Daiwa alpha handle exchange

[45user]

I think it’s been discussed here before but just. A quick question,

i want to change out handle of my Daiwa alpha to a longer one, does zillion 100mm handle works? 

I know tatula 90mm works but not sure if zillion handle work with alpha?

thank you for your help in advance!

Brian 

[Angry John]

Those poor aluminum gears.

[45user]

2 hours ago, BaitFinesse said:

Yes it works.

Thank you!

2 hours ago, Angry John said:

Those poor aluminum gears.

Thank you! Can you please explain about the gear? Is the longer handle bad for the gearing?

Brian 

[rippin-lips]

All Daiwa handles are interchangeable. Some Daiwa reels use a straight star drag and handle combo. In that case you have to swap out to a swept star drag to accommodate a swept handle. If it already has a swept star than you can use either style handle. 100mm for me is a bit long for a smaller finesse oriented reel but everyone has their own preference. As for the longer handle and gears part goes... a longer handle will allow you to turn the handle with less effort under load as say an 80mm handle would. You gain only leverage from a longer handle. People sometimes say it creates more torque and thus would be increasing the load on the gears, though that is not true. 

[Angry John]

I disagree.  The lever arm becomes longer you can apply more force.  There are a lot of dumb things like changing the ratio and that's garbage but the would not sell longer power handles if it did nothing.

[45user]

It’s the alphas 105 sv that I have 

I prefer to have a bit longer handle than current 80mm so I should be good with 90mm 

I just wanted to see if there’s more handle options as I see more handles in tackle trap website that looks like it will fit 

Brian 

[rippin-lips]

1 hour ago, 45user said:

It’s the alphas 105 sv that I have 

I prefer to have a bit longer handle than current 80mm so I should be good with 90mm 

I just wanted to see if there’s more handle options as I see more handles in tackle trap website that looks like it will fit 

Brian 

90-95-100 will all be fine. Any swept Daiwa handle will fit the alphas sv. Stock or aftermarket, take your pick. 

3 hours ago, Angry John said:

I disagree.  The lever arm becomes longer you can apply more force.  There are a lot of dumb things like changing the ratio and that's garbage but the would not sell longer power handles if it did nothing.

Power handles ‘longer handles’ allow you to gain leverage, which makes it easier to turn under load. It doesn’t however create more torque in turn putting more strain on the gears. So it doesn’t do nothing. You’re totally correct there. Don’t look at it like using a longer wrench ‘lever arm’ to break a bolt loose. Look a it more like using a screwdriver. 

 

*Edit - maybe this can help.

Having a longer handle gives you increased leverage which allows you to apply the same amount of torque to the spool with less effort. A longer handle simply allows the user to put the same amount of torque into  cranking the reel with the same or less exertion than you have to use with a short handle. It does that by gaining more leverage which can make it a lot easier to turn against a load. A fishing reel is different than a wrench, the torque you apply to the handle is not applied directly to the spool like it would be on a bolt. In a fishing reel it then goes through a gear reduction. The drive shaft gear having in this example 5 times a many teeth and the pinion gear which is splined to the spool.  This creates a mechanical advantage of 5.0:1 to apply to the spool.  The other factor with fishing reels is that they are not hard splined to the drive gear. There is where your drag comes into play, they will only allow a certain amount of torque to ever be applied. After that, it makes no difference if you drive it with a 10 foot handle or 80mm handle. You can only apply a set amount of torque before it overcomes the drags ability to prevent it from slipping.  So while a longer handle gives you more leverage and allows you to more easily apply the torque to the gears, the spool is turned as the result of a mechanical advantage of the reels gearing. That is why people prefer a 5.1:1 reel over a 7.1:1 reel for lures that create high drag.

[45user]

14 minutes ago, rippin-lips said:

90-95-100 will all be fine. Any swept Daiwa handle will fit the alphas sv. Stock or aftermarket, take your pick. 

Power handles ‘longer handles’ allow you to gain leverage, which makes it easier to turn under load. It doesn’t however create more torque in turn putting more strain on the gears. So it doesn’t do nothing. You’re totally correct there. Don’t look at it like using a longer wrench ‘lever arm’ to break a bolt loose. Look a it more like using a screwdriver. 

Thank you! 

[Angry John]

11 hours ago, rippin-lips said:

90-95-100 will all be fine. Any swept Daiwa handle will fit the alphas sv. Stock or aftermarket, take your pick. 

Power handles ‘longer handles’ allow you to gain leverage, which makes it easier to turn under load. It doesn’t however create more torque in turn putting more strain on the gears. So it doesn’t do nothing. You’re totally correct there. Don’t look at it like using a longer wrench ‘lever arm’ to break a bolt loose. Look a it more like using a screwdriver. 

