Hardware for installing kayak carry handles

[cheezledzul]

I have a sit on top kayak that I need to install 2 handles on. One on each side. What kind of screws/hardware do you reccomend?

The handles and my anchor trolley comes with screws and nuts which will not work on my kayak. The walls are double sided and enclosed so theres no way to put a nut on. But the kayak is only used in lakes so i can use normal screws if needed. Not worried about it ripping out too much. The handles will have to endure the weight and knocking around while moving it. 

Does anyone know approximately how wide the wall is? 1/8th inch? 
The only thing I can think of are short shallow wall anchors. So I need to get the right gap size so it will sandwich the wall and not be too wide and loose. 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L1IT0M4/ref=pd_aw_lpo_60_bs_img_1/138-6181852-6027540?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=JXKHN0FYQJXE3CPSQZWM

[Dponchay]

Why not just use rivets or a well nut.

 

https://www.austinkayak.com/products/1096/Well-Nut.html

 

https://www.austinkayak.com/products/268/Pop-Rivet-Black-Anodized.html

[cheezledzul]

27 minutes ago, Dponchay said:

Why not just use rivets or a well nut.

 

https://www.austinkayak.com/products/1096/Well-Nut.html

 

https://www.austinkayak.com/products/268/Pop-Rivet-Black-Anodized.html

Will the well nut hold through the stress of using a handle?

I didnt know about these, that's why I posted, thanks!

Dont really want to buy a rivet gun if I dont have to. 

[Darren.]

I'd prefer neither.

 

For a strap I'd rather install large washer on each side, 

if possible, and a lock washer. But that's me.

 

The hollow wall anchor should work, but might be prone

to rust in the long run, or short if any saltwater is involved.

[cheezledzul]

2 hours ago, Darren. said:

I'd prefer neither.

 

For a strap I'd rather install large washer on each side, 

if possible, and a lock washer. But that's me.

 

The hollow wall anchor should work, but might be prone

to rust in the long run, or short if any saltwater is involved.

I'll never have this in salt water. Maybe brackish water of the hudson river but very slim chance. I plan on using silicone water sealant like I have for other screws and holes which should help with the rust. Washers on both sides are impossible. I cant access the other side, its enclosed. 

Does the link I left look good?

[J Francho]

The wellnuts will work for the trolley - that's what is holding my trolley on the Hobie Compass.  I wouldn't use them for handles.  What kind of boat is it?

[Darren.]

9 hours ago, cheezledzul said:

I'll never have this in salt water. Maybe brackish water of the hudson river but very slim chance. I plan on using silicone water sealant like I have for other screws and holes which should help with the rust. Washers on both sides are impossible. I cant access the other side, its enclosed. 

Does the link I left look good?

The screws in your link are zinc, and since brackish is a mix,

it'll speed the rusting quickly. I used some zinc coated hardware

on my yak and once I took it in the York River (brackish), within

a few days rust started to appear - even with fresh rinsing.

 

Edit- They rust even in fresh water, but more slowly...best to use

stainless if possible. Or aluminum rivets.

 

Anyhow, DIY is fun, sometimes frustrating. Using silicone is the

right move, but the anchors you're looking at could present a

problem unless coated really well... 

[cheezledzul]

41 minutes ago, J Francho said:

The wellnuts will work for the trolley - that's what is holding my trolley on the Hobie Compass.  I wouldn't use them for handles.  What kind of boat is it?

its a Sun Dolphin Journey 10 SS. I know, a lot of people say its a cheap piece of junk but its my first one and im more than happy with it. Dont have any problems for what I need. Except the handles, It dosnt tie to my cart well but is light enough to just carry to the dock.

Ill buy some well nuts for my trolley. Im just gonna diy that too with 2 pulleys, 550 cord and maybe a z lock. Im pretty sure Im just gonna secure the pulleys instead of letting them move. Dont want more noise.

[J Francho]

If it gets you off the water...

 

I put scraps silent traction on the pulleys themselves.  It looks like you already have side handles.  Is that true?  At any rate, seems like you could access that area through the center hatch.

 

47 minutes ago, Darren. said:

The screws in your link are zinc, and since brackish is a mix,

it'll speed the rusting quickly.

Also, I thought galvanization was to PREVENT rust?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization

[cheezledzul]

11 minutes ago, J Francho said:

If it gets you off the water...

 

I put scraps silent traction on the pulleys themselves.  It looks like you already have side handles.  Is that true?  At any rate, seems like you could access that area through the center hatch.

 

 

There arnt any handles. Theres bungies for the paddle on both sides, pads for your knees and side pockets with a rubber mesh. The center hatch is virtually another bigger cup holder. Cant get to the inner walls, the screwed in lid is just on the surface.

I had to waddle this thing off the dock sideways in the dark because I couldnt get the cart to stay in place. I was excited and went out after work at 7pm. Didnt really think it through, someone helped me bring it down but I was the last one on the water.

