Extra fast vs fast

[Junger]

I wish there was a site that would show how rods bend under specific weight loads in increments of like 2 lbs. I started to buy my own rods, and I still get quite confused sometimes on how a rod bends based on the power/action for my intended use.

 

For example, when I was looking for a popper rod, I was hyper focused on a 6'6-6'8 Medium Power, Moderate or Moderate Fast rod with a short handle that could throw 1/8 to 1/2oz lures. I couldn't find one other than people talking about the Allstar Zell Rowland TWS back in like 2012. I then came across the 6'8 Lew's Custom Speedstick Plus TWS and but it was rated as a ML/F and I was hesitant because I like a softer/slower tip for poppers...but it had a short handle that was hard to find. I eventually bought it and I love it. The action is fast, but it has a very soft tip that takes very little resistance to get to the backbone which is what I wanted for absorbing a shaking fish.

 

So now, I've come to learn that the bend of a rod also depends on a whole lot of factors including the rod power, which also vary by manufacturer...Daiwa Tatula's are underrated as many have said, and which is what I primarily own.

 

I also recently bought a Team Daiwa Zillion 7' M/XF that I am unsure of what to do with. Again, it bends very near the tip, but it does not take a lot of pressure to get to the backbone so I'm thinking that I will make it a light jig rod, or shakey head rod.

 

If things could get standardized, I'd save a whole lot of money experimenting and playing with new rods!

[J Francho]

8 minutes ago, Junger said:

If things could get standardized, I'd save a whole lot of money experimenting and playing with new rods!

The problem with standards is that they cramp innovation.

[Junger]

2 minutes ago, J Francho said:

The problem with standards is that they cramp innovation.

Some "innovation" is purely marketing hype though...standards could weed those out, and really give consumers true innovation.

[J Francho]

Meh, never gonna happen.  The industry is just too small.

[fishwizzard]

44 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Interesting.  Seems to contradict how even the manufacturer describes it:

 

 

Yea, they also seem way under-rated for weight, imho they start casting well at the very top of their range.   They are way faster than most other Light or MediumLight rods I have tried, but they lack the super soft tip common to the the other three XF rods (a Daiwa DXW Walleye, MB Black Themis, and a Avid M/XF casting) that I have.  

 

The MagLights are great rods though, I was taken back by the first one that I bought, it was far far too stiff and under-rated for my intended use, but I liked it enough in general to buy a second one as a DS rod for my kayak.  I think the MagL/XF Loomis' are the perfect power/taper for a small, t-rigged plastic with like ~1/16 to 1/8oz of weight.  I am starting to think that they might be the ideal Ned/MWF rod as well.  

32 minutes ago, Junger said:

I wish there was a site that would show how rods bend under specific weight loads in increments of like 2 lbs. I started to buy my own rods, and I still get quite confused sometimes on how a rod bends based on the power/action for my intended use.

 

TackleTrap has some rig that does that and they use it to compare the rod's they review, but they only really look at high-end stuff.  

[MickD]

On 7/31/2018 at 7:26 PM, WRB said:

Again without a standard to reference it's meaningless.

I realize a member is already looking for the illustration to define rod action bending 1/3rd upper is moderate, 1/4 upper is fast and 1/8 upper is extra fast, the problem with that depends on the line load and position held which isn't defined. Does the rod under it's own weight when holding tip and balancing the rod in the middle and push down or line being pulled being pulled down perpendicular to the rod held straight out, or shaking the rod without any weight???

X Fast tip is good for shaking the lure but also depends on rod length and power, etc, ect.

You can only compare each rod mfr, same everything except different action.

Enjoy,

Tom

 

Tom, I agree with your first statement.  If manufacturers published CCS data, we'd have the objective data, but they don't.  A few blank manufacturers do provide it.  The Action Angle CCS number tells the story on action, X-fast, fast, etc.  Angles below about 70 degrees are probably moderate, 70 to about 75, fast, and 75 to about 80, X-fast.

 

But I don't understand your statement about balancing the rod at all.

 

By their nature, an extra fast rod will, for the same POWER as a fast (or any slower action), have a softer tip.  This aspect of their action makes them, in my opinion, able to cover a larger lure weight range.  The softer tip allows them to load with light lures, and with heavier lures one gets into the "backbone" thus loading well with heavier lures.  Sometimes the softer tip feels a little floppy and imprecise, depending on factors I don't really understand, maybe the blank material of a particular rod.  I don't believe that X-fast actions create any problems when using braid except possibly in the heavier POWERS.  With what we normally call medium POWER, I don't see braid as a problem.  Yes, these last comments are an opinion, not objective.

[WRB]

By balancing I mean holding the rod blank paralell to the floor and putting light pressure to bend the tip the blank by balancing it in the middle of thr blank, the balance point being a fulcrum point using the butt end weight to flex the tip end. A Xfast tip bends within about 12" before the rest of upper 1/3rd of the blank bends. I used to do this along rolling the blank while bending it to determine where the spine was located when selecting rod blanks. 

Hope this helps to answer the balance question.

Tom

[PatrickKnight]

On 7/31/2018 at 6:38 PM, Team9nine said:

 

None 

Typically the most sensitive rod action, and they usually cast pretty decent, too. Beyond that, you can argue over their merits. Only ever bought a couple because of my skepticism and sold them all off over time as I used them less and less. I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I don't find them that practical.

Completely agree. My fastest action rods are fast but I greatly prefer moderate fast actions or the slower side of fast like Dobyns and Megabass.

[Drop shot-1]

I purchased my first extra fast rod the other day it’s a 68 medium extra fast Saint Croix Bass x. Normally I use a 7 foot medium Irod genesis three, Which is fast. I think the big kicker here is the length of the rod. When you move to a shorter rod the action of the rod is a lot stouter and I felt like I got a lot more power controlling the fish. Obviously there’s less give in the rod. In this case to Saint Croix blank is a little denser and in my opinion better quality than the irod, even though the eye rods cost $40 more, the Saint Croix‘s are better . But that extra fast tip is really nice. They’re both good. I think there’s more potential to lose fish on an extra fast set up because it’s a little less forgiving but as long as you have everything set up you should be fine. For this application I had drag on the spinning reel 10 pound test with 6lb leader. Extra fast actions are harder to make for rod companies. That’s why there less common. When you do find an extra fast action it’s usually a decent rod because it actually takes some work to make that tip like that. 

[BrianMDTX]

8 minutes ago, Drop shot-1 said:

I purchased my first extra fast rod the other day it’s a 68 medium extra fast Saint Croix Bass x.

I have a 6’ 10” St. Croix Bass-X MLEF rod paired with a Daiwa Revros LT2000. I love that for wacky rigs. When I reel in the slack that EF tip seems to quickly set the hook. Maybe not all that much faster then my rods with a fast action, but enough to be noticeable IMO. 

[Drop shot-1]

Definitely, There’s more back bone in that rod. Great rod for that technique for sure. Lets you drive that hook a little bit more on spinning gear too.  whereas with drop shot for me at least I’m throwing smaller hooks. Lets you drive that hook a little bit more. I think a fast action helps keep that hook pinned,  but extra fast works too as long as you have the drag set properly. G Loomis makes a couple drop shot rods in an extra fast action . This is something that took me a while to figure out and I had to loose a lot of fish,  but I have my drag perfect now where I can put a good amount of pressure sure before they pull any drag on 6-8lb fluoro leader. I must say I was impressed with my hundred dollar 6 eight medium extra fast bass x Rod.