during the day.  They're not in full hunting mode, but they'll still eat things if it's not too much effort for them.  That means they're mostly out where the current is, or under docks/pads hiding in the shadows. 

[Catt]

3 hours ago, Alan Reed said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Alan Reed said:

 

This is getting back to the point main topic which is targeting the bigger fish in a way that works in a tournament. That is obviously different than some one that is going out seeking the fish of a lifetime every time they go out knowing many times that means they are not going to get a single bite.

 

What is the strategy difference you employ to target the bigger tournament fish? 

 

Correct!

 

When targeting kicker fish in a tournament we are not talking about targeting double digit bass. 

 

@Alan Reed what size limits does your body of water support?

 

A legal "keeper" bass on Toledo Bend for either consumption or a tournament is 14" or about a 2# bass.

 

To place in the money in most tournaments takes a 20# sack, if I put 5 "keeper" fish in the livewell I'm looking at a 10# sack & I'm gonna have a heck of a job culling up because I've wasted time on "keepers".

 

"What is the strategy difference you employ to target the bigger tournament fish?"

 

For us it's a simple matter of moving to offshore structure!

 

Which by the way is a growing trend in Pro tournaments!

 

For years the strategy in Pro tournaments was fishing shallow water because it was less time consuming & easier to patterned.

 

With today electronics fishing deep water structure is just as easy to pattern.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Catt
Operator Error

[RichF]

If you wanna catch bigger than average bass, get off the bank and don't throw the following things:

 

1. Senko

2. Ned Rig

3. wacky Rig

4. Neko Rig

 

[Team9nine]

If you haven't read the book, this is my favorite commentary on the subject, written by John Gierach. Overlook the "fly fishing" references (think bass), and I think he pretty much converted my thought to match on the subject.

 

[Arlo Smithereen]

Quote

I've been reading In Pursuit of Giant Bass by Bill Murphy, and it's really got me re-thinking my strategy on the water. There's so much information that I can't imagine how to condense it down to a few sentences. Patience, stealth, awareness, time on the water, and attention to detail are a few things to come to mind.

 

[geo g]

2 minutes ago, Arlo Smithereen said:

 

You have it figured out!

[soflabasser]

6 hours ago, rejesterd said:

Bigger bass are older bass, and older bass are smarter predators.  Over time, they become more and more nocturnal.  They mostly feed at night and chill out during the day.  So during the day, you have to trigger them more into biting.  There are exceptions, but that's the main idea.  You have to trigger them with fast flashy/wobbly/erratic moving baits, or with very slow-moving baits of a particular color that works for that waterway.  So part of it is trial and error in experimenting with color and somewhat with presentation.  

 

At the same time, recognize that bigger fish will still instinctively stage up on places that will allow food to come to them more easily during the day.  They're not in full hunting mode, but they'll still eat things if it's not too much effort for them.  That means they're mostly out where the current is, or under docks/pads hiding in the shadows. 

Catching big bass on a consistent basis is not easy and you usually have to fish for big bass differently than you would fish sub 6 pounders.Nighttime is a great time to target big bass, especially during the summer. 

On 8/26/2018 at 8:21 PM, soflabasser said:

There are a lot of things you can do to up your game in bass fishing if you want to.

 

1. Find someone who is a much better bass fisherman than yourself in the waters you fish and become friends with him/her. Fish with them as much as possible and do your best to learn from them. This will speed up your learning curve much faster than reading anything online or in a book.

2. Do your best to learn from every fishing trip.

3. Do your best to learn how to read the water.

4. Do your best to learn how to fish the different seasons and strive to be good bass fishermen throughout the year, not just a season or two.

5. Do your best to master a couple lures instead of fishing dozens of types of lures but you really don't fish them enough to the point you master them.

6. Understand that no matter how much you know there will always be someone who knows a certain technique better than you and knows how to fish a certain body of water better than you. Knowing this means it would be best to keep a open mind and do your best to learn from everybody who is willing to teach you what they know.

