Do slightly out of line rod guides affect performance?

[Further North]

5 hours ago, Drew03cmc said:

Really? You're worried about guides that are barely 10 degrees off? Fish the rod. It'll fish like it should. The size of guides there are such that they will not affect performance. Use it. It's a $60 rod. You didn't pay for an NRX, to expect perfect guide alignment is a bit much. I've used fly rods that are more out of whack than that and those guides are smaller, line bigger and more sensitive to guide placement as a result. So, if a fly rod didn't make a difference, this certainly won't. 

So...if a person were in a store, and that rod was one of the ones in the rack, they should just buy it?  Or should they be smart and grab the one next to it that has guides that are lined up?

 

There's two things going on here:

1. Faulty product.  Makers and retailers  need to stand behind that.  @Largemouth21 will find out how that shakes out tomorrow.
2. Apparently asking the customer to funs return shipping of 1/3 the price of the product.  Again, @Largemouth21 will find out if it is the case tomorrow.  If it is, it's absurd.

If I buy a package of pork chops at the grocery store, get home and open them, and they've gone bad, they are going back to the store...and they didn't cost $60...There is no reason to accept faulty product from any seller, unless it is understood up front as part of the sale (and probably involves a discount).

[Drew03cmc]

51 minutes ago, Further North said:

So...if a person were in a store, and that rod was one of the ones in the rack, they should just buy it?  Or should they be smart and grab the one next to it that has guides that are lined up?

 

There's two things going on here:

1. Faulty product.  Makers and retailers  need to stand behind that.  @Largemouth21 will find out how that shakes out tomorrow.
2. Apparently asking the customer to funs return shipping of 1/3 the price of the product.  Again, @Largemouth21 will find out if it is the case tomorrow.  If it is, it's absurd.

If I buy a package of pork chops at the grocery store, get home and open them, they are going back to the store...and they didn't cost $60...There is no reason to accept faulty product from any seller, unless it is understood up front as part of the sale (and probably involves a discount).

Most people would not notice guides that askew. They're not far enough out to affect a d**n thing. Faulty is not guides slightly, and I mean slightly, out of line. Faulty is a reelseat falling off, guide inserts coming out. I'm just pointing out that, while unfavorable, it's not going to affect anything.

58 minutes ago, Largemouth21 said:

If it wouldn’t bother you that’s okay, BUT I have had 15$ zebco 202 combos that had guides better aligned than that... there is no reason especially with the precise equipment of this day and age that I should get a brand new rod that looks like this 

Again, they're not far enough out to affect anything. I guess if you want to send it back over that minute an issue, be my guest. I'd keep it and fish it.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The way coil loops come off a reel I doubt whstvyou see would affect performance. In principal, it's a qc miss and should and likely will be made right. Your call. 

[LegendaryBassin]

3 hours ago, Further North said:

Don't take this as a criticism of your post, but that's nuts.  The retailer sold it, they need to step up and make it right for their customer...

I agree, I've said the same often...but asking the customer to foot the bill for shipping back defective product is nuts, particularly when the product is new...

 

Take it out and use it a few times...fine.  Damage it and send it in for repairs/replacement...fine.  But new in the box and not right and they want $$$ to fix the problem?  THat's not taking care of customers...

That's how I'd look at it...

No problem. I don't take it personally. I am just aware of how businesses are run. You have to look at from a retailers/manufacturers p.o.v and be more understanding. Like others have stated you might as well just keep it as its only a $59 rod and no point in paying 33% of the rods for another rod for slightly misaligned guides. However, I do expect better QC on the rod like you stated. 

[Further North]

2 hours ago, LegendaryBassin said:

No problem. I don't take it personally. I am just aware of how businesses are run. You have to look at from a retailers/manufacturers p.o.v and be more understanding. Like others have stated you might as well just keep it as its only a $59 rod and no point in paying 33% of the rods for another rod for slightly misaligned guides. However, I do expect better QC on the rod like you stated. 

I was looking at it from a business perspective as well.

 

If one of my customers calls me and tells me they've got defective product, I get someone in there ASAP and if it's bad we get it out of there and replaced as fast as we can...on our dime.

 

We're not retail, but I've been at this for 35 years and that's how I take care of my customers.

[Further North]

3 hours ago, Drew03cmc said:

Most people would not notice guides that askew. They're not far enough out to affect a d**n thing. Faulty is not guides slightly, and I mean slightly, out of line. Faulty is a reelseat falling off, guide inserts coming out. I'm just pointing out that, while unfavorable, it's not going to affect anything.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

We're that my rod, it'd go back on their dime for replacement or refund.  If they didn't accommodate that request, I'd happily report that here, and mention it any time I had the opportunity for years. $60 is $60 and I expect to get what I ordered...and I wouldn't order a rod with crooked guides.

[Stephen B]

1 hour ago, Further North said:

I was looking at it from a business perspective as well.

 

If one of my customers calls me and tells me they've got defective product, I get someone in there ASAP and if it's bad we get it out of there and replaced as fast as we can...on our dime.

 

We're not retail, but I've been at this for 35 years and that's how I take care of my customers.

I see both sides and definitely understand where you are coming from. I hope they figure everything out and take care of the issues. What I recommend doing (no idea if they will) is to recommend if they require return shipping be paid for returning the rod then I would ask for a promo code/discount for the next order over $100. This would ensure they still make a little money on the future order and they still keep you as a long-term customer. Ultimately, a win-win situation. Goodluck!

