Scrimless NFC

[bish0p]

NFC finally went scrimless on a few blanks. Any rod builders gonna try it? I'm still waiting for the grips I ordered.

https://northforkcomposites.com/x-ray-rod-blanks/

[spoonplugger1]

Scrimless is nothing new, nor does scrim add a bunch of weight, it's the new resin system that makes the big difference.

[.ghoti.]

I bought two NFC blanks during the GetBit 65% off sale. If I had known then what I know now, I would not have bought them.

 

I will NOT be buying anything else from NFC.

 

End of story.

[spoonplugger1]

I have many NFC rods, love them, no problems. That said, I spent quite a bit of time with the company before buying in to get a feel for any changes over the years from the G Loomis days, I circumvented many issues others have had. Helps to live within 40 miles.

The new website is far better than the original I had to work with, so hopefully this will help new customers.

[S Hovanec]

IMO, NFC is screwing with the custom builders.  Every time they have their 50% sale, I get a bunch of calls from people asking "what I can do for them" on a custom NFC.  They expect my price to go down because the blanks are on sale.  Newsflash, my price stays the same when they go on sale  and I'm not going to adjust my price and make less because of their sale.

[sarcazmo]

Are the overall issues with the blanks the way they treat their builders or something with the blanks themselves?

 

I'll admit I bit when I saw it and ordered two.

 

I was going to order two point blanks but when I saw these I figured why not.  I haven't built on either and was eventually going to get around to building on both.

[Hogsticker]

On 5/20/2018 at 11:00 AM, S Hovanec said:

IMO, NFC is screwing with the custom builders.  Every time they have their 50% sale, I get a bunch of calls from people asking "what I can do for them" on a custom NFC.  They expect my price to go down because the blanks are on sale.  Newsflash, my price stays the same when they go on sale  and I'm not going to adjust my price and make less because of their sale.

NFC is screwing with custom builders how exactly? Your price staying the same is completely your choice, and I take no issue with such, but I don't see how this impacts you negatively. Essentially, you're putting extra money in your pocket if the customer agrees to your price. 

If I were building for others for additional income or whatever, I would absolutely pass along the savings. I'm not losing money, and it seems like a golden opportunity to gain new customers. Once they see your work, because you are indeed very talented, chances are they will become returning customers. 

The sales are great imo. Not every person who builds, builds for paying customers. As a customer, if I saw the sale price and inquired for a custom quote, then was told the builder would still charge me their regular price, I would think to myself that seems kinda greedy. The builder is willing to put extra coin in their pocket, but does not want to share. I mean you're not losing money, just voiding the opportunity to make additional money. I'm not trying to be jerk like, just stating some food for thought. 

As for the blanks, I'm curious to see how these perform and stack up to Point Blank. IMO, the HMs aren't quite in the same league as PB. I really like the fact that these new blanks aren't sanded. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

NFC has these new direct sale prices that their own former distributors can't match. Then stuffs backordered forever nothing but grief for me every time 

[Hogsticker]

2 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

NFC has these new direct sale prices that their own former distributors can't match. Then stuffs backordered forever nothing but grief for me every time 

Yeah, they definitely have no problem taking your money, and then making you wait for the product. 

[S Hovanec]

16 hours ago, Hogsticker said:

NFC is screwing with custom builders how exactly?

 

 

Any NFC I have in stock, I will never be able to sell without taking a loss since they now sell direct for less than wholesale price.  They're also throwing the bone to their distributors that have inventory.  Why order from a dealer and pay wholesale when you can buy direct for less.  The other issue is backorders.  I've had customers cancel rods because of their order fulfillment time.  

[Lyman X]

I agree with ghoti and DVT. I think the company has an odor about it.

[.ghoti.]

14 hours ago, Hogsticker said:

Yeah, they definitely have no problem taking your money, and then making you wait for the product. 

You missed the point. Every dealer and distributor out there who has NFC blanks in stock has one lousy option now. Sell their inventory at a loss. They have no ther choice. This is not how dealers should be treated.

 

Scott said they are throwing the bone to their dealers. I say they have bent them over, hammered it and and broke it off in them. 

 

Like I said; that story is over for me.

[Angry John]

1 hour ago, .ghoti. said:

You missed the point. Every dealer and distributor out there who has NFC blanks in stock has one lousy option now. Sell their inventory at a loss. They have no ther choice. This is not how dealers should be treated.

 

Scott said they are throwing the bone to their dealers. I say they have bent them over, hammered it and and broke it off in them. 

 

Like I said; that story is over for me.

We all have to operate on an ethic and this is a good one to have.  Great info.

[Hogsticker]

4 hours ago, .ghoti. said:

You missed the point. Every dealer and distributor out there who has NFC blanks in stock has one lousy option now. Sell their inventory at a loss. They have no ther choice. This is not how dealers should be treated.

 

Scott said they are throwing the bone to their dealers. I say they have bent them over, hammered it and and broke it off in them. 

 

Like I said; that story is over for me.

Perhaps I'm confused. What you're saying is that NFC mandates what a distributor sells their products for, after the distributor has already purchased stock...... Or are you talking about customers who place an order with a dealer, and dealer has to order it from NFC as they have no stock? I have no idea what a dealer pays for these blanks, but I can't imagine they're in business to lose money. That being said, the distributer would have to be getting a rather smoking deal in order to make money, selling these blanks at 60% off. I know getbitoutdoors was selling some at 60% off, but I figured they were models they weren't going to carry any longer or overstock. Aside from that, I've only purchased NFC blanks directly from NFC during the fifty percent off. 

