braided line with Fluorocarbon leader

[Armtx77]

Im still trying to wrap my head around the whole FC/Mono leader thing with a braid backer. Im new to super lines in the past 12 months.

 

Aside from needing a line to sink or float for specific techniques. Why the need for a perceived advantage of the fish not being able to see the line, on a chartruese colored piece of plastic. With treble hooks and a split ring hanging off of it.

 

Who here uses or has used Big Game Mono? 14-17 lbs BG is like working with welding wire and what, millions of fish have been caught with it?

 

Now we have braids that are 6lbs diameter and 20lbs test and people are still buying into the "FC is invisible and Im going to tie a second knot, into a knot critical appilcation anyway". By the time you get into a braid, that would equal the diameter of 15lbs mono. You have a breaking point, that is greater than the vast majority of fresh water world records.

 

Again, I dont understand it, but there are many things I dont understand. Im not knocking anyone that is tieing up a leader. Clearly the guys who fish to pay the bills do it and that is often enoungh for others to justify it.

 

I run 8lbs NanoFil on everything aside from my worm/crawfish rig and it has 20lbs Sufix 832(6lbs mono dia) in bright yellow. So, Im clearly a little odd on the matter to start with.

[Darren.]

59 minutes ago, Mindspread said:

 Double Uni knot, the FG knot looks a little complicated but I will give it a try. I don't remember the name of the knot I'm using to tie the lure to the FC you guys may know the name, you put a loop through the eye of the hook or lure then pinch in your finger to make another loop wrap it three times then thread it back through the loop at your fingers pull everything tight and trim the  three ends. 

Not sure which knot you're referring to. Surgeon's knot?

 

Anyhow, as for the Double Uni, it's actually one of the 

easiest to tie, once you see how it goes, you'll see why.

 

The FG may be the smallest, but it's also the longest for

bass fishing. And, though some here have success, I 

could never get it to hold using 10 or 15# braid and 

leaders from 6-15# test.

 

I have one rod with micro guides, my SC Legend Tourney.

I normally use smaller diameter lines with it, and the 

uni-to-uni goes through just fine, so long as the tag ends

are tightly cropped. Just FWIW.

 

Meant to add that part of the issue people have with using

a leader, and being concerned it is the weak link, is the 

breaking strength. Those tests you see online are not, shall

I say, real world tests unless your drag is locked down.

 

Point being, a properly set drag will go a long ways toward

keeping that "weak link" attached. I can't remember the 

last time I broke at the leader knot. Honestly. The entire

system, from drag, to rod strength, to lines is important.

[fishwizzard]

I view braid as a necessary evil on spinning reels but really do not like to use it.  I am trying it on a few casting reels this year and so far I am not liking it at all.  I have been tying leaders and fishing it straight and neither way seems better then just straight fluoro or mono.  I am having the most success with the thickest stuff I am using, 55lb Suffix, and having the worst with the thinnest, 30lb J-Braid.  

[Mindspread]

19 hours ago, Darren. said:

Not sure which knot you're referring to. Surgeon's knot?

 

 

[Dangerfield]

This topic drives me bonkers, for the simple fact that I don't know which way to go.

 

Last year, I went straight braid and the 2 previous were braid to a metal leader. This year, on my cranking set up, 40lb braid to 12lb FC leader and now I'm thinking of going straight FC. My frog/pitch/swimbait rod was going to get 60lb braid to 20 FC leader for pitch/swimbait(jigs). Now I'm thinking, I'll move the 40lb braid to my frog set up and w/ 20lb FC leader (double uni or alberto knot for me, whichever is more cooperative that day.

 

[Team9nine]

6 hours ago, Mindspread said:

 

Klein's knot looks like a version of double line Pitzen to me...

[Todd2]

10 minutes ago, Dangerfield said:

This topic drives me bonkers, for the simple fact that I don't know which way to go.

 

Last year, I went straight braid 

 

 

 

Just curious, what did you not like about straight braid,  I'm trying that out now and its really growing on me more and more. 

 

[Dangerfield]

1 minute ago, Todd2 said:

 

 

Just curious, what did you not like about straight braid,  I'm trying that out now and its really growing on me more and more. 

 

It worked great in certain situations, and I think that's a big part of the convo. It has it's moments. Works really well with glide baits, swimbaits (hard) and most topwater like a WP or a spook style. I certainly can't go straight braid on my cranking rig or throwing ultra light lures. I'm on the fence, if I want to pitch/swimjig without a leader or not...yet.

