Understanding Prices of Rods

[Lasher]

As I am shopping to upgrade a few of my setup's, I have become overwhelmed by the amount of companies and styles of rods.  I would like to learn how prices are determined and why they can vary so much even within the same length, power, and action   The most obvious is the material used to make the rod; graphite, glass, composite, etc. along with the companies branding and recognition in the industry.  Can someone help me understand how prices are set?  

[Tywithay]

You pretty much hit on it already. Quality of materials and quality of craftsmanship (made in usa vs. made in china). Components also vary in cost. Titanium framed SiC guides cost far more than stainless steel with aluminun oxide inserts. 

[tstraub]

Warranty is also a pretty big factor in the high end stuff.  Your not only buying a rod your buying an insurance policy of sorts.  They have to charge enough up front so they can afford to repair or replace it when you break it.

[LCG]

2 hours ago, Tywithay said:

made in usa vs. made in china

This is a big factor is quality and price. 

[grub_man]

1. The size of the company's marketing budget.

2. Brand recognition.

3. Warranty policies.

4. Size of the company/required profit margin.

5. Country of origin.

6. Blank material (graphite fibers are manufactured for the aerospace industry, fishing rods is a minuscule niche market).

7. Component selection.

 

The fact of the matter is that the carbon fiber industry is an aerospace industry, and fishing rods are just a niche market for the material.  Some companies make better quality materials than others, use higher quality resins in the prepreg material, and different scrim materials.  What sets apart one blank from another is how the blank designer decides to use the material (multi-modulus designs, how the fabrics are cut, QC, etc.).

[Lasher]

12 hours ago, Luke G. said:

15 hours ago, Tywithay said:

made in usa vs. made in china

This is a big factor in quality and price. 

 

To elaborate, does china make it cheaper and less quality?  

[J Francho]

37 minutes ago, Lasher said:

 

To elaborate, does china make it cheaper and less quality?  

You can't make any generalizations.  There's good stuff out there, and not so good stuff.  There are several recognized brand names on this board that are well supported by our members.  Pretty easy to figure out the trends.  What's your price range?

[Lasher]

My price range is roughly $200 for a good baitcasting combo, but I am really just wanting to understand the formula for what makes one rod $150 more than a very similar rod.  Previous posts helped give some insight with warranty and materials, country of origin, brand recognition, etc.  Can an All Star or shakespeare rod do the same thing as Loomis or St. Croix rod?  I would think you could break and purchase a new All Star cheaper than purchasing a Loomis.

[J Francho]

15 minutes ago, Lasher said:

Can an All Star or shakespeare rod do the same thing as Loomis or St. Croix rod?

Short answer, no.  Components would be another aspect that contributes to price. 

 

Take a look at Okuma EVX.  They run $100 - $125.  I've been testing them out since last summer, and I'm really pleased.  There's heavy competition at that price point, and that's a good thing from a buyer's perspective.  I own several G.Loomis and St.Croix rods, ranging from $120 - $350.  At the same price point, you're getting a lighter, crisper rod from the Okuma.

[Chris at Tech]

It's the same reason that BMWs are more expensive than Fords.

[NYWayfarer]

1 hour ago, Chris at Tech said:

It's the same reason that BMWs are more expensive than Fords.

Both get you from point A to point B. One does it in style.

 

[J Francho]

I don't get the car comparison anymore.  It's not a point A to point B thing.  More expensive tackle is incrementally better, to a point.  That point is a tiny bit north of the OP's budget.  After that, then it's more about style and luxury.

[TOXIC]

One thing often overlooked is the skill of the rodmaker.  Few mass produced take the time to properly spline the blank before building the components.  Also used to be the quality of things like cork, eva or Wynn grips.  In my personal opinion, once a rod breaks a certain price point ($150-200) you then start paying for warranty and name recognition.  Some of the Japanese rods are the most expensive on the market.  

[greentrout]

My mileage...never spent 100 dollars on a rod...money no issue...do lots of worm fishing sometimes use tungsten weights and feel it good...knowing where the fish are...far more important...

[Chris at Tech]

45 minutes ago, NYWayfarer said:

Both get you from point A to point B. One does it in style.

 

The style, the parts, the craftsmanship, the "experience", the quality...  To me, same thing with rods.

[greentrout]

Sold cars many years ago...the Ford lincoln Town Car took a backseat to no other...

[NYWayfarer]

40 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I don't get the car comparison anymore.  It's not a point A to point B thing.  More expensive tackle is incrementally better, to a point.  That point is a tiny bit north of the OP's budget.  After that, then it's more about style and luxury.

The comparison I am making is you can catch fish with a cheap rod. A cheap car will get you to your destination.

 

You can catch fish with an expensive rod. An expensive car will get you to your destination.

 

The end result is the same, however you will feel the difference in the end as the more expensive options are better quality.

[LCG]

2 hours ago, Lasher said:

Can an All Star or shakespeare rod do the same thing as Loomis or St. Croix rod? 

They can all catch fish. St Croix and Loomis will offer more refinements which results in more sensitivity, which usually results in more fish. There are lots of good rods in the $100-$150 range. I love my Fenwick HMG, caught many fish with it. I have a used shimano compre that is decent,  it catches me fish. My preference is to use my st Croix rods though. I also take care of my gear. It's a hobby that I enjoy so I spend some money on it. 

[J Francho]

1 hour ago, NYWayfarer said:

The comparison I am making is you can catch fish with a cheap rod. A cheap car will get you to your destination.

I will argue that you might miss/lose more fish with a cheaper rod.  If the destination is catching a fish, then the analogy fails.