That last part of your quote seems rather painful. 

6 hours ago, S Hovanec said:

 

 

Any NFC I have in stock, I will never be able to sell without taking a loss since they now sell direct for less than wholesale price.  They're also throwing the bone to their distributors that have inventory.  Why order from a dealer and pay wholesale when you can buy direct for less.  The other issue is backorders.  I've had customers cancel rods because of their order fulfillment time.  

Okay, that makes more sense. Blanks you already have in your possession. I could definitely see how that would put you in a bad spot. 

[.ghoti.]

Hogsticker, allow to try one more time. There are dealers and distributors who had considerable inventory on hand when NFC decided to start selling direct to the public.

 

Said dealers paid more for each blank than NFC is selling them for now.

 

Where are you going to buy one of these blanks. Directly from NFC? Or, pay more for the same blank, and buy from a dealer?

 

The dealers are stuck with this inventory. Their only choice is to sell it at a loss.

 

If Ford Motor Company started selling cars and trucks directly to the public, for a lower price than they sell to dealers, how many dealers would remain in business, selling Fords.

[S Hovanec]

2 hours ago, Hogsticker said:

 What you're saying is that NFC mandates what a distributor sells their products for, after the distributor has already purchased stock.

 

Actually, yes.  It's part of your dealer contract along with a five figure opening order.  Like St Croix, NFC dictated what a dealer can sell their products for.  St Croix's pricing is MSRP for retail customers and 40% off MSRP for wholesale, no exceptions unless a model is discontinued.  I seem to recall NFCs wholesale being somewhere in the 25% off range and dealer cost was 45% off.  So basically the general public can buy them for less than their dealers.  I can't speak for their current practices as I've given up promoting their product.

[grub_man]

Thanks for sharing guys.  So, it sounds like that announcement was as much of a shock to the dealer and distribution network as it was to me, as a hobby builder, when I saw it.  I would hate to see the kind of hit the Batson group took on this one, if NFC didn't keep them in the loop with time to reduce inventory.

 

As a retail customer, I welcome price drops, and would like to see the price come down slightly across the board, as blanks are going up in price at a pretty steep rate these days.  However, if this business model becomes the norm, the suppliers that I know and enjoy patronizing will be in jeopardy, and will take with them a lot of knowledge and product diversity with them.  I will say that if this shift was handled in the way it sounds, I doubt that I will be patronizing NFC anytime soon.

 

I hope you all are able to do something with the stock you have on hand!

[sarcazmo]

Well hell, now I feel guilty for ordering two of these.

 

I ordered them the first day they were listed, still haven't received a shipment notification.  I figured they wouldn't list them if they didn't have them in stock.

 

I'd like to think they will somehow compensate their loyal distributors but it doesn't look like that will happen.  Next time I'll try point blank.

[S Hovanec]

50 minutes ago, sarcazmo said:

Well hell, now I feel guilty for ordering two of these.

 

Don't feel bad.  I just needed to vent some more after i started venting to @.ghoti. Iast week on the phone.  We got interrupted by the wife's birthday dinner.

[.ghoti.]

On 5/26/2018 at 7:17 PM, S Hovanec said:

 

Don't feel bad.  I just needed to vent some more after i started venting to @.ghoti. Iast week on the phone.  We got interrupted by the wife's birthday dinner.

I hope you had a fine celebration.

 

Scott and I are in complete agreement on this issue. He said he was venting. I think I was in full rant mode.

 

I have two blanks I can't, in good conscience, sell to anybody. When a company does something this desperate, they have to be on the verge of collapse. So, these two blanks are going sit in my rod rack until I have time to build them up for myself.

 

Hope I don't love "em.

 

[OkobojiEagle]

Slightly different question about scrimless blanks... I was under the impression that the scrim provided the strength and flexibility of the rod.  I need someone to school me on what scrim actually does as my present knowledge can't comprehend a rod without scrim.

 

oe

[Rahlow]

3 hours ago, OkobojiEagle said:

Slightly different question about scrimless blanks... I was under the impression that the scrim provided the strength and flexibility of the rod.  I need someone to school me on what scrim actually does as my present knowledge can't comprehend a rod without scrim.

 

oe

What he said,,,

edit to say I googled it :=)

[grub_man]

In my mind, this is the way it works.  I've never gotten a direct answer, but nothing to indicate that I'm terribly far off course.

 

Scrim is a material used to provide hoop strength to a rod blank.

 

In the simplest design, the material that a rod blank is made up of consists of a bunch of long skinny graphite strands laying side by side and coated with a thermoplastic resin that will harden when it is brought up to the proper temperature and cooled.  Without something to keep the fibers bundled together they will be easier to separate leading to failures down the road.

 

Scrim is used to keep those fibers bundled together, and serves as sort of a backing as the fabric is made.

 

A scrimless design is one that drops off that backing, most likely incorporating a layer of woven graphite fibers or layers of fibers oriented at different angles to the longitudinal axis of the blank.  As the layers are wound around the mandrel together, there are some fibers that then wrap around the longitudinal axis of the blank to help give the hoop strength that the blank needs to stay together.

 

 

 

 

[spoonplugger1]

Scrimless design has been around for some time, the Hydra Fishing site explains it pretty well, they've been scrimless for many years. No lateral layup is necessary now days, that also decreases blank modulus, they are trying to negate that with srimless construction.