 

*Edit - maybe this can help.

Having a longer handle gives you increased leverage which allows you to apply the same amount of torque to the spool with less effort. A longer handle simply allows the user to put the same amount of torque into  cranking the reel with the same or less exertion than you have to use with a short handle. It does that by gaining more leverage which can make it a lot easier to turn against a load. A fishing reel is different than a wrench, the torque you apply to the handle is not applied directly to the spool like it would be on a bolt. In a fishing reel it then goes through a gear reduction. The drive shaft gear having in this example 5 times a many teeth and the pinion gear which is splined to the spool.  This creates a mechanical advantage of 5.0:1 to apply to the spool.  The other factor with fishing reels is that they are not hard splined to the drive gear. There is where your drag comes into play, they will only allow a certain amount of torque to ever be applied. After that, it makes no difference if you drive it with a 10 foot handle or 80mm handle. You can only apply a set amount of torque before it overcomes the drags ability to prevent it from slipping.  So while a longer handle gives you more leverage and allows you to more easily apply the torque to the gears, the spool is turned as the result of a mechanical advantage of the reels gearing. That is why people prefer a 5.1:1 reel over a 7.1:1 reel for lures that create high drag.

I agree that the drag is a major limiting factor for the max applied force to the gears.  If a longer handle is installed the reel may be used on applications normally used for larger reels.  In that case it would experience more wear on all internal parts, and just turns it into the wrong reel for the job.  It will then most likely have failures sooner and more often resulting in the user saying the reel is not good, when it's the users change causing the problem.

[JustJames]

@Angry John, I have steez ex100 where it is aluminum main gear with 100mm handle and I have yet to see any affect on main gear. This is top water reel, spinnerbait chatterbait reel. I was gonna use this for medium size swimbait but afraid the durable of aluminum gear. Also Alpha SV105SH has brass gear.

 

BTW I don't like long handle, it is kind of get in my way sometimes, I'm used to with 84mm handle from Shimano and don't mind at all on 80mm handle on Alpha SV105SH.

[Angry John]

The brass gears are as heavy duty as they come.  My alphas have aluminum gears but to assume yours did I guess was foolish on my part.  The width and size of the gear has a lot to do along with material how well it will hold up to heavy use.  Heavy duty reels normally run brass.  A zillion may be more whathan your looking for if you plan to use swim baits under 3 oz.  

[Stephen B]

I know a lot of new high end reels such as the Metanium MGL comes with the duraluminum gears, but curious to the benefits they provide over brass other than weight. I have heard that some people don't recommend the duraluminum gears in current or baits such as DD crankbaits and big spinnerbaits as it can be harsh on the aluminum gears. Is there any truth to that?

[BigBassCity]

5 hours ago, BaitFinesse said:

My problem with aluminum gears is that the reels with them often get geary feeling over time. The hardness of the aluminum and the poor adhesion of grease to the aluminum gearing are contributing factors.  The Met MGL in particular is notorious for developing Metnium Buzz and is fixed with a Curado K gear set.

 

There are durability concerns but I would think fresh water bass fishing duty wouldn't do anything harsh enough to destroy the aluminum gears but I could be wrong.

That is interesting. My buddy does some reel maintenance in his free time and said that he has seen guys destory a gear set in a Metanium MGL in around a year by throwing big spinnerbaits/crankbaits in current.

 

So its recommended to throw crankbaits, big spinnerbaits, etc on brass gears vs aluminum?

[Stephen B]

I am interested to hear the opinions of some guys that have more knowledge than me regarding reel maintenance. I was always under the impression brass gears are more durable which is why most big bait reels are brass gears. I like brass for moving baits and aluminum for bottom contact.

[WRB]

Brass is a self lubrication metal, aluminum alloys are not. Aluminum gears should be hard coated to increase the surface hardness and must have a lubricant that could be a dry lub, Teflon or grease. The only reason to use aluminum gears is weght saving.

Excesive clearence caused by poor machining or wear and frame movement causes gear noise and eventual failure.

You can over power the reel frame, side plates, bushings and bearings by using too much force, there is a limit to increasing handle size.

Tom

 

[78Staff]

On 5/11/2018 at 12:49 AM, 45user said:

It’s the alphas 105 sv that I have 

I prefer to have a bit longer handle than current 80mm so I should be good with 90mm 

I just wanted to see if there’s more handle options as I see more handles in tackle trap website that looks like it will fit 

Brian 

 

I put Steez 90mm (Steez 100 model) handles from TT on both my SV105's... you could also go with the Tatula or Zillion handle for a bit less as well.  I just prefer the Steez size knobs over the tat/paddle style plus it has 4bb already