Daiwa THIS, Shimano THAT, Abu THIS, etc etc -HELP-

[custer]

You don't buy a car without driving it.

 

Many areas have fishing clubs with many members who would love to let you toss their combos and teach you the terms (seems like every interest has its own language) and be very patient doing it.

 

Shows are also good places to research and learn. 

 

The internet is nice,  but I want to touch and use before I invest. 

[Angry John]

Read threw way to much of this.  The solution is oh to simple.  Tackle warehouse let's you try reels and then return them.  Select a few and try them out.  First one works out your done.  Dont like it try another.  Coat you a few dollars in shipping but saves you a pile.

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/demoprogram.html

[diehardbassfishing]

I'm totally thrilled by the passion I see coming out in this thread!

 

Two things ring out for me as I digest the out-pouring of assistance:

 

1) We have to be careful of - "Can't see the forest because of the trees."  It's too easy to put equipment on par - or more important - than the best part of fishing. The skill of tricking a bass into taking an artificial bait. This is the #1 pursuit; and much more challenging than rod/reel choice.

 

2) I'm guessing most of us experienced bass fishermen have started with very humble equipment, and worked our way up. That process is a growing experience, and is best left to evolve on its own. This part 2 is meant for the person receiving advice. Don't get too hung up on buying or doing things from 100% recommendation. Experiment and enjoy the process of bumping and going on your own gut feeling. You'll very quickly find what is best for you. Ok, in context of this thread - hopefully without wasting a ton of money. But bass fishing - by nature - is a sport based much on experimentation, and enjoying the growth process.

 

Karl

 

 

 

[fishnkamp]

l can tell you from experience I have fished with a bunch of gear over my 40 years of addiction. I was quite happy with my green Shimano Curados and BPS reels till a friend put a Daiwa Exceler (predecessor of a Fuego CT). I have since sold off 9 of my 12 baitcasting reels and have replaced them with 1 Exceler, and the rest with a few Tatula and Tatula Type Rs in different ratios, and some Tatula CTs. I have cast a friend's Shimano Curado K and would definitely not agree that it is hands down a better reel, at least not to me.  Both cast well, but we both agreed the Daiwa outcast the Shimano using a very easy smooth casting action.  I am not saying he could not cast as far, but it took more effort.

I am a big fan of the Daiwa Magforce Z brake system.  Many times I have had members from this and 2 other boards come over my house and do some rod and reel casting instruction.  Most that are not happy with their Daiwas when they get here are tickled when they leave. These reels need to be adjusted VERY different than any other reel I have ever cast.

Once these reels are setup properly the MagForce Z brake system can work like it is designed. Part of it sorta works like the governor on a lawn mower. The other part you dial in on the outside. I rarely have to readjust anything no matter what lure weights I change to.  As for their durability. I fish the Chesapeake Bay tributaries. These are tidal rivers with bass, big blue cats and big stripers, oh and I can't forget now big snakeheads. These reels hold up to all of that and my use in partly salty water.

Watch these two videos.  The first is a video showing how three different Daiwa brake systems work. The last one is a Magforce Z. The other video is from Brett Ehler and he is showing how to setup a Tatula SV TWS reel.  All the Daiwas with Magforce Z brakes adjust the same. It is a set and forget reel in my experience.  There are no side plates to remove and plastic pieces to push in or out like my old Curados or Chronarchs or dual brakes to mess with.

 

 

These reels are that simple to setup. Now I still use my educated thumb a bit more than he did in that demonstration but these reels just work. As for the question about the year model vs another. Forget about it. You decide if you can afford a Tatula CT or not. If you can, then go with a new Tatula CT.  For all around use choose a 6.3-1 reel. For a more dedicated combo to throw top water, chatterbaits, buzzbaits etc then a 7.3-1. I personally choose an 8-1 only for a dedicated combo to fish frogs and to flip, pitch or punch. If this will be your only rig than choose between a 6.3 and a 7.3-1 ratio. No mistakes here. If the $130 price range is out of your budget then a Fuego CT is the reel for you. No shame either you are not "giving up" much at all. The overall performance will be very similar.