[NYWayfarer]

12 hours ago, Largemouth21 said:

If it wouldn’t bother you that’s okay, BUT I have had 15$ zebco 202 combos that had guides better aligned than that... there is no reason especially with the precise equipment of this day and age that I should get a brand new rod that looks like this 

A saying my Dad has comes to mind when I read this. He says, "My money is perfect, no defects, not broken, the right size, shape and color. So should be the items I purchase with it."

 

I am interested in seeing how this turns out. This is not a warranty issue it is a straight up defective product return. It should be replaced for free. If it was from Amazon, look into what they have to say as well.

 

@Largemouth21 asked me if my Calamus is defective and I took a look at it. The second guide on mine is ever so slightly off. Not enough to bother me and it has not effected the rods performance at all.

[Further North]

6 hours ago, Stephen B said:

I see both sides and definitely understand where you are coming from. I hope they figure everything out and take care of the issues. What I recommend doing (no idea if they will) is to recommend if they require return shipping be paid for returning the rod then I would ask for a promo code/discount for the next order over $100. This would ensure they still make a little money on the future order and they still keep you as a long-term customer. Ultimately, a win-win situation. Goodluck!

Decent compromise, I like it.

[LionHeart]

May be in the minority here but I'd see how it fishes.  Odds are just fine.  I'd find something else to worry about.  How much did you pay for this rod?

 

[MickD]

On 7/1/2018 at 1:15 PM, Scott F said:

I use a spiral wrapped bait casting rod. NONE of the guides are lined up. A rod with slightly misaligned guides isn't going to hurt anything. It's not something I'd spend $20 to get replaced.

A spiral rod is supposed to look that way, but a regular wrap is not.  It would bug me forever, and sounds like others are similarly affected with the curse.  I had a spiral one time that I had wrapped with way too big of guides, and it performed well, but when I found out the guides were way oversize (early in my building days), it bugged me until I rewrapped with the right guides.  No problem now.  You're right, it's all in the head.  

[Black Hawk Basser]

As a rod builder, I can't get my head around how these guides were epoxied without someone checking the alignment first.  That's pretty ugly.

 

It would bother me aesthetically...I had a *** rod that every guide was in line but all were off from the reel seat.  That thing casted like crap.

[MickD]

It may have casted like crap, but I maintain it was not because of a little misalignment.  Ever put a two piece rod together with the one piece out of alignment by a few degrees?  Did it cast a lot different than when perfectly aligned?  I have done it many times and it is always the appearance that tips me off, not the casting quality or lack of it.

[Further North]

On 7/3/2018 at 3:44 PM, MickD said:

It may have casted like crap, but I maintain it was not because of a little misalignment.  Ever put a two piece rod together with the one piece out of alignment by a few degrees?  Did it cast a lot different than when perfectly aligned?  I have done it many times and it is always the appearance that tips me off, not the casting quality or lack of it.

You know...I can't remember ever doing that...but I can tell you without qualification it'll screw you up something fierce on a fly rod...

 

I have a big two piece musky rod that I could try it out on for a baitcaster...

[evilcatfish]

If I buy a new car and notice a blemish in the paint a couple days later, it's going right back to the dealer. Would said blemish affect performance? No, but if I knew about it I'd of not payed what I did. In the case of this rod, you had reasonable expectation that you were paying for a factory new item free of defects, it should be made right. 

[RB 77]

I once had a $200 factory rod that looked like they decided to acid warp it at first then changed their mind half way through. Haha. Ended up selling the rod for other reasons anyway. It not the end of the world, but it is a matter of principal. Like DVT said, your call whether to hang on to it or not...

[Drew03cmc]

Well, almost a week later, what did Kastking say, @Largemouth21? 

[WRB]

Look at a Roberts spiral wrap rod if you think alignment is critical...no guides are in line.

If the workmanship is important then return it, you get what you pay for.

Tom

[Drew03cmc]

20 minutes ago, WRB said:

Look at a Roberts spiral wrap rod if you think alignment is critical...no guides are in line.

If the workmanship is important then return it, you get what you pay for.

Tom

Spirals are great, but not many off the shelf rods with them...

[Further North]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

Look at a Roberts spiral wrap rod if you think alignment is critical...no guides are in line.

If the workmanship is important then return it, you get what you pay for.

Tom

Irrelevant, here.

 

The rod in question is not a spiral wrap, the buyer is dissatisfied, a full refund is in order.  With no shipping costs incurred by the buyer.

 

Gotta be blunt here: anyone who says otherwise does not understand taking care of the customer, particularly in the age of the internet where one bad review can impact thousands...possibly tens of thousands...of sales...if there's any detail offered...

 

Just saying...yeah, the retailer, and even the maker can win the battle, but lose the war in ways that a lotta folks don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around...

 

Gotta look about past the toes of our shoes if we want to understand long term impact.  It's a cliche...and a joke, but Dr. Phil once said, "You wanna be right, or you wanna be alone?"

 

There's some Texas wisdom, right there.

[WRB]

"If the workmanship bothers you return it"! It's definately poor workmanship, it's also functional.

Tom

[Further North]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

"If the workmanship bothers you return it"! It's definately poor workmanship, it's also functional.

Tom

This stuff is all bout leveling expectations up front.

 

...and the burden lies on the seller, and the manufacturer.

[Largemouth21]

Update guys I apologize for being so long but I’ve been out of state and haven’t been posting. I’ve went through a big email discussion with Kastking and at first they wouldn’t help me out, they said that it looked straight. I told them I’ve bought 10$ Zebco combos with perfectly lined guides and that this was not acceptable. They then changed their story and finally decided to send me a rod tip, free of charge. The rod tip I received looks pretty straight and I am happy...

[Further North]

Glad it worked out well!

[Largemouth21]

55 minutes ago, Further North said:

Glad it worked out well!

Thanks! Me too...