 

I have done everything I mentioned in this list,continue to do so and have seem myself grow as a bass fisherman, even after + 23 years of bass fishing. There are techniques I learned to fish better this year and hope to learn more techniques as time passes.I would highly recommend #1 on the list to anyone who wants to increase their PB, whether it be the biggest bass, top 5 bass in 1 month, top 5 bass in 1 day of fishing,most bass caught in 1 day, most species of bass caught, etc. Like the saying goes its hard to fly like a Eagle when you are surrounded by turkeys so find yourself the best bass fishing buddy you can find and learn from them while actually fishing!

[soflabasser]

5 hours ago, RichF said:

If you wanna catch bigger than average bass, get off the bank and don't throw the following things:

 

1. Senko

2. Ned Rig

3. wacky Rig

4. Neko Rig

 

 One of my fishing buddies has caught several +8 pound bass on senkos/other similar lures and swears by them. I do not like fishing with these types of lures but do acknowledge they work for big bass on some occasions. I rather fish with topwaters, swimbaits, and other lures.

[Glaucus]

I've been throwing all sorts of lures for years. More recently I've primarily been throwing Senkos in various techniques in ponds for LMB and the Ned Rig in rivers for SMB. I'm catching a ton of small fish. I'm also catching a lot of good fish. I'm also catching a good amount of big fish. Point is, I'm catching a lot of fish. I like to catch bass. I'm tired of the days of power fishing for a few good bites or going out with the mindset of big fish only and sometimes being skunked. Big fish bite the finesse baits too. I'd rather catch 20 small fish, 5 good fish, and 1 giant fish, than 5 good fish and a couple big fish. I don't do this for money, for skill, or for digits. Nothing wrong with a ton of fish on top of good fish.

This month, the Ned has produced the 3 biggest SMB out of a small local river that my fishing circle has ever seen come out of it. They're not "absolute giants", but they are huge for this water, and wouldn't have been caught without the Ned because I've lived by this river since I was a kid and nothing like these have come off topwaters, cranks, spinners, swimbaits, jigs, worms, etc. 

 

 

 

 

[RichF]

42 minutes ago, soflabasser said:

 One of my fishing buddies has caught several +8 pound bass on senkos/other similar lures and swears by them. I do not like fishing with these types of lures but do acknowledge they work for big bass on some occasions. I rather fish with topwaters, swimbaits, and other lures.

There's no doubt they can catch big fish. Problem is, they catch too many little ones. If I'm fishing a tournament, I need 5 bigguns. I don't wanna have to weed through a bunch of dinks (and panfish bites) for that one 4 pounder. I use baits that make me weed through 3's for a 6;)

[greentrout]

6 hours ago, RichF said:

If you wanna catch bigger than average bass, get off the bank and don't throw the following things:

 

1. Senko

2. Ned Rig

3. wacky Rig

4. Neko Rig

 

Some of the biggest bass ever caught were off the lowly bank...

 

[Mobasser]

6 hours ago, Catt said:

 

 

Correct!

 

When targeting kicker fish in a tournament we are not talking about targeting double digit bass. 

 

@Alan Reed what size limits does your body of water support?

 

A legal "keeper" bass on Toledo Bend for either consumption or a tournament is 14" or about a 2# bass.

 

To place in the money in most tournaments takes a 20# sack, if I put 5 "keeper" fish in the livewell I'm looking at a 10# sack & I'm gonna have a heck of a job culling up because I've wasted time on "keepers".

 

"What is the strategy difference you employ to target the bigger tournament fish?"

 

For us it's a simple matter of moving to offshore structure!

 

Which by the way is a growing trend in Pro tournaments!

 

For years the strategy in Pro tournaments was fishing shallow water because it was less time consuming & easier to patterned.

 

With today electronics fishing deep water structure is just as easy to pattern.

Agree with Catt. If you look back on tournament fishing history, shallow water was where many early pros fished all the time.You can spend so much time in the shallows, you miss the chance for bigger fish from deeper water. We all love a faster shallow bite, but structure fishing opens so many more possibilities.

[Alan Reed]

6 hours ago, Catt said:

 

 

Correct!

 

When targeting kicker fish in a tournament we are not talking about targeting double digit bass. 

 

@Alan Reed what size limits does your body of water support?

 

A legal "keeper" bass on Toledo Bend for either consumption or a tournament is 14" or about a 2# bass.

