Leader break offs

[Graham]

I’ve been using the Alberto knot to fasten a floro leader to braid for about a year now. I love this knot it’s quick and easy and it SEEMED to hold up really well until recently. The past two leaders I have tied have broken off at my knot. I am wondering if anyone has had an issue similar to this and any advice would be great. I don’t think I’ve changed anything about the way I’m tying...

[new2BC4bass]

I seriously doubt it is your knot tying ability.  Are your new leaders from a new spool?

[Deleted account]

1 hour ago, Graham said:

I’ve been using the Alberto knot to fasten a floro leader to braid for about a year now. I love this knot it’s quick and easy and it SEEMED to hold up really well until recently. The past two leaders I have tied have broken off at my knot. I am wondering if anyone has had an issue similar to this and any advice would be great. I don’t think I’ve changed anything about the way I’m tying...

Different rod?

[OkobojiEagle]

1 hour ago, Graham said:

I am wondering if anyone has had an issue similar

yes.  As I get more comfortable with a process, I will pay less attention to little details in the process and the smallest details will sometimes make a large difference in the outcome of the process.  Pay attention to tightening the knot smoothly and slowly completely bathing it in copious amounts of saliva.

 

oe

[MickD]

Breaking or unraveling? Leader breaking at the knot?  After the break, what is left, and what does it look like?

 

Doing more aggressive snapping or jigging now?

 

I never have mastered that knot, but I know if I put the tag end through the loop from the wrong way, it fails almost immediately.  But my failures were always unraveling, not breaking of leader or braid.

[J Francho]

Here's my solution: don't use a leader unless absolutely necessary.  I'd much prefer straight braid or mono/fluoro/copoly than use a leader connection. 

[Graham]

4 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Here's my solution: don't use a leader unless absolutely necessary.  I'd much prefer straight braid or mono/fluoro/copoly than use a leader connection. 

Seriously considering going this route with it. 

[J Francho]

I don't mind it on light setups, like a spinning rig with 15# braid, 8# leader for finesse stuff, but I try to avoid it on heavier setups.  To me, if I need fluoro for clear, rocky water, then I'll use straight fluoro.  I do not see the benefit of a leader.  In weeds and slop, then straight braid - no need for a leader.

[Graham]

 

@Mick D it’s been slipping, but I always prep my braid by scratching the waxy coating off...

2 hours ago, new2BC4bass said:

I seriously doubt it is your knot tying ability.  Are your new leaders from a new spool?

Pretty much brand loyal, but it is a fresh spool of my favorite leader material.

[LionHeart]

Of course there are many variables but I've found that some lines hold a leader knot better than others.  In my limited experience, mono seems to hold better than flouro.

[new2BC4bass]

2 hours ago, Graham said:

Pretty much brand loyal, but it is a fresh spool of my favorite leader material.

I only asked because maybe you got a bad spool.  Wasn't planning on trying to talk you into a different brand. 

 

EDIT:  Bad spools get brought up quite often, but I have to admit I don't recall every having one myself.  Although the 10# P-Line CX I tried broke pretty easy.  Don't know if it is because I got a bad spool, or did something to it myself like kinking it without realizing I had.

 

[Graham]

9 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

I only asked because maybe you got a bad spool.  Wasn't planning on trying to talk you into a different brand. 

 

EDIT:  Bad spools get brought up quite often, but I have to admit I don't recall every having one myself.  Although the 10# P-Line CX I tried broke pretty easy.  Don't know if it is because I got a bad spool, or did something to it myself like kinking it without realizing I had.

 

Yeah you do hear the “bad spool” excuse getting thrown around a lot, and it’s hard to say how often a bad spool actually makes it onto a shelf. As far as brand goes I only mentioned that as to imply that I haven’t changed anything, but my knots are slipping now. 

[MassYak85]

How many "turns" or "wraps" are you using when you tie the knot? Try adding a few more and see if it makes a difference. I have had albright knots slip if I used too few wraps with smaller diameter braids. 

[Graham]

1 hour ago, MassYak85 said:

How many "turns" or "wraps" are you using when you tie the knot? Try adding a few more and see if it makes a difference. I have had albright knots slip if I used too few wraps with smaller diameter braids. 

I do 5 up and 5 back. I’ll try a few more next time.

