HEEELP! My Abu Ambassadeur 5000 Backlashes

[Cranks4fun]

Today I bought two older Swedish made, Abu Ambassadeur "One 5000's" for $15 each and they are in great shape, except that one constantly backlashes. I have lots of baitcasting reels (Shimanos, Daiwas, and Quantums) and they all cast well without backlashing (except for rare backlashes caused by user error), but I have not been able to tame one of these two Abu's. I have read that there are new brake blocks you can get for the centrifugal brakes. That may be the issue, but I cannot tell by looking. These are the older two-pin centrifugal brakes - I hear the make 6-pin brakes now. Any ABU specialists out there? I feel sure I could just cast heavier weights on the one reel, but it is backlashing on a 3/8 oz spinnerbait with 2 blades. That doesn't happen on the other identical reel. I really want to love these reels because they have a great history and they are durable. Any wisdom or advice would be appreciated.

[Tim Kelly]

Check whether there are any brake blocks in the troublesome one. Also, check there's no oil contaminating the brake drum piece. You might also take the cast control cap off and turn the little copper washer over, they sometimes get dimpled if people are using them with too much tension.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The first thing we do when Tuning those old ambassaduers is Chuck the brake blocks. The non disengaging level wind slows them down plenty. Ck the spool tension spacers. Replace as needed or flip them over as a temporary fix if dimpled. 

[Cranks4fun]

First of all, Thank you guys for taking the time to respond and share your Ambassadeur wisdom, Tim and DVC. Secondly, I did not even think about checking that copper plate under the tension knob. Tim, I did find a little oil in that brake drum area and I cleaned it off last night AFTER I was out at 10:30 PM casting in the front yard (Neighbors must think I'm drinking or doing drugs). I got up this morning and put on a 1/2 Oz War Eagle spinnerbait and it casted fine. It was either the oil or the low weight or both. I will check the plate under the spool tension knob. DVC, You said chuck the brake blocks? That seems like it would make it worse, but hey, maybe you're right. Could you explain how that would improve/ reduce the tendency to backlash to a ABU novice? My brain wants to think (and it doesn't do much of that anymore) that would increase the problem of spool overrun, but I'm sure there is a reason for you guys doing that.  

[Tim Kelly]

I think removing the brake blocks completely would be a bold move. I've never felt the urge to do that. 

[Cranks4fun]

I am cautious about that too, Tim, even though I feel sure there must be something to it for those guys at DVC to use the method. I'm not denying that it could work/ help, but I need to get a little understanding of the mechanics of that before I will be willing to try it. If my brain can wrap around the physics of the technique, I'll probably try it.

[Tim Kelly]

It would only take a few moments to remove the brake blocks and find out. I expect I'd know what would happen, but as you say, there must be method in DVT's madness. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

the free spool on the old reels is so limited the brakes just don't do much of anything. Keep them if you want but I think your issue lies else where. 

[Cranks4fun]

Thanks again for taking the time to share your insight and experience with these reels, DVC.  

[crypt]

I took my blocks off years ago, they really are of no big help. educated thumb and years of practice helped. I also read where Hank Parker had done the same. I can cast 1/4 oz. baits all day long on a 45/4600 with no problems.

[OkobojiEagle]

A little hillbilly engineering to control spool speed on older Abu C series:  Underfill the spool by 1/4 - 1/3.  Use 90wt. oil in spool bearings.  If you want to see these reels really sing... replace both worm gear bushings with bearings and the side plate idler gear is available with bearings as well.  My "used to be" 4601c3 (2 pin brake) now 4601c6 is a great pitching reel, but I can't trust it to reach out with an over head cast!

 

oe

[Log Catcher]

It could possibly be the line on them. I had two identical setups one time. I put new line line on both of them from the same spool. The one I used for spinnerbaits was fine. The one I used for crankbaits would backlash every time you cast it. These reels were the newer version of yours. They were the original Abu Garcia winch round reels.

[WRB]

1st thing we did with the legacy Ambassadors was remove the brakes. Used these reels between the early 1960's to mid 1990's without brakes. The beryllium copper end plates with a slight dimple is normal and as DVT recommended you can flip them over, just make sure they have light reel oil. 

