Balance

[WRB]

Balance may be the most important factor in rod and reel performance, what does it mean to you?

With the trend going to longer rods across all types of bass rods and weight of both rods and reels getting lighter balance can suffer unless the rod maker is focused on retaining a balanced outfit.

Gary Dobyns considers a balanced rod with a reel is very important and is willing to discuss his thoughts in detail, one reason his business is successful.

Tom

[BrianinMD]

One thing about balance is the pivot point is at the reel, this means the weight of the reel does not play much of a role in final balance it only adds weight to the pivot.

[Mobasser]

Tom, I think balance is thought out much more than years ago. It's true with modern tackle, if you pick your rod/ reels carefully you can achieve near perfect balance. Lighter, more sensitive,faster, and much more comfortable to fish with for longer periods.Much better casting performance too.

[The Bassman]

I prefer to use rods under 6'6" because I don't like to feel tip weight. The perfect rod (spinning and casting) practically "floats" at the tip when I'm holding the rod as I would while retrieving. Makes it much easier on my wrist during the day.

[WRB]

A properly balanced rod and reel combo should float in your hand regardless of the length.

Tom

[Catt]

The pivot point is your reel but my question is where's your hand?

 

One friend of mine had an accident years ago the cut the flesh between his forefinger & thumb. Because of that he has to hold his rod by the grip behind the reel to have proper strength.

 

My grandson because of his small stature has to hold his rod in front of the reel with the butt of the rod under his arm.

 

I kinda palm my reel but different than most.

 

Rod-n-reels & how we hold em is 100% personal preference ?

 

 

[Joshua van Wyk]

13 minutes ago, Catt said:

The pivot point is your reel but my question is where's your hand?

 

One friend of mine had an accident years ago the cut the flesh between his forefinger & thumb. Because of that he has to hold his rod by the grip behind the reel to have proper strength.

 

My grandson because of his small stature has to hold his rod in front of the reel with the butt of the rod under his arm.

 

I kinda palm my reel but different than most.

 

Rod-n-reels & how we hold em is 100% personal preference ?

 

 

Lol that's how my dad palms his reels

[islandbass]

4 hours ago, WRB said:

Balance may be the most important factor in rod and reel performance, what does it mean to you?

With the trend going to longer rods across all types of bass rods and weight of both rods and reels getting lighter balance can suffer unless the rod maker is focused on retaining a balanced outfit.

Gary Dobyns considers a balanced rod with a reel is very important and is willing to discuss his thoughts in detail, one reason his business is successful.

Tom

Is this balanced outfit thing subjective or is there a metric that can be applied to eliminate subjectivity. 

 

What if something feels “balanced” to angler A and not to angler B?

 

Also, where is this holy grail of a balance point located? 

 

I am glad you brought this up because I would like to know. 

 

 I find the trend for longer rods to be strange as it starts to creep toward typical salmon/steelhead rod lengths. Pretty soon they’ll probably need to make them 2-piece because they won’t fit in boat rod lockers or typical cars, and we all know no “self-respectin’” bass angler would be caught dead using a 2-piece rod, lol. 

 

[A-Jay]

 

 

2 hours ago, Catt said:

The pivot point is your reel but my question is where's your hand?

I kinda palm my reel but different than most.

Rod-n-reels & how we hold em is 100% personal preference ?

 

 

Looks like I'm one finger off @Catt

But this is a 300 size reel.

Close though . . .

A-Jay

[WRB]

Spinning rods are typically held by the majority of anglers with the reel foot post between your fingers and have 3 options; between the index and middle, middle and ring, ring and pinky, moving the balance posing about 3/4" with each holding method. 

Baitcasting reels are usually held by the majority of anglers by the side of the reel about middle of the reel, some hold it behind the side plate like A-Jay illustrate, some hold them a little further back like Catt illustrates and I hold them further forward in front of the side plate. More variances moving the balance point about an 1" with each variable depending on the reel weight how much this impacts balance.

