lithium trolling battery

[bagofdonuts]

Anyone use a lithium ion battery. Just saw one at my boat mechanic's shop. Supposed to be able to recharge the thing 7,000 times, looked like a lawn mower battery and weighed nothing (maybe 5 or 6 lbs). Downside is they cost $700. but if it last 10x longer than regular battery it may be worth it.

I'm a little concerned about fire hazard from seeing all the cell phone problems. Curious if anyone is using one and what they think about it.

 

[Darren.]

I've researched them, they're great tech, super light, but as

you point out, prohibitively expensive. I'd love to have a 10

pound Lithium battery that provides as much juice as a lead

acid trolling battery....

[J Francho]

My girlfriend (HR Director) works at a lithium battery R&D plant.  Many manufacturers use their safer electrolyte fill solution.  Even some operations from China are moving to the safer solution.  I think the cost is a little high for the average angler, but there are a few Elite pros benefiting from the reduced weight.  Also, many kayak anglers are using lithium powered Torqueedo motors.

 

See the electrolyte vids here:

http://www.nohms.com/

 

Torqeedo:

https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us

[Janderson45]

I believe most trolling motors (minn kota at least) state that you shouldn't use lithium batteries.  Not sure if it voids the warranty?  I feel like they're just being over cautious though.  

 

I use a small 12v lithium battery in my kayak to power my fish finder, the battery is roughly the size of a baseball (but square) and is waterproof, sealed and contained in a small canvas pouch.  Less than half the size and weight of the standard lead batteries I was using and at 15 Ah provides nearly twice the battery life.  There are also accessories to connect it to a solar charger and a splitter to charge your phone or power numerous electronics.  Price was obviously high compared to the lead acid batteries, I think I paid around $150 dollars for it.  Worth it to be able to run a 7" HB Helix for 12 hours and take up less space in the kayak.

[looking45]

I've never heard of any warnings about lithium batteries and trolling motors . If there was a problem, I doubt most of the BASS Elite guys would be using them. They are lighter and they charge really fast. The biggest downside to them is when they run out of juice, they just quit. There is no warning that the battery is running down, you get full power from start to finish. Most people who sell you a lithium battery will also try to sell you a charger. You don't need a special charger, the charger you have now will work, BUT, it won't charge the lithiums to full capacity. It's a matter of about 5%. But if you're willing to spend the money on the batteries, why not spend another $300 on a charger that will fully charge them. 

[Scott F]

40 minutes ago, looking45 said:

Most people who sell you a lithium battery will also try to sell you a charger. You don't need a special charger, the charger you have now will work, BUT, it won't charge the lithiums to full capacity. It's a matter of about 5%. But if you're willing to spend the money on the batteries, why not spend another $300 on a charger that will fully charge them. 

My new Minn Kota Precision charger operator manual says 

"Minn Kota has not worked directly with any Lithium battery suppliers to determine if our chargers are compatible with their batteries. Most of the Lithium Battery manufactures post required charge stage information on their web sites."

[Janderson45]

Like I said, they may be being over cautious, but I knew that i read it somewhere..  

 

straight from minn kota's website FAQ:

[WRB]

Check out the Lithium Pro's site, Marine batteries and chargers.

Tom

[Way2slow]

I haven't done any research on them for TM use but a couple of things you might want to research.  What does a charger of one that size cost, they take special chargers. 

Second, the safety aspect.  I use tons of LiPo batteries in my RC stuff and you can actually burn you house down with them, a number of people had experienced that first hand.  Unlike a lead acid battery, a defective cell in a lithium battery can catch fire.  I know the technology has come a long way in the past several years, not too sure about the fire part.

[J Francho]

2 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

I know the technology has come a long way in the past several years, not too sure about the fire part.

In fact, my girlfriend works for a lithium battery R/D startup.  They're getting a lot of business these days, with their safer batteries and electrolyte fill:

 

http://www.nohms.com/

[Tennessee Boy]

I'll consider a lithium ion battery for my boat when we go ten years without a lithium battery fire story on the news.  There was a story on the news last night about a cell phone charger fire on a plane.  Restarting the clock.

[bagofdonuts]

and you would think the cell phone battery technology is way ahead of marine applications. since everyone is carrying one around.

[WRB]

Lithium Pro's is the marine battery the Elite pro's like Aaron Martens ans Ott DeFoe are using.

The Lithium battery are sold as a kit with a battery charger, the battery weight 1/3rd a AGM gr 31, about 30 lbs. 12V is about $1500, 24V about $2,200about, 36V about $3,500 as a kit. Amp hour ratings vary about 60AH for trolling motors and 80AH for cranking battery.