 

To place in the money in most tournaments takes a 20# sack, if I put 5 "keeper" fish in the livewell I'm looking at a 10# sack & I'm gonna have a heck of a job culling up because I've wasted time on "keepers".

 

"What is the strategy difference you employ to target the bigger tournament fish?"

 

For us it's a simple matter of moving to offshore structure!

 

Which by the way is a growing trend in Pro tournaments!

 

For years the strategy in Pro tournaments was fishing shallow water because it was less time consuming & easier to patterned.

 

With today electronics fishing deep water structure is just as easy to pattern.

 

@Catt I fish many different bodies of water. I have done national tournaments on Kentucky lake in the early spring, as they were moving up to spawn and once they were out on the ledges. 

 

My local tournaments in Indiana, one day tournaments winning weights are on average in the upper teens. Most public water in Indiana has a 14” minimum with some of the state owned property as high as 18” keepers. A 20” around 5 pound bass on most lakes here are considered a kicker fish.

52 minutes ago, Glaucus said:

I've been throwing all sorts of lures for years. More recently I've primarily been throwing Senkos in various techniques in ponds for LMB and the Ned Rig in rivers for SMB. I'm catching a ton of small fish. I'm also catching a lot of good fish. I'm also catching a good amount of big fish. Point is, I'm catching a lot of fish. I like to catch bass. I'm tired of the days of power fishing for a few good bites or going out with the mindset of big fish only and sometimes being skunked. Big fish bite the finesse baits too. I'd rather catch 20 small fish, 5 good fish, and 1 giant fish, than 5 good fish and a couple big fish. I don't do this for money, for skill, or for digits. Nothing wrong with a ton of fish on top of good fish.

This month, the Ned has produced the 3 biggest SMB out of a small local river that my fishing circle has ever seen come out of it. They're not "absolute giants", but they are huge for this water, and wouldn't have been caught without the Ned because I've lived by this river since I was a kid and nothing like these have come off topwaters, cranks, spinners, swimbaits, jigs, worms, etc. 

 

 

 

 

The rivers are an entirely different subject. I need to get better at those as well but I have seen the smaller lures in the rivers perform very well.

[Alan Reed]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

If you haven't read the book, this is my favorite commentary on the subject, written by John Gierach. Overlook the "fly fishing" references (think bass), and I think he pretty much converted my thought to match on the subject.

 

Thanks for sharing, and I agree whole heartedly in developing your own style and technique that works for you. Sometimes your style, the way you twitch a bait and the length you wait to move your lure is the difference. 

But consider this, in every sport when we look at all the greats they all had something in common, the best quarterbacks could all read the defense prior to the snap and knew how to make an adjustment to the play to counteract that. Maybe that was a different play or to quicken the release. MJ and Lebron knew how to use their body and ball movements to create separation between them and their defender.

How does that translate to fishing? First I think they all have the great ability to locate big fish. Second once they locate the big fish they go to their bag of tricks and find a way to make them bite. Yes it isn’t the same way for each angler  because they each have a technique or two they have “mastered” as their own. 

 

Would you agree with this?

[soflabasser]

9 hours ago, RichF said:

There's no doubt they can catch big fish. Problem is, they catch too many little ones. If I'm fishing a tournament, I need 5 bigguns. I don't wanna have to weed through a bunch of dinks (and panfish bites) for that one 4 pounder. I use baits that make me weed through 3's for a 6;)

I never liked them much since they tend to catch lots of small/medium bass which is ok but I prefer fishing other lures that I do better with for big bass. I do feel that they have their place and time that they do best and will fish them if I have to.I do not fish tournaments but agree that +6 pounders are better than anything under 6.  That's why I do not fish with common little lures when I am seriously targeting big bass. A blind squirrel does find a nut every once in a while just like you hear about reports of people catching big bass on little crappie jigs, inline spinners, etc.

[TOXIC]

The problem with using MLF as a model is that ALL score-able bass count the same.  There's no benefit for big fish beyond the distinct possibility of not catching anything while targeting them.  Too risky.  Easier to put a bunch of smaller fish in the boat.  Let's be clear, there's a distinct difference between "Kicker Fish" and a "Trophy Fish" there's always going to be a better class of fish mixed in with the schoolers that you will eventually catch weeding through the smaller fish.  A trophy fish is a whole different animal.  