[J Francho]

It's the galvanized rivets then.  I had them on my Ocean Kayak Prowler Big Game handles and they held up fine.  That hull was 84 lbs.

[Darren.]

46 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Also, I thought galvanization was to PREVENT rust?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanization

It does, but it's not 100% stoppage of degradation. It's like you buy a diving watch - it's only water resistant (not proof) down to a certain depth/atm. Boats down here that see saltwater use will use stainless.

 

I tend to use galv. in all my yaks, but in some sets of screws or bolts I've bought from same bin, I've had at least a couple get totally corroded while others show zero signs of rusting. The acceleration for me started after I first hit the saltwater.

 

Anyhoo, I figure you know all this. Imperfections, and usage wearing the zinc coating down will allow a corrosive in. Just look at all those galvanized cars up north where salt is used heavily in the winter.

 

From same Wiki:

Quote

Marine and salty environments also lower the lifetime of galvanized iron because the high electrical conductivity of sea water increases the rate of corrosion, primarily through converting the solid zinc to soluble zinc chloride which simply washes away. Galvanized car frames exemplify this; they corrode much faster in cold environments due to road salt, though they will last longer than unprotected steel.

 

[J Francho]

I'd think a rivet would hold up fine.  My Commander is several years old now, and it's loaded with galvanized rivets.  I don't fish salt, but I also don't see any rust.

[cheezledzul]

I think we should rewind and remember Im not looking to buy a rivet gun if I dont absolutely have to lol. But it looks like I will 

[Choporoz]

What?  $10-20...and it may last a lifetime....not too early to start acquiring tools...especially tools you can put to good use immediately

[cheezledzul]

36 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

What?  $10-20...and it may last a lifetime....not too early to start acquiring tools...especially tools you can put to good use immediately

Yeaaah i know, i have a large assortment of tools but never had the need for a rivet gun.

In the last month I spent $200 on a rod and reel, $150 on tackle lures line etc, and $210 on a kayak on paddle. Plus anchor trolley & anchor, cart, decent rope/straps to tie it down, $100 on 2 pfds, and random caribiners, etc. Just adding up and im trying to be a cheapo by finding another way to do it. But like I said looks like Ill end up buying one so I can use it for my handles and trolley.

 

Thanks for the advice though, ill stop my complaining. I just preferred to complain about this then the fact I havnt caught anything yet ?

[J Francho]

I bet someone close has one you could borrow.  I used my dad's rivet gun to fix a gear track on my Commander.  Still have it, in fact.

[Choporoz]

LOL....buy a nice one...it'll last a lifetime...unless you loan it to @J Francho    :D

[cheezledzul]

31 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

LOL....buy a nice one...it'll last a lifetime...unless you loan it to @J Francho   

I think @J Francho should drive a few hours south and let me borrow it. Since he stole it from his dad anyways.

[cheezledzul]

Problem solved. Just put 2 and 2 together and realized I should ask the head of the install team for my company and he has one at his desk. Was so focused on kayaks...

[Fishing Rhino]

1 hour ago, Choporoz said:

LOL....buy a nice one...it'll last a lifetime...unless you loan it to @J Francho   

It will still last a lifetime.  Just someone else's life.

[J Francho]

It gets better....I was digging through my kayak related toolkit.  I have THREE rivet guns.  One I remember buying.

[Choporoz]

? funny....

It's a good thing that TW doesn't sell them, or I'd have a half dozen, myself

[Crankin4Bass]

Ocean Kayaks use riveted handles.  Seems to work fine.

 

Here's some handles:

https://yakgear.com/product/handle-kit-2-per-pack/

 

You can get a rivet gun for $5 from Harbor Freight. 

https://m.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hand-riveters/hand-riveter-set-38353.html

 

Marine goop:

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/amazing-goop®-37-oz-marine#repChildCatid=500052

 

Instructions:

 

 

Here's a great video on how to install just about anything on a kayak:

 

[cheezledzul]

11 hours ago, Crankin4Bass said:

Ocean Kayaks use riveted handles.  Seems to work fine.

 

Here's some handles:

https://yakgear.com/product/handle-kit-2-per-pack/

 

You can get a rivet gun for $5 from Harbor Freight. 

https://m.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hand-riveters/hand-riveter-set-38353.html

 

Marine goop:

https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/amazing-goop®-37-oz-marine#repChildCatid=500052

 

Instructions:

 

 

Here's a great video on how to install just about anything on a kayak:

 

Thanks for the links! I grabbed some cheap handles off amazon, h2o I think. Used the screws they supplied just to test it out and make sure the location is right. I'll change it to rivets once I know the placement. 

The head of union installation in my office had a rivet gun and a ton of aluminum rivets for me to borrow. 

The rivets mushroom. They dont split into 2 pieces like I've seen. This should be fine right? I figure it actually provides more surface area for the weight displacement.