[Mindspread]

I like the way straight braid casts, I think it comes out of a baitcaster a little smother, I don't really have an issue with light mono such as the good ole 10lb berkley  . But I have issues with some of the heavier mono and FC.  So I figure the FC leader would give me the best of both worlds.does it really offer and advantage as far as will I catch more fish with a leader or straight braid or straight mono or would it had made a difference on whether or not a particular fish would have struck or not. Who knows, I think the  more Important thing is to use what you have the most confidence in weather it has a real advantage or not. 

[NY_Jig]

I tie the FG knot and have good success with it. Not terribly complicated once you tie it a half dozen times or so. It does have a very small diameter when properly tied. On occasion I will tie a FC leader to main line braid when I want to use a rod that’s spooled up with good braid and don’t want to waste it.

 

I will agree that FC somehow got the reputation of having little to no stretch and being the preferred line for jigs and T-rigging for non braid applications. However, FC most certainly has a noticeable amount of stretch, not a ton mind you, but a noticeable amount, and may not be so different from mono. I have never fished mono over 12 lbs, but I would assume 17-20 lb mono has some beef to it and less stretch then say 6 lb mono. That being said, I’ll stick with FC, it is very translucent under water, and the sensitivity is nice.

[d-camarena]

3 years ago i started using braid plus a big game leader. Never looked back, i use this setup for everything. From ned rig to a 10 inch hudd. I tie a leader big enough to last a fishing day. The only reason i tie a leader is to be able to break off when i snag. Try breaking 80lb braid, the rod will bust in half way before the hook or braid gives

[jr231]

On 5/11/2018 at 7:40 AM, Dens228 said:

Last summer I used straight braid and had no problems catching fish.  Mostly 30 lb with 50 or 65 for my frogging.  I never had a line snap.

 

This year on a whim I started using 14 pound test flouro leader on my plastics and on my jig rods.  A couple weeks ago I was in my kayak and caught a monster that put of a great fight.  As it was nearing the boat the leader snapped right in the middle.  I took the leaders off all my rods and am back to straight braid. 

It's either your knot, or your line guides, or bad batch of floro... 

 

I've straightened out (not completely but bent it out enough to free me from a log and ruin the hook ) a 3/0 gamakatsu with cheap 10lb seaguar red label as a leader. 

[fishindad]

On 5/10/2018 at 10:47 PM, WRB said:

The fact is FC has weaker knot strength, less abrasion resistance and equal stretch to mono.

 

The fact is, this statement is an opinion. And it is always best to avoid generalizations with any statement. It is absolutely misleading to state that ALL monofilament lines have greater knot strength, more abrasion resistance, and equal stretch as ALL fluorocarbon lines. Purely opinion, to which everyone is entitled to.

 

Some FC lines are more abrasion resistant than mono and some less. Some stretch more than, equal to, and less than mono. As far as knot strength, the only 'fact' is that a properly tied knot is stronger than an improperly tied knot; braid, mono, or FC. Therefore, the more knots you have to tie between you and your lure, the greater chance for failure. 

 

Like others, I firmly believe that FC is more sensitive than mono for slack line presentations and nothing beats braid for tight line sensitivity. Each type of line has its strengths and weaknesses. JMHO.

[WRB]

2 hours ago, fishindad said:

The fact is, this statement is an opinion. And it is always best to avoid generalizations with any statement. It is absolutely misleading to state that ALL monofilament lines have greater knot strength, more abrasion resistance, and equal stretch as ALL fluorocarbon lines. Purely opinion, to which everyone is entitled to.

 

Some FC lines are more abrasion resistant than mono and some less. Some stretch more than, equal to, and less than mono. As far as knot strength, the only 'fact' is that a properly tied knot is stronger than an improperly tied knot; braid, mono, or FC. Therefore, the more knots you have to tie between you and your lure, the greater chance for failure. 

 

Like others, I firmly believe that FC is more sensitive than mono for slack line presentations and nothing beats braid for tight line sensitivity. Each type of line has its strengths and weaknesses. JMHO.

I have tested a lot line using diameter, not label pound test, as the equalizer and stand by what I wrote as a generalized statement of fact. You also need to factor in impact strength. Comparing anything performed poorly verses properly is misleading statement. Fortunately my career field gave me the use of very highend aerospace test equipment to control forces applied for personal use.

Until some organization sets up standardized test methods and procedures all line data is subjective. I believe line should rated by American Wire Gage using diameter and referencing break strength.

Then we have over 20 years on the water experience with FC line to factor in.

I have stated many times that fluorocarbon line is has less coeffient of drag going though water then either Nylon monofilament or braid of equal diameter, that is a fact and what most anglers feel as less stretch and better lure/bottom contact feedback.

Less belly in the line equals better feedback.