If you have the same reel with the same holding grip and it feels balanced to you with 7' rod having the reel seat centered at 11" from the rod butt on a 7' rod for example, then put the same reel with the same length 11" center point to the butt on a 7'6" rod the tip will be heavier and feel unbalanced to you.

Rod makers tend to counterbalance the longer rods with longer butt lengths, the overall Rod is longer, the length from reel seat to the rod tip is reduced by the longer butt end.

How the longer Rod can be balanced with your grip and reel weight the same is anyone's guess. You can call the Rod maker and ask what reel weight is your Rod balanced with? The answers would be interesting. My rods are custom made for me and balanced perfectly for my style of fishing and reels used. 

Tom

 

[The Bassman]

4 hours ago, Catt said:

The pivot point is your reel but my question is where's your hand?

 

One friend of mine had an accident years ago the cut the flesh between his forefinger & thumb. Because of that he has to hold his rod by the grip behind the reel to have proper strength.

 

My grandson because of his small stature has to hold his rod in front of the reel with the butt of the rod under his arm.

 

I kinda palm my reel but different than most.

 

Rod-n-reels & how we hold em is 100% personal preference ?

 

 

 

If that reel could only talk.....

[Scott F]

7 hours ago, WRB said:

Balance may be the most important factor in rod and reel performance, what does it mean to you?

Balance means almost nothing to me. I've never considered it when purchasing a rod or looked for it when combining the rod and reel.

When longer rods came into fashion, most companies lengthened the rods handle probably to keep the rod balanced. When I was having most of my rods custom built, I always asked the rod builder to keep the handle as short on my long rods as they were on the shorter rods. The long handles always got in my way. I'm sure that effected the balance negatively, but those rods were, and still are some of my favorites. 

[LionHeart]

Don't make too much nevermind to me.  In fact, if I pick up a rod that isn't noticeably tip heavy (and I can only think of a few that are), balance doesn't enter my mind.

 

Weight? Sure.

[MichaelCopeland]

7 hours ago, Catt said:

The pivot point is your reel but my question is where's your hand?

 

One friend of mine had an accident years ago the cut the flesh between his forefinger & thumb. Because of that he has to hold his rod by the grip behind the reel to have proper strength.

 

My grandson because of his small stature has to hold his rod in front of the reel with the butt of the rod under his arm.

 

I kinda palm my reel but different than most.

 

Rod-n-reels & how we hold em is 100% personal preference ?

 

 

I'm guessing I palm my reel like most do. No, I'm not missing a finger...lol! ?

[Stephen B]

3 hours ago, Scott F said:

Balance means almost nothing to me. I've never considered it when purchasing a rod or looked for it when combining the rod and reel.

When longer rods came into fashion, most companies lengthened the rods handle probably to keep the rod balanced. When I was having most of my rods custom built, I always asked the rod builder to keep the handle as short on my long rods as they were on the shorter rods. The long handles always got in my way. I'm sure that effected the balance negatively, but those rods were, and still are some of my favorites. 

Very interesting. I typically like to have a reel in mind when I am looking for a rod as it can impact the rod choice. Balance is largely impacted by the way the fisherman holds the rod/reel as we all have our own unique ways of doing things. While I do prefer a shorter handle for certain techniques (jerkbaits, topwater, etc), but I like a longer handle length on my bottom contact casting rods. It just goes to show that fishing is 99% individual preference and no way is the "right" way.

[Catt]

One angler may like a balanced rod

 

Another angler may like a tip heavy rod

 

Another angler may add weights to the butt to change balance 

 

When these type discussion come up we automatically assume bottom contact techniques.

 

I have friends who are crankbait fisherman, their rods are just as balanced & sensitive as my worm rod!

 

If you're a newbie that's not sure where to start... start balanced!

Edited August 6, 2018 by Catt
Operator Error

[Tennessee Boy]

I've always thought that the whole balance rod thing was just more marketing hype by the manufactures.   The reason is it just doesn't make makes since when I apply what little I learned in my college physics classes.  If someone can tell me what I'm missing I would love to learn something new today. 