[Catt]

Learn: gain or acquire knowledge of or skill in (something) by study, experience, or being taught.

 

Learn your body of water; even if you bank fish.

 

Learn the food source; most under discussed subject on this site.

 

Have confidence in yourself; know your strengths & more importantly admit your weaknesses!

 

K.I.S.S. ?

 

Trophy or tournament fisherman use simple techniques to perfection to consistently catch bass.

 

Anglers often respond to failure and frustration by over-complicating theory and technique. As much as it helps our egos to regard a difficult task as complex, this type of thinking is often the biggest obstacle between you and your fishing success.

[Sam]

Alan, you have asked the $64,000 Question.

 

Easy question - difficult answer.

 

What the guys have penned, especially .Ghoti. tells you that there is really no answer to your query.

 

What you can do is use larger baits and be aware that you will have fewer strikes.

 

A friend fishes only 1/2 ounce jigs. He says all he needs is five bites a tournament and he used to win many tournaments throwing only 1/2 ounce jigs.

 

As for where the big ones hang out, on the Chickahominy River outside of Williamsburg, Virginia, we all run up to the dam area for the big ladies. For some reason, the Florida strain bass hang out up river by the dam. We believe we have a better chance of catching one of the big ones by the dam than in any other part of the river.

 

On the other hand, while fishing a pond, I caught a big one, over five pounds, on a small one-inch white grub while trying to catch bream. She hit it at my feet as I was just getting ready to lift the small bait to cast again. Go figure?

 

So after reading the posts your challenge is to find the large bait (swimbaits, big jigs with big pigs, 12-inch worms, large deep diving crankbaits) that the bass want that day and hour and cast, cast, and cast some more. As penned above, just be prepared to cast a lot before you get a strike from one of the big ones.

 

Keep trying. Good luck.

 

 

[Mobasser]

7 hours ago, Alan Reed said:

Thanks for sharing, and I agree whole heartedly in developing your own style and technique that works for you. Sometimes your style, the way you twitch a bait and the length you wait to move your lure is the difference. 

But consider this, in every sport when we look at all the greats they all had something in common, the best quarterbacks could all read the defense prior to the snap and knew how to make an adjustment to the play to counteract that. Maybe that was a different play or to quicken the release. MJ and Lebron knew how to use their body and ball movements to create separation between them and their defender.

How does that translate to fishing? First I think they all have the great ability to locate big fish. Second once they locate the big fish they go to their bag of tricks and find a way to make them bite. Yes it isn’t the same way for each angler  because they each have a technique or two they have “mastered” as their own. 

 

Would you agree with this?

Yes. One common thing that the best fisherman share is the ability to locate fish. Even if they are only good with one or two teqniques, once they find fish, they can usually catch some. Experience and confidence play a huge part here.

18 minutes ago, Catt said:

Learn: gain or acquire knowledge of or skill in (something) by study, experience, or being taught.

 

Learn your body of water; even if you bank fish.

 

Learn the food source; most under discussed subject on this site.

 

Have confidence in yourself; know your strengths & more importantly admit your weaknesses!

 

K.I.S.S. ?

 

Trophy or tournament fisherman use simple techniques to perfection to consistently catch bass.

 

Anglers often respond to failure and frustration by over-complicating theory and technique. As much as it helps our egos to regard a difficult task as complex, this type of thinking is often the biggest obstacle between you and your fishing success.

100% true! I see a lot of new fisherman worried about learning all the teqniques. Confused about what rod/reel and baits to buy etc.Instead, learn what the food source is! Fish lures that imitate your food source. This alone can put you ahead of the pack.Is it shad? Crawfish? Panfish? One of The most important things in fishing, but also one of the most overlooked.

[mattkenzer]

37 minutes ago, Catt said:

Learn: gain or acquire knowledge of or skill in (something) by study, experience, or being taught.

 

Learn your body of water; even if you bank fish.

 

Learn the food source; most under discussed subject on this site.

 

Have confidence in yourself; know your strengths & more importantly admit your weaknesses!

 

K.I.S.S. ?

 

Trophy or tournament fisherman use simple techniques to perfection to consistently catch bass.