[LionHeart]

I'd say manufacturers have it figured out by now that fisherman fall into a few categories of what they are willing to spend on a fishing rod.  

 

-Cheap as possible/ rod has cool colors and stuff

-Sub $100 but want a rod that is fishable and will last a while

-Roughly $100 range (I'd say the most competitive, therefore most bang for your buck by far)  Manufacturers know that $100 is a pretty common budget set on a fishing rod, so they are forced to make the most competitive product possible while still turning a profit. 

-$200ish range (guys/gals that want a slightly higher quality, often at a disproportionately higher price)

-Anything above $250ish (For guys/gals that don't mind paying large amounts of $ for even slight increases in quality)

 

Like any other hobby, I feel that the price of your gear is determined in part by how serious the hobby/ addiction is.  Will I ever in my life spend $500 on a fishing pole?  Never, but I think I understand why some do.  

 

To be fair, the mark up on fishing gear is absurd regardless of which category it falls into, but I feel safe saying a $60 rod costs closer to $60 to make than a $500 rod comes to costing $500 to make.  To enthusiasts, that is understood, and not terribly relevant.

[bitsandbass]

I think you have to measure the value of the rod/reel in terms of how it FEELS to YOU.  Like someone said above.  Its like a luxury car vs a cheap car.  Both get you from A to B, but the luxury car FEELS better to drive.

 

The thing is, the way rods/reels FEEL are subjective.  You have to try them out and decide for yourself, which is really frustrating because you dont want to waste $ hunting for the right setup, or hassling with returns & unspooling reels is a total pain.

 

Again, it comes down to how it FEELS for you.  I love my $15 GX2 rod for the price.  I also love my $300 St Croix surf rod.  You got to figure out what works for you.

 

You may find a $30 rod actually feels better than a $150 rod, if you can hit that balance of reel weight, line rating, and lure weight etc.  Trust me, you know it when you FEEL it.  You just got to find it.   

 

Personally, paying $200+ for recreational freshwater bass rod to me is completely insane.  I dont value the supposed FEEL at that price point.  It's gets stupid and companies stand ready to milk hard earned $ from folks that are prepared to pay those nonsense prices wanting the fake news top end gear.

 

Let me know what rod you settle on?  I'm looking for the best bang for your buck $50 bass rod at the moment.  Tried the MH 6'6 Ugly Stik Elite in store.  Felt like a broomstick.  Did not like it.  Still need to find the M or UL version and try it out. 

 

 

[blckshirt98]

Tough to come up with a definitive answer.

 

Custom rodmakers will let you pick out a blank and components where you can find the prices of everything out of a catalog.  From there you can get a rough estimate of labor costs the rodmaker is charging on top of materials. 

 

With the big companies it's more difficult because it's hard to determine what kind of blank they're using.  Some make their own blanks in-house, others are just buying them in bulk from a manufacturer, whether from China or the USA, affixing catalog components on it, sticking some labels on them, and marking them up.  You'll never be able to find out what it's costing them to make their blanks, and unless they specifically say where they're sourcing their blanks from, it's anybody's guess (they could be buying them by the thousands from some no-name alibaba.com manufacturer).

 

You basically need to find a rod/brand you like to fish with and trust they're giving you good value.  My favorite rod company is Phenix and their blanks are made in China.   I have no idea how much they're marking them up, but to me that's irrelevant.  I like the weights/actions/components on them, I have yet to have one fail on me, I like fishing with them, and I have yet to find a Phenix model that has disappointed me.  Whether they're marking them up 10% or 200%, I'll still buy them and use them, because those are the rods that give me confidence on the water.  (It's also a vote of confidence when Ben from Low Down Customs uses their hybrid blanks for his swimbait rods).

[Basseditor]

This is a fun topic. 

 

Trust, confidence and quality is why I buy high end rods. 

 

Then I’m interested in the various components and actions. Some companies don’t have the actions I like.

 

I switched to all Kistler Rods because I feel confident. But the prices range from $100 to $700 plus. I just got 3 more ZBones last week, so now I have 71 Kistlers. I have duplicates in the most used actions. I can rig up 3 identical rods/reels for the techniques for the day and know I’ll get the same feel for each cast.

[MickD]

I don't think I have seen any mention of cork quality-if you want really good quality cork, you will pay a premium.  One of the reasons so many rods are using EVA now is the cost of good cork.  Also not mentioned, if I'm not mistaken, is that for blank durability, the expensive rods are usually more fragile than the cheaper rods due to the high mod graphite  (lighter, more sensitive) being used on them.  Exceptions are the expensive rods using nano particles in the graphite.  This is reported to make the rods tougher without going heavier, but it is offered only on the really high price rods.  You won't see that in your price range.

 

One achilles heel in cheaper rods is that sometimes the manufacturers use materials like boxboard for shimming reel seasts, and often skimp on epoxy making seat to rod failures more likely.  This is one area that most custom rod builders far exceed the quality of even some of the best names in the industry.  But I expect that the more expensive rods will be better than the cheaper ones for this characteristic.

 

If you plan on carrying your rods in the boat on the way to the lake, or in the back of the pickup, or banging it onto the edge of the boat, don't waste your money on an expensive rod.  It could be more fragile than the cheaper one.

[bigfruits]

i think $100 rods are the best value. maybe a bit less for moving bait rods and a bit more for bottom contact rods.

 

choose a good brand and choose a light weight and well balanced stick.

 

over the years as your quiver gets larger you may end up swapping some rods out for more expensive "less value" rods. once that happens you can never go back!