 

One more thing, let me address the nonsense on the T wing not passing a knot. I do use a leader attached to my braid often.  I have no issues with my knots passing through the T wing system. First if I use a leader I do not fish with a leader longer than my rod.  I usually fish a 5 foot leader or about as long as my wing span from one hand to the other with my arms spread out. This way my leader is plenty long enough, but not so long to get into my reel.  Everyone of my reels has a mono backing and is attached to either fluorocarbon or braid using a uni to uni knot. If you are careful when tying that knot and be sure the wraps do not overlap each other then it will sail thru the T wing and micro guides. This has happened several times while hooked up with a big blue cats (my largest was 18 pounds) or one of the 30 inch stripers available here. I hope that helps explain these reels better without all the hype.

[burrows]

16 hours ago, TylerT123 said:

I was thinking Ritalin? 

Maybe Thorazine?

[Spankey]

Great threads, great post. A lot of good info on this one. I really think you are taking it way too deep. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill. Opinions are great but you need to throw it all out and go with your gut for your situation. 

 

I'll agree 100% to buy quality gear because it will last longer. But use still have to take care of it and service it once and a while. 

 

Personally I believe you will made out ok if you think it out for yourself. A lot of opinions will not do you much better than where you are at now. 

[TOXIC]

Patience Grasshoppa!!   Half the fun is getting there.  As a guide, my advice is to start off simple and given time you will absorb the subtle differences in gear and manufacturers.  Because so many here are serious hobbyists they have gone deep into the weeds on gear/baits/applications and many of us have been fishing a long, long time.  Pick a price point for rods, pick a price point for reels and do some simple comparisons.....Left or right handed, gear ratio, spool size.  Keeping in mind it may not be your last purchase.  You are not going to get the best right out of the box because the best for you may not be the best for me.  As for rods, at your price point get rods built for the application you want to use them for.  Many are labeled with the application....crankin stick, topwater, worm, punching rod, spinnerbait rod etc.  Once you use them you will understand better why they are labeled the way they are. As your needs get refined and your understanding gets better, it will all clear up.  It's like putting your toe in the water rather than just diving in.  You can sell your used gear and step up if need be.  Everyone has their own reasons for having their favorite gear but none of that applies to you.  Forge your own path and enjoy the journey.  

[PAbasser927]

4 hours ago, fishnkamp said:

Everyone of my reels has a mono backing and is attached to either fluorocarbon or braid using a uni to uni knot. If you are careful when tying that knot and be sure the wraps do not overlap each other then it will sail thru the T wing and micro guides.

I have occasionally gotten down to my mono backing on long casts when my spool is low.  I have not had a problem passing this connection knot (also uni to uni) either since my mono backing is generally 8-10lb test.  When it comes to leaders, I have never had a problem when casting, only when retrieving.  When casting, the T wing is open and there is more than enough space to pass any connection knot.  However, when retrieving and the T wing is closed, I have had issues passing a leader knot with 50lb braid to a 15-20lb fluoro leader.  I like to use a slim beauty knot because it points both the tag ends toward the main line which essentially eliminates the possibility of a hang up in the guides when casting.  Maybe this same reasoning is why it gets hung in the T wing on the way back in, but I have not had the knot hang in any other reel.  I had the same problem with the FG knot (supposedly the thinnests knot) prior the learning the slim beauty.  Worth considering for someone in the market for a reel that is interested in running long leaders. 

[Deleted account]

20 hours ago, TotalNoob said:

I haven't been on this forum for very long but I've been spending a lot of time reading through a lot of threads, old and new. I came here looking for answers and often find myself more lost after reading through the information I find. 

 

This post is essentially a cry for help. Too much of my time and too much money (for me) is being spent researching endless products until I'm blue in the face and on purchases I'm not confident in. This circle of confusion has to stop because I'm not even sure how much I enjoy actual fishing anymore. I want to be better, I am getting better, I want to take logical next steps but it is very difficult in the information overload world we live in now. 