 

Anglers often respond to failure and frustration by over-complicating theory and technique. As much as it helps our egos to regard a difficult task as complex, this type of thinking is often the biggest obstacle between you and your fishing success.

Print what Catt wrote and tape it to your steering wheel .....

Learn the body of water and the food source(s) ..... now you have an advantage over others (not the color of your senko)

 

Thanks Catt.

[Team9nine]

9 hours ago, Alan Reed said:

Thanks for sharing, and I agree whole heartedly in developing your own style and technique that works for you. Sometimes your style, the way you twitch a bait and the length you wait to move your lure is the difference. 

But consider this, in every sport when we look at all the greats they all had something in common, the best quarterbacks could all read the defense prior to the snap and knew how to make an adjustment to the play to counteract that. Maybe that was a different play or to quicken the release. MJ and Lebron knew how to use their body and ball movements to create separation between them and their defender.

How does that translate to fishing? First I think they all have the great ability to locate big fish. Second once they locate the big fish they go to their bag of tricks and find a way to make them bite. Yes it isn’t the same way for each angler  because they each have a technique or two they have “mastered” as their own. 

 

Would you agree with this?

Not completely, because no one seems to be able to define or explain exactly what makes them great, and subsequently, no one seems to be able to duplicate their success by following or mimicking this secret commonality. As I commented earlier, if it were that simple, we all would have read about it by now, and we'd all be doing "it," and we'd all be great, too. I tend to think it is more art than science... ? Beyond that, they mostly just drive around and look for fish on their sonar screens, then drop down and catch them - lol. Just need to find and fish enough schools until you figure out which ones hold the better quality fish these days.

[Tennessee Boy]

8 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 I tend to think it is more art than science... ? 

I agree with @Team9nine.  I don't know if I would necessarily use the word art.  I think people tend to give the Pros too much credit for what's going on in their head and not enough credit for what they do when the rod is in their hand.  Exactly what makes them great with a rod in their hand is what is hard to identify.  Take Jordan Lee for example.  At his young age he is a far better angler than I will ever be.  However,  I've heard him talk a few times and I don't get the sense that he has an extraordinary knowledge about bass fishing that I need to learn from.  He just goes out and catches fish and he does it better than just about everyone.

[Spankey]

18 hours ago, GReb said:

MLF is a great training guide because it shows the pros progressions from a scouting standpoint. They each have a mental checklist they go through in order to determine what starting place and lure gives them the best odds. 

 

You can also get this type of insight from their instagrams and YouTube channels. Anything that can build your pool of knowledge is a positive. 

It appears that the MLFers fish crankbaits more than they usually would, looking for reaction strikes. I think it has to do with catching numbers. I don't mean that in any negative way at all. KVD is all about the numbers. That's why he kicks butt in MLF. Pretty clear on an Elite event they set themselves up for bigger fish. 

 

I'm nobody. Just Joe Blow. But when I'm out I'm trying for the nicer fish. I don't like getting skunked anymore than the next guy. Especially when you know there are nice bass in the body of water. But I like to keep bass fishing fun also. 

[Spankey]

12 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I agree with @Team9nine.  I don't know if I would necessarily use the word art.  I think people tend to give the Pros too much credit for what's going on in their head and not enough credit for what they do when the rod is in their hand.  Exactly what makes them great with a rod in their hand is what is hard to identify.  Take Jordan Lee for example.  At his young age he is a far better angler than I will ever be.  However,  I've heard him talk a few times and I don't get the sense that he has an extraordinary knowledge about bass fishing that I need to learn from.  He just goes out and catches fish and he does it better than just about everyone.

I agree with you to some extent. Their skill and ability is unreal. They put in their time and efforts. 

 

But these are guys that spend the whole season every day fishing and practicing. No different than you being good at what you do on your job. Or somewhat the same. 

 

The majority of the guys on here are working stiffs that have an overwhelming passion for bass fishing. Who only have so many hours a week to spend on the water. Can most get out a bit more during that week? Probably but time will be minimal. 

 

I have to give credit to the weekend warriors who have progressed over time. Learned and applied what they learned over the years to be successful. Time is the big issue. Time on the water is what makes them good. I don't believe its because they are that much smarter. A lot more repetition and scenarios are in their heads.