[ww2farmer]

8 hours ago, Graham said:

Yeah you do hear the “bad spool” excuse getting thrown around a lot, and it’s hard to say how often a bad spool actually makes it onto a shelf. As far as brand goes I only mentioned that as to imply that I haven’t changed anything, but my knots are slipping now. 

The Alberto knot can NOT slip if tied properly. On a properly tied one, the harder you pull, the tighter it gets, like a Chinese finger trap. You have to pay upmost attention to the way you run your tag end of braid back through the loop, it has to go through on the same side as it came in, one wrong move, and it will slip. I can almost 100% guarantee that your running the tag end of the braid out the loop on the wrong side if your knot is slipping.

 

I am not saying this to be condescending, or holier than thou.......as it's an easy enough thing to do, especially after you have become comfortable/proficient tying this knot, and all of a sudden might be taking that one small final detail for granted.

 

I have been tying this knot for 10 years using original Power Pro braid, and Seaguar FC. On flipping sticks, cranking rods, light line spinning outfits, and everything in-between. More 5 and 6lb er's than I can count, a lot of which have absolutely had the wood laid to the them on hook sets with big rods..ZERO slips, breaks, or failures of any kind of the Alberto knot.....and by zero....I really mean ZERO. I have also bent/straightened hooks trying to pull snags free before that knot has ever slipped or failed.

[MassYak85]

5 minutes ago, Graham said:

I do 5 up and 5 back. I’ll try a few more next time.

I think I'm usually doing 7 myself. But it depends on the line size. I would think 5 would be enough but maybe not for lighter braids. Also the thing about the tag end that @ww2farmer said is important. 

[NHBull]

12 hours ago, J Francho said:

Here's my solution: don't use a leader unless absolutely necessary.  I'd much prefer straight braid or mono/fluoro/copoly than use a leader connection. 

This.....I was a braid to leader guy until this year....by this weekend there will be no more....

braid or co-polly all the way

 

On a side note, given how fast the FG techniques are improving, I believe it will be the only knots for the next generation of anglers....

[Graham]

@ww2farmer I’ve been tying it for a year so I’m pretty familiar with how the knot works.

[ww2farmer]

17 hours ago, Graham said:

@ww2farmer I’ve been tying it for a year so I’m pretty firmiliar with how the knot works.

Say's the guy whose having trouble with the knot slipping.....maybe your not "firmiliar" with it as you think.

[LxVE Bassin]

Do 7 raps each way. Make sure you are tying it on correctly. The main line goes in and out of the loop opposite directions. It has to be a miss step in your knot tying process. 

[Tracker22]

I’ve had similar problems using double uni. I’m currently using Hank Parker’s tip, using a micro swivel. The only problem I’ve encountered is that your leader must be very short (6”) or it will destroy your guides. The only reason I use a leader is that I like the sensitivity of braid but I’m fishing rocks and they keep stealing my jigs. I haven’t lost a single jig sense I started using the leader.

[LxVE Bassin]

2 hours ago, Tracker22 said:

I’ve had similar problems using double uni. I’m currently using Hank Parker’s tip, using a micro swivel. The only problem I’ve encountered is that your leader must be very short (6”) or it will destroy your guides. The only reason I use a leader is that I like the sensitivity of braid but I’m fishing rocks and they keep stealing my jigs. I haven’t lost a single jig sense I started using the leader.

I use the Alberto knot on 5 of my set ups and they have not done any damage to my guides. My average leader length is 8 feet. What rods were you using that had their guides damaged.

[Big Swimbait]

Lefty Kreh knot. I'm not going to say you can't screw it up, but you would have to try to do so.

 

 

[Tracker22]

3 hours ago, LxVE Bassin said:

I use the Alberto knot on 5 of my set ups and they have not done any damage to my guides. My average leader length is 8 feet. What rods were you using that had their guides damaged.

The micro swivel can damage the guides not the knot.

[Graham]

On 7/7/2018 at 5:33 PM, ww2farmer said:

Say's the guy whose having trouble with the knot slipping.....maybe your not "firmiliar" with it as you think.

Maybe not. Like I said I’ve never had any issues with it until recently. What may have happened is the loop could have flipped while I was tying, and when I thought I was feeding the tag back the way I started it was the opposite. We’ll see if I can’t tie it right next time.