 

I'm just flat STUNNED at how complex and overwhelming all the options are. I feel like I'm probably in the majority of folks who either recently started fishing semi-seriously or got back into fishing (I'm the latter) and have been 1) completely overwhelmed at the options on the market and 2) confused as to what all these different options are, what their best applications are, and what actual properties separate one product from a comparable product. Easy game if you've been in it for years, beyond overwhelming if you haven't. 

 

For example, here's a post from an April thread that I recently found while researching - hopefully this can help make clear where my "beginner" confusion is:

 

Thread Title: Daiwa Fuego ct vs shimano caenan

 

Response: "Between the caenan and fuego specifically I'd have to go fuego. It's feature limited compared to the tatula but those magforce Z brakes are hard to beat."

 

My thought process is a common one: I want to get a quality reel that doesn't break the bank that simultaneously has some lasting power/durability. There are apparently multiples of these "lower" tier options on the market (what a shock).

 

Based on what I've read on this forum, the Daiwa Fuego CT seems to be a good choice (I'm DEFINITELY not trying to start a debate here) but how can I understand WHY?

 

In that above response, it's noted that the Fuego CT is "feature limited". Okay, I like that, some honest thoughts on a product (vs all the crap Youtube vids with affiliate links etc). But what does "feature limited" mean exactly? What features are missing? So I research further...

 

Among the many threads I locate is this thread from Nov '17 (Titled: Fuego CT vs Tatula CT) with the following response: "Have both. No performance difference, but they do look a bit different As far as colors and finish goes. Either is a great choice. If you can swing the extra 30 bucks I say tatula."

 

If there is no performance difference and COLOR is the most notable difference between them, why would you recommend spending the extra $30 for the Tatula? Feels like there has to be a better reason this individual would recommend spending the extra $30. And by the way, what the heck does "CT" and "XT" and "Type R" stand for? Are we buying cars here?

 

The worst part for me is, that particular thread ends with the OP (who asked the initial question) posting literally: "Found a better deal and got a Gen 4 Revo Sx for $75."

 

Boom. Thread ends. And so now I start to look up this Gen 4 Revo Sx to try to understand IT'S characteristics last night (how is it different/better, is it more durable, etc) but fall asleep on the couch with laptop in lap and 13 tabs open in my browser when I wake up.  

 

Okay now, having said ALL that, I do feel like I'm gradually understanding some of the nuances better (more so on the rods than reels) BUT there absolutely has to be a better way to learn these things without breaking the bank in the process and being left with tackle I may or may not ever use. I, like many others probably, just want to make good, informed decisions and feel confident about them. 

 

Specifically, I ordered two rods a few days ago - One rod is an Okuma 6'8" MMF "Topwater/Jerkbait" (obvious purposes, mostly topwater though and possibly lighter jerks) and one is a 6'9" MH/F Abu Garcia Veritas that I hopeto use to throw heavier jerkbaits in the Spring and Fall. This Spring I learned from many a night fishing under moons that jerkbaits work very well in my fishery which contains all three Black Bass, Walleye, and some Wiper.

 

Anyway, I saved about $40 bucks total on these two rods using a 20% ebay coupon, so I spent $141 total for the two rods. I feel like that's a good deal, I'm very hopeful the rods work out for the purposes stated, I guess only time will tell. Now, I naturally need reels for these rods... so the research begins again. 

 

Those above threads I referenced (and many others I didn't) ARE generally helpful, please don't misunderstand. But is it easy to see how I still walk away from them scratching my head? I'm often times left more confused than when I started. Just when I thought I was starting to "figure out" rod selection, now I'm stuck in a rut trying to find reels that aren't crap but aren't expensive (not that I would know the differences anyway). 

 

Where is the clarity? The fishing market must be absolutely killing it in profits, driven by: 1) The endless supply of vague information out there leading to confusion and resulting in misguided purchases by amateur anglers and, to some degree, 2) The more I read it's beginning to seem like some folks are closer to being "collectors" than actual fisherman - or most likely a combination of the two. 