 

What we are talking about as I understand it, is torque at the pivot point.  A balance rod would have no torque if held at the pivot point.  Of course as others have pointed out,  not everyone holds the rod the same but since most people hold it within a inch or two from the pivot point that shouldn't make that much difference.  The problem as I see it is that leverage is such a big factor in torque.  If you add a half ounce lure on a perfectly balanced rod where the tip is six feet from the pivot point then the  torque caused by the lure will be 0.1875 another site-ft if my math is correct.  To counter act this new torque you would need to add three ounces to the butt of the rod assuming the butt is 1 foot from the pivot point.  All of these numbers change as you change the angle of the rod and vary greatly as you fish.  Most modern rods weight around 4 ounces so it's hard for me to see how the distribution of this weight in the rod would make any noticeable difference in torque compared to the real world forces that cause torque on the rod while fishing.

 

 

[Scott F]

6 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I've always thought that the whole balance rod thing was just more marketing hype by the manufactures.   The reason is it just doesn't make makes since when I apply what little I learned in my college physics classes.  If someone can tell me what I'm missing I would love to learn something new today. 

 

What we are talking about as I understand it, is torque at the pivot point.  A balance rod would have no torque if held at the pivot point.  Of course as others have pointed out,  not everyone holds the rod the same but since most people hold it within a inch or two from the pivot point that shouldn't make that much difference.  The problem as I see it is that leverage is such a big factor in torque.  If you add a half ounce lure on a perfectly balanced rod where the tip is six feet from the pivot point then the  torque caused by the lure will be 0.1875 another site-ft if my math is correct.  To counter act this new torque you would need to add three ounces to the butt of the rod assuming the butt is 1 foot from the pivot point.  All of these numbers change as you change the angle of the rod and vary greatly as you fish.  Most modern rods weight around 4 ounces so it's hard for me to see how the distribution of this weight in the rod would make any noticeable difference in torque compared to the real world forces that cause torque on the rod while fishing.

 

 

Not that I understand one word of what you wrote, but I think you explained why rod balance doesn’t mean anything to me. ?

[Paul Roberts]

I think that overall rod weight, and rigidity of material (MOE), are the most important factors in term of sensitivity. Balance comes in a distant third, unless it's somehow extreme, which can affect sensitivity and comfort -how many hours you can fish that thing before your forearm, wrist, and fingers wear out. Achieving proper balance can also mask, somewhat, the true sensitivity of a lower quality heavier rod.

 

I balance my rods around the fulcrum -my rod hand- usually at my middle finger. I like them a tad tip heavy too. I've found that most outfits balance around that point anyway.

 

As to long rods, what's important is the effective end of the rod -that sticking out past your fulcrum. This is effectively how much reach you have, how much line you can keep off the water, and how much tip travel you get. Adding length to the butt section of the handle to achieve length doesn't add to the effective working part of the rod. I consider the working area of the rod when buying or making a rod, and may lop off some of the butt section of factory rods.

 

Also, the longer the rod the more I appreciate higher quality, lighter, higher MOE, compared with shorter blanks in which rigidity is easier to achieve. Being able to have power out in the tip and still have that tip be light in weight is more important the longer the rod. Long rods with lower quality blanks tend to feel tip heavy, which may be why rod manufacturers add butt length, or weight in the handle. Nothing worse than a tip heavy rubbery club of a rod that takes some serious weight at the other end to counter. Add a heavy reel and maybe some weight and it may be made to feel "fishable". But, that added weight affects the ability of a fish to move that rod in your hand, which is what sensitivity is. I don't believe in "magic vibes" emanating up the blank.

[DINK WHISPERER]

Gary may consider it important but he doesn't incorporated balance into all of his rods. I've sold many a longer Dobyns rod because it was too tip heavy. When a rod and reel combo is well balanced you can just feel it. It's hard to explain for me but it doesn't feel tip heavy or butt heavy. Just feels right.