Charge time is around 50% faster then AGM or wet cells.

As you can see a high quality Lithium marine battery are still expensive, consider it's 1 battery not 2 for 24V or 3 for 36V, light weight, faster charging time and 10 year life.

Buying a new boat with 36V TM and state if the art electronics it's a viable option, save 150 lbs, fast charge time and 10 years of trouble free battery power.

Tom

 

[NHBull]

As soon as a company like MK jumps on board many will go this way.

If the 10 year cost breaks down to 350/ year with light weight and fast recharge, I'm  in

[Janderson45]

Until MK says it's OK to do so I wouldn't even consider it-  the cost is not my issue, the safety aspect outlined above along with the fact that MK explicitly states not to use them are my biggest issues.  When you spend $3K on an Ultrex why would you risk burning out the motor and potentially voiding your warranty?  

 

I can see why some of the pros would tinker with it, if they destroy an Ultrex they'll get another one for free, and they probably get the lithium batteries for free as well.

 

For the average weekend warrior it just doesn't make sense to me at this point.  The added cost of the batteries and chargers themselves plus a much greater fire hazard and potential to fry your TM?  I'll pass.

 

What I would consider however is running all of my graphs off of a dedicated lithium battery.. still not going to do it, I'll be running a group 31agm, but I'd at least consider a lithium alternative for that application.. 

[Fishingmickey]

2 hours ago, bagofdonuts said:

and you would think the cell phone battery technology is way ahead of marine applications. since everyone is carrying one around.

Been around long enough for the cost cutting research to see how cheaply they can make them. Where is that fine line....

FM

[Further North]

23 hours ago, Janderson45 said:

Until MK says it's OK to do so I wouldn't even consider it-  the cost is not my issue, the safety aspect outlined above along with the fact that MK explicitly states not to use them are my biggest issues.  When you spend $3K on an Ultrex why would you risk burning out the motor and potentially voiding your warranty?  

 

I can see why some of the pros would tinker with it, if they destroy an Ultrex they'll get another one for free, and they probably get the lithium batteries for free as well.

 

For the average weekend warrior it just doesn't make sense to me at this point.  The added cost of the batteries and chargers themselves plus a much greater fire hazard and potential to fry your TM?  I'll pass.

 

What I would consider however is running all of my graphs off of a dedicated lithium battery.. still not going to do it, I'll be running a group 31agm, but I'd at least consider a lithium alternative for that application.. 

I agree with you about not taking the risk...and I wouldn't do it because if I blew up a TM because of a choice I made, that's my error...

 

...But how is the power coming off the batteries any different?

[Way2slow]

I think MK is just playing a little CYA   I doubt there would be any problems with the bottom end ones that have the five presets.  The upper end models with variable speed is where problems might arise. They have a lot of electronics in them that could be over voltaged by the higher lithium voltages.   

[WRB]

Please explain why lithium voltage would be higher the AGM wet cell lead acid battery?

We typically over change traditional batteries to 13+ volts and draw it drawn with use.

3 fully charged AGM's in series is nearly 40 volts, 1 fully charged Lithium 36V is 36 volts.

Tom

[Way2slow]

13+ volts on lead acid is just a surface charge, it drops very quickly to below 12.8 volts as soon as a load is placed on it, or it rest for 24 hours.  Plus when loaded, it will drop to below 12.5 or more quickly.

This is 0ne to two volts lower than the typical lithium battery and the lithium will maintain it's higher voltages for longer periods of time.

[WRB]

Think we better talk to Lithium Pro's regarding full charge voltage. I know for a fact my 12v AGM's hold 13+ volts for a full 8 hours, checked many times at day's end.

I have an older digital Motor guide TM, no idea what the newer circuit boards are like.

I would be more concerned with state of the art OB's and electronics.

interesting topic 

Tom

[Way2slow]

OK, figured I had better do a little homework and quite using what I know about my RC batteries.

Here's what Optima says about their AGM batteries

"Fully charged, engine not running, starting batteries (all REDTOP^® or BLUETOP^® 34M) should measure about 12.6 volts to 12.8 volts. Deep-cycle batteries, including all YELLOWTOP^® and dual-purpose BLUETOP batteries, should measure approximately 13.0 to13.2 volts. "  So, yes you are right, your deep cycle batteries are higher.

I went to a web site for Lithium TM batteries and they said their 12V battery is 12.8 volts fully charged, so again, that's the same as the standard flooded cell battery. 

So, yes, you are right, your AGM deep cycles are probably putting out more voltage than the lithium batteries.  Tell MK that and they may want to void your warranty