Tying Wire Leader to Braid/Lures

[finatic]

Last summer I lost a lot of lures to the pike that were invading my favorite bass hole. This year I don't want a repeat of that, so I'm seeking some advice. I'm looking at making my own wire leaders with some Surflon Micro Supreme, but I haven't found any videos or how-tos on how to tie this stuff to my braid and lures. I was wondering if anyone here had any links or advice on doing this?

 

Thanks

[J Francho]

There's a few good tie-able coated leaders out there that work with a standard knots we all use.  I use Cortland Toothy Critter in 20# size.  You can usually find in the fly fishing area.

[Scott F]

Tie one end of your leader to a split ring, and the other to a snap (not a snap swivel). Practice tying. That tieable wire leader is very easy to kink. It turns into pigtails if you aren't careful.

[A-Jay]

 Bass fishing up this way, there's plenty of toothy fish; So I use this product quite a bit - 

I tie directly to the mainline (both fluorocarbon & Braid) - double uni-knot.  No Swivel or ring.

Occasionally I'll add a small clip to the leader end to facilitate quick bait changes but most of the time I tie direct to the bait.

A-Jay

[finatic]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm going to get some of that AFW in camo and tie up some of my rigs. You gave me some options and I have to try out which ones work best.

 

Havent tied a double uni but Im sure theres how tos somewhere.

 

Thanks again

[A-Jay]

4 minutes ago, hawgwash said:

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm going to get some of that AFW in camo and tie up some of my rigs. You gave me some options and I have to try out which ones work best.

 

Havent tied a double uni but Im sure theres how tos somewhere.

 

Thanks again

There's a knot diagram in the AWF package on which knots to use & how to tie them.

A-Jay

[Tywithay]

Look on the google for crimping sleeves. You just pass the leader through the sleeve, then the bait, and back into the sleeve; then crimp it tight with pliers. They make special pliers as well, though normal ones do okay. A lot of saltwater guys use heavier versions for the really thick wire leaders.

[finatic]

4 hours ago, Tywithay said:

Look on the google for crimping sleeves. You just pass the leader through the sleeve, then the bait, and back into the sleeve; then crimp it tight with pliers. They make special pliers as well, though normal ones do okay. A lot of saltwater guys use heavier versions for the really thick wire leaders.

Can you recommend some crimps and a good set of pliers?

[Further North]

Like A-Jay, I live this, every time I go out.

 

I use the AFW Surflon, but like Tyger Leader better. 
 

I use the FG knot as a first preference, with the Alberto a 2^nd choice.  The FG is the smallest knot for getting through the guides, the Alberto is close (one more line thickness).

 

Depending on what the rig is for, I may tie in a snap, or a swivel snap at the terminal end, never at the line/leader connection.

 

Knot-2-Kinky is great, but as slippery, single strand wire, can be a pain to get tied to your main line.  I use this almost exclusively on a rod I have set up for #5 Mepps and I've only found the Alberto knot to work well here.  The terminal end gets a 80# swivel and snap with a perfection loop.  I wear gloves and use a screwdriver hank or something else round though the loop when I tighten this bad boy up...but you can run it through a blender and it'll be fine...*

 

Happy to shoot you pictures of the leaders if that'll help.

 

*slight exaggeration here, but I caught bunches of pike and muskies last year on that rig, and only had to re-tie it once when my braid main-line got a little beat up.

8 hours ago, J Francho said:

There's a few good tie-able coated leaders out there that work with a standard knots we all use.  I use Cortland Toothy Critter in 20# size.  You can usually find in the fly fishing area.

Great leader material.

[Further North]

I'm gonna wander a ways off the reservation here...where I really learned about line to wire leader set-up was with my 8 wt. and up fly rigs that I use for pike and musky.

 

My favorite set up here, is 50# Maxima Big Game Mono to an 18" or so hunk of 30# Tyger Leader, to a heavy duty snap (you don't want to be cutting wire every time you change flies, you'll go broke in a hurry).

 

Here's a source for the Maxima, it's not easy to find: https://www.lundsflyshop.com/MAXIMA_BIG_GAME_LEADER_p/2458.htm

 

I tie that rig together with an Alberto knot, because I'm not worried bout getting it though the guides.

 

My 2nd favorite leader material is Seguar STS Flourocarbon in 50#, 40# or 30#, to the same Tyger leader, but if I'm using 30# STS I'll drop to 15# wire.

 

A really cool is hand tied leader is all STS, tied with 18" to 2 ft. sections, backwards: 30# to 40# to 50#, to flip resistant flies over...I save tohis for really reluctant flies, and I check the rig really closely after every fish.

[finatic]

North, thanks for the great info. I'm going to get some AFW Surflon Micro Supreme (5 meter, 20lb, camo). Sitting here with a cup of coffee watching knot tying videos (Alberto, FG, Uni, etc.). I'll have to find some decent snaps to use. I have a few but they are a pain to get open. I do have some small #10 swivel snaps, but they may be too small for fighting toothy critters. 

 

So if I want to use crimp sleeves and I'm using the 20-pound surflon wire leader what size crimp sleeve should I get? I'm looking at the afw crimp sleeves on Amazon and are in various inches, like 0.116, 0.096, etc.

[jimmyjoe]

    Just saw this. Been there, done that. My advice: DO NOT draw any leader knot in through your tiptop or guides. I did, and I replaced Alconite rings. So I was smart; I used stainless steel inserts. Hah! Yeah, right. It dings and scratches over time, and then you wonder why the heck your line breaks so often. Solution? Keep all metal leader connector knots OUTSIDE your tiptop. All you need is 8 inches, anyway.  I know, casting is clumsier. That's the price you gotta pay. But you save money by using cheap, commonly-available premade leaders, like South Bend and Eagle Claw. You don't need strength, you need TOUGHNESS.

   Then again, this is me, and you're you. You paid money for this advice ..... right?    jj

[finatic]

1 hour ago, jimmyjoe said:

    Just saw this. Been there, done that. All you need is 8 inches, anyway.  I know, casting is clumsier. That's the price you gotta pay. But you save money by using cheap, commonly-available premade leaders, like South Bend and Eagle Claw. You don't need strength, you need TOUGHNESS.

   Then again, this is me, and you're you. You paid money for this advice ..... right?    jj

Common sense is always good advice thanks JJ

[Further North]

3 hours ago, jimmyjoe said:

    Just saw this. Been there, done that. My advice: DO NOT draw any leader knot in through your tiptop or guides. I did, and I replaced Alconite rings. So I was smart; I used stainless steel inserts. Hah! Yeah, right. It dings and scratches over time, and then you wonder why the heck your line breaks so often. Solution? Keep all metal leader connector knots OUTSIDE your tiptop. All you need is 8 inches, anyway.  I know, casting is clumsier. That's the price you gotta pay. But you save money by using cheap, commonly-available premade leaders, like South Bend and Eagle Claw. You don't need strength, you need TOUGHNESS.

   Then again, this is me, and you're you. You paid money for this advice ..... right?    jj

I run my leader knots through my guides all the time, have for years, no problems. 

 

My wire leaders are about a foot and a half long, no way I'm casting with that much line outside my rod rip, and my copoly leaders on my BFS and ML spinning rods are one rod length...it'd be unsafe to cast with that much line outside the rod tip.

 

The FG knot, with small diameter line, makes it a non-issue.

[finatic]

So if I get the AFW Surflon, will it be easy to tie this wire leader to my Power Pro braid? I'm just thinking about everything you guys said about low profile knots being able to go through the guides. It just seems to me that being a coated wire leader it would make a knot more bulky than just using plain fluorocarbon leader.

[A-