 

What rabbit hole have I gone down and more importantly WHERE CAN I FIND CLARITY TO GET OUT? You'd think that for ALL the d**n youtube channels, forums, and marketing outlets that some good soul out there would have created a simple to follow Chart or Buying Guide for which reels match best with which techniques and which types of lines etc etc etc - and most importantly: WHY. Amateurs need to be able to connect the dots in this insane market where there's 10 products for every application. 

 

How about some kind of unbiased site where a fresh-faced angler (regardless of age... young, old, or exactly 36 .. you know, whatever) inputs certain general and specific criteria related to their fishery (target species), whether they fish from boat or shore, their experience level, budget, etc etc - then it spits out various information based on known techniques for targeted species, rod/reel/line options, and, most importantly, EXPLANATIONS ABOUT WHY EXACTLY THESE POTENTIAL PURCHASES ARE GOOD AND WHAT DISTINGUISHES THEM FROM COMPARABLE PRODUCTS. 

 

I understand this thread might seem silly to some - and definitely long to everyone. I know I'll be getting responses ranging the spectrum like "just find a fishing style you like and stick with it", "don't go crazy on tackle, just enjoy fishing and forget about all the hype", "check out such-and-such thread for buying guides" (btw I feel like these lack too much info, especially for reels).

 

When you have been in the game for a long time and have an understanding of products and their specific functions, a door is naturally opened for higher levels of debate with your peers regarding specific products - as it should be. But what does one do who doesn't have all this experience and already recognizes the rabbit hole he has begun to go down, lacking the level of comfort and clarity in purchasing decisions? 

 

I feel like at some point I can definitely be at the level where I can distinguish the nuances in products and make good decisions... There just has to be a clearer, more reasonable way for amateurs to navigate this bloated fishing market we live in now so as to not go broke or crazy in the process. I don't have thousands to spend without consequence and I would like to know I'm purchasing products that will get the job done and provide a good level of durability. Is that really too much to ask? 

Wow! That's got to be the longest post/rant thing here, no?

 

OK here is the answer; STOP READING. You (as do most younger folks these days) have a good cognitive understanding of the situation, and yet seem to lack the ability to translate that into an effective plan for the task at hand. Assuming you have a rod and reel and some lures now, use that as the starting point (what else could one do). When you go fishing ask your self these simple questions based on YOUR (at this time not extensive) fishing experience:

 

-What do I like about this [fill in any rod, reel, line, lure etc that may apply]

 

-What don't I like about this ......?

 

-What would make this ... better?

 

Then make your tackle choice accordingly, then your equipment will by evolution not only be well suited to the way YOU fish, but will continue to over time as your experience increases make those decisions more efficient and focused. Now if you want the "perfect" combo today, I can't help, (nor can anyone else) YMMV (but it won't)

 

 

[TotalNoob]

Good stuff here, just what I needed honestly. Feeling a lot better today and definitely less frustrated.

 

Fascinating stuff on the braking system on the Tatula/Fuego. Given my still proneness to backlashing (when I'm feeling like I can back it off just a bit), I feel like I'm pretty well sold on the magforce z system (for now). 

 

Troubled by the Twing comments. I do know that for some early season/clear water applications I will need my junction knot (FG) down in the spool and the mere thought of not being able to cast/retrieve completely uninhibited is as much a turnoff as the magforce z brakes are a turn-on.

 

Currently I'm running 30lb braid to 10-15lb fluoro or mono (which sounds like it would pass) but I don't know what applications I might incorporate in the future. Honestly, the Twing thing kind of has me leaning in the other price point direction toward the Fuego CT, though it seems like the Tatula is possibly a little more durable which is important to me. I'm definitely in the camp of spending a little more in the short run for the long run payoff (hence the initial curado K purchase). I'll be thinking about this trade-off as I await the next ebay coupon code. 

 

In regards to the Curado K I purchased, it came from what seems to be reputable seller on ebay, American legacy fishing. I did check the box and reel upon arrival (as I check everything arriving from amazon and ebay these days) for signs of prior use/opening but if there were any they slipped past me. When I finally clearly identified the spool pile-up issue it was a month too late for return. I was still acclimating to a baitcaster at the time and was largely more comfortable throwing on my spinning gear while the bite was hot in the Spring. 