The 2 reels in the photo aren't old legacy reels, fairly new models post 2000 if they have instant anti reverse, the older models don't.

If you fish these older reels upgrade the drag disk.

Tom

 

[Steve1357]

5 hours ago, OkobojiEagle said:

A little hillbilly engineering to control spool speed on older Abu C series:  Underfill the spool by 1/4 - 1/3.  Use 90wt. oil in spool bearings.  If you want to see these reels really sing... replace both worm gear bushings with bearings and the side plate idler gear is available with bearings as well.  My "used to be" 4601c3 (2 pin brake) now 4601c6 is a great pitching reel, but I can't trust it to reach out with an over head cast!

 

oe

My times were different. I thought I'd hot rod an old 5000 which came with spool bushings. Put in the new bearings, sucker would cast a mile. Problem is it was too hot in the sense I had to crank down the spool cap tension so much, that much tension was bothering me on retrieve. I love these reels, you can spend a lot of time on them just like your neighbor with three cars sitting on blocks and one running in the driveway....lol

[Yuddzy]

On 5/24/2018 at 9:18 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

The first thing we do when Tuning those old ambassaduers is Chuck the brake blocks. The non disengaging level wind slows them down plenty. Ck the spool tension spacers. Replace as needed or flip them over as a temporary fix if dimpled. 

Sorry to dig up this old thread fellas. DVT, you mean to say that with ambassadeur reels in general, you disengage all of the braking pins and simply use thumb+spool tension to avoid backlash?

[bulldog1935]

First thing on an old Ambassadeur is set spool tension for your casting weight. 

From the rod tip height even with your head, you should have enough spool tension set so the reel will not backlash without thumb when you let the lure fall to the ground. 

It should just hit the ground and stop by itself. 

Now you're ready to cast.

Selah. 

_____________________________

 

Of course you use centrifugal brakes on Ambassadeur - it's almost like you don't have a choice.   Freespool + centrifugal brake was the Ambassadeur patent.  The only adjustment on the reel is the spool tension - you adjust it as I described above. 

[Tatulatard]

So rather than use the centrifugal brakes with these we remove them and then crank down on the spool tension brake knob?  These are outside my wheelhouse but that seems strange.  Shows how much I know about these.

[Yuddzy]

2 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

First thing on an old Ambassadeur is set spool tension for your casting weight. 

From the rod tip height even with your head, you should have enough spool tension set so the reel will not backlash without thumb when you let the lure fall to the ground. 

It should just hit the ground and stop by itself. 

Now you're ready to cast.

Selah. 

_____________________________

 

ignore always-wants-an-argument below

Of course you use centrifugal brakes on Ambassadeur - it's almost like you don't have a choice.   Freespool + centrifugal brake was the Ambassadeur patent.  The only adjustment on the reel is the spool tension - you adjust it as I described above. 

Thanks again, that's a bit different than other reels I've seen. Usually the recommendation is to tighten spool tension just enough to remove play and go from there. I suppose the ambassadeur is different because as you said, spool tension is really the only adjustable nature of the reel. 

[bulldog1935]

It changes when you attack the inertia in the spool and level wind. 

When they're low enough, you can cast without spool tension. 

When the lure weight is low enough, you can cast without centrifugal. 

 

This is my 1500C, inertia is low enough, the centrifugal is removed, there's a spacer in its place, and mag brake popped into the centrifugal race using only 2 magnets - this is a reel for 1/16 oz. The end cap will only tighten enough to almost take out end play. 

Raced-out LW, shallow lightweight spool, micro-spool-bearings. 

[Yuddzy]

1/16oz is crazy low. I don't even know what lure I could cast that would weigh 1/16oz. What do stock ambassadeurs do, usually? I've heard 3/8oz for most models on this forum. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

10 hours ago, Yuddzy said:

Sorry to dig up this old thread fellas. DVT, you mean to say that with ambassadeur reels in general, you disengage all of the braking pins and simply use thumb+spool tension to avoid backlash?

On the old two pin spools , yes