The clinch, Trilene and Palomar knots precede FC line for fresh water fishing applications. Can anyone name all the knots developed for FC line? Tell why so many knots were developed for FC if knot strength isn't the cause.

I still use FC line for a few presentations where feedback can outweigh knot failure.

Tom

PS, I plan on giving P-Line Tactical 6# and 12# a trail, similar dia's to both Sunline and Seaguar FC.

 

[Mike L]

As stated many times before, I've used Flouro (Sniper and Shooter) for years and can honestly say I can't remember having a knot (SDJ) fail solely based on the line. 

 

The line has broke because I was careless in checking for knicks and scrapes but that's my fault. 

 

 

 

Mike

 

[fishindad]

3 hours ago, WRB said:

I have tested a lot line using diameter, not label pound test, as the equalizer and stand by what I wrote as a generalized statement of fact. You also need to factor in impact strength. Comparing anything performed poorly verses properly is misleading statement. Fortunately my career field gave me the use of very highend aerospace test equipment to control forces applied for personal use.

Until some organization sets up standardized test methods and procedures all line data is subjective. I believe line should rated by American Wire Gage using diameter and referencing break strength.

Then we have over 20 years on the water experience with FC line to factor in.

I have stated many times that fluorocarbon line is has less coeffient of drag going though water then either Nylon monofilament or braid of equal diameter, that is a fact and what most anglers feel as less stretch and better lure/bottom contact feedback.

Less belly in the line equals better feedback.

The clinch, Trilene and Palomar knots precede FC line for fresh water fishing applications. Can anyone name all the knots developed for FC line? Tell why so many knots were developed for FC if knot strength isn't the cause.

I still use FC line for a few presentations where feedback can outweigh knot failure.

Tom

PS, I plan on giving P-Line Tactical 6# and 12# a trail, similar dia's to both Sunline and Seaguar FC.

 

Tom, I'm not totally disagreeing with your sentiments about FC lines. Like you, and many others here, I have lots of years of fishing experience with all 3 modern "types" of lines available to us. Could an angler get by with just monofilament line? You bet. The late Billy Westmoreland and Buck Perry (just to name two old timers) could fish the pants off anyone now using only mono (heck, those two only needing a single lure; hoss fly and spoonplug, respectively). But, and this is a big but, for all the headaches that come with FC lines, it does have significant, measureable qualities superior to mono or braid. One wouldn't use FC for topwater nor braid for cranking because they aren't the best choice for those respective presentations. Mono floats, FC not so much. Braid has little stretch, mono is like a rubber band, comparatively. As Mike L. alludes to, almost all the issues people (myself included) have with FC knots breaking or backlashes causing nicks and kinks - these are due to operator error, not the line itself. FC requires MUCH more care and accuracy when knot tying and casting. If one is a low maintenance person and rarely wants to retie, backlashes often, etc, then FC is not for you. A lot of the posts about FC vs mono are from novice or rookie anglers who have only used mono and think they can treat FC like mono. You can't, it's apples to oranges. But if you want to "up your game" and take advantage of all the qualities each type of line has to offer, one needs to put in the time on the water and learn "the hard way" by not treating all line the same as mono. Try convincing saltwater flats guys casting flies to bonefish and permit that FC leaders/tippets aren't getting them more fish, lol. A Mart was one of the first guys to introduce FC to the BASS Elite guys and look how that caught fire. You can bet the learning curve was the same for guys used to using mono all their careers but how many now fish with FC?? A Mart has years of on the water experience with FC so he was ahead of the game.

 

Sorry, long post but bottom line is we each eventually figure out if it is "worth it" to fish FC (or braid). IMO, if one is willing to put in the time to learn, and pay attention to details, then FC can definitely help anglers put more fish in the boat. If it's too much hassle or cost, no harm no foul.

[Todd2]

33 minutes ago, fishindad said:

for all the headaches that come with FC lines, it does have significant, measureable qualities superior to mono or braid. 

Measurable or perceived...most of the fluorocarbon advantages we use to read about have been busted. Braid beats Fluoro in low stretch, sensitivity, abrasion, knot strength. Fluoro wins the visibility and quiet awards if those are important to you.

 

My debate has been braid vs mono for a while, but that's my take on it..all 3 will catch fish.

 

 

 

 

[WRB]

I target bass that outweigh the line test being used for decades with mono line without ever breaking off a bass due to knot failure. If you look at my top 5 bass they were all caught using 10 lb mono (Big Game or XT) on long casts over 90' away from the boat. I can't say I never broke off a DD bass using FC line because I more times then putting in the boat using 10 to 12 lb FC. It's not my knot tieing or handling, it's the FC line. These big bass are very strong and must be kept under control or they get into things that end badly. 

Tom