 

The seller pointed me toward Shimano directly. I called them and there is a form online I can fill out and send in to them with the reel. I assume this is manufacturer defect - I am quite careful and particular with my gear. When researching this issue I found buried deep within the comments on a youtube vid about "how to spool line on a baitcaster ... yada yada yada" someone commented that their line piled up to the right on their new curado K. Their description is identical to my experience. 

 

Can anyone provide any insight into their experience with sending in their reel to Shimano? Would this be the recommended route in this situation?

[Team9nine]

Couldn't tell from OP thread if new, refurbished, or used, but can say American Legacy is a rock solid dealer/shop. They wouldn't sell anything that was knowingly wrong. Hope you get it worked out...Curados really are solid reels. If you ever do decide to part with it, you'll have no problems selling it.

[burrows]

You could definitely sell the k easily on eBay. Easily ! 

[MisterDeadeye]

2 hours ago, TotalNoob said:

Good stuff here, just what I needed honestly. Feeling a lot better today and definitely less frustrated.

 

Fascinating stuff on the braking system on the Tatula/Fuego. Given my still proneness to backlashing (when I'm feeling like I can back it off just a bit), I feel like I'm pretty well sold on the magforce z system (for now). 

 

Troubled by the Twing comments. I do know that for some early season/clear water applications I will need my junction knot (FG) down in the spool and the mere thought of not being able to cast/retrieve completely uninhibited is as much a turnoff as the magforce z brakes are a turn-on.

 

Sent you a PM.

[Chris at Tech]

First off, the easiest question to knock off.  Yes, send your Curado to Shimano or another reputable reel service for service.

 

Dude -- I think you're REALLY REALLY overthinking all this... 

 

Treat it like mattress shopping.  You can attempt to compare all the different Sealy mattresses to the Sertas but at the end of the day you pick the one that feels best when you lay down on it.  Do the same for your reel.  Go into Bass Pro, Cabelas, or some other retailer that has a decent selection and just see how they feel in hand, how they feel mounted on a rod.  As long as you're purchasing one from one of the well-known brands, you'll be just fine.

 

Then LEARN your reel.  Play with the settings.  Cast lures of different weights.  If you're prone to back-lashing, put a 2-in strip of electrical tape of 35-40 yards deep in the spool -- that'll contain backlashes better than any braking system.  Being comfortable with your reel will serve you better than chasing the specs of all the reels you don't have.

 

If you're looking for a magic formula on how to choose a reel based on max drag, number of bearings, funny marketing terms (Hagane?  Magforce Z?  T-wing  Blah blah blah), reel weight or some other specs then you're never going to actually fish since you'll continue to be stuck in the infinite loop of paralysis by analysis.  "Feature limited"???  Are you concerned you're not gonna get the satellite radio or the cooling seats?    It's a fishing reel -- it casts a lure out and retrieves it.  Let's not over complicate things.

 

There are definitely some general guidelines to follow depending on the type of fishing you want to do, but besides that don't get into the minutiae.  For example, if you want a "general" combo you'll want to look at something that's 6'6" - 7', M or MH power and a reel with a 6:1 ratio.

 

Why are people on the internet recommending reel X over reel Y?  Because they like it -- period.  Very few online sources will provide any information or analysis based on anything other than their experience using something.  (If you're really curious to see a *REAL* breakdown of feature comparison and some good evidence about why reel X is better than reel Y, then check out http://www.alanhawk.com/).  The vast majority of everything else is lip service based solely on whether the "reviewer" liked the reel or not.

[Deleted account]

1 hour ago, Chris at Tech said:

 

Treat it like mattress shopping.  You can attempt to compare all the different Sealy mattresses to the Sertas but at the end of the day you pick the one that feels best when you lay down on it. 

LOL. One of our salt water fishing buddies was a mattress guy, and would tell us about the industry. This is before space foam, and number dialing, and all the new glitz, but there were only 3 main models in 4 sizes with different covers, that they would rebrand for different retailers and department stores, so the mattress you bought from Macy's was the same as the one you didn't quite love at the mattress store with a different tag on it (that you would go to jail if you removed)...

[fishwizzard]

2 minutes ago, reason said:

but there were only 3 main models in 4 sizes with different covers, that they would rebrand for different retailers and department stores, so the mattress you bought from Macy's was the same as the one you didn't quite love at the mattress store with a different tag on it (that you would go to jail if you removed)...

I listen to old radio dramas and this was a plot point in one of them, so the industry has been like that for a while.  

[LCG]

It is simple or as complicated as you want it to be. If you want to keep it simple, here is my advice, take it for what's its worth. 

 

Spinning rod, 6'6"-7'6" (personal preference), medium power, fast action. 

 

Baitcasting rod, 6'6" - 7'6",medium heavy power, fast action. 

 

Rod brands are a personal preference as are reels. For rods I like st Croix. For reels I like Pflueger president xt spinning reels size 30 and Daiwa fuego ct baitcasting reels. Both are bang for your buck, durable, quality reels that will do you well and last a long time. 

 

Buy what feels right to you. Think of it like shopping for a car. Lots of models with a ton of little differences. Huge range in price and quality. 

[Deleted account]

11 hours ago, fishwizzard said:

I listen to old radio dramas 

What stylus on your turntable?...  

[Hulkster]

for what its worth, I think the last few years worth of shimano spinning reels (with the propulsion management system) cast better and have no line twist relative to other spinning reels I've tried.

 

 

[Buffdaddy54]

Checkout TackleTours review of the Fuego CT

[fishwizzard]

3 hours ago, reason said:

What stylus on your turntable?...  

Turntable?  A true enthusiast prefers wax cylinders.  

[NYWayfarer]

16 hours ago, Chris at Tech said:

Dude -- I think you're REALLY REALLY overthinking all this... 

I agree.

 

One of Nike's slogans is: "Just do it" That's my advice Just buy a reel that has a lot of great reviews here and other places and you should be fine.

 

Everyone gets a lemon now and then, that's what returns and warranties are for.

[MisterDeadeye]

2 hours ago, KastKingUSA said:

Stay tuned...we have some big plans for serious anglers of ALL levels.

That's good to hear! Like I said originally, I wasn't trying to say that KastKing stuff is garbage, it's just inexpensive because of where it's made, and there's not quite as much care taken(in China, generally speaking) on the very base level of the people putting the reels together, as you'd see in Malaysia or a European country for example. 

 

Your reels seem great. They're light, they have similar features to other big name reels on the market, the aesthetics are great(the Assassin is my favorite)... I'd already have one or two of your reels, baitcasting and spinning, if it wasn't for the reputation of Chinese manufacturing, and the anecdotes I've seen from various people with issues out of the box. 

 

It's not a knock on your company at all, and I'm interested in what you guys come up with next. 

[TotalNoob]

1 hour ago, Buffdaddy54 said:

Checkout TackleTours review of the Fuego CT

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwafuegoct.html

 

I just read that, thank you. Don't want to get ahead of myself but a cursory view of that site seems like it could be a good source of unbiased (or largely unbiased) reviews. I make this statement in contrast to the countless youtube channels and articles out there with the sole intent of just mindlessly pushing you toward putting the item in your cart.

 

The review process was structured and rated in several metrics yet simultaneously easy to follow and understand. Thanks for showing me that site. As an amateur angler trying to navigate the marketplace I very much appreciate that kind of information. 

[new2BC4bass]

I have to agree with fishnkamp.  I seldom have to touch the settings on my Daiwas.  My 50th Anniversary Zillion is as set-and-forget as my Chronarch 100B.  Only when I get into casting the light stuff do I have to make adjustments to my Daiwas.  Personally I do better with my TD-Z 105Hs than my Curado 51Es when it comes to light lures.

 

Daiwa T3 reels with Magforce 3D and reels with an SV spool are all pretty much set-and-forget even for a beginner.  Except for the occasional odd ball.  My first SV reel was an excellent backlasher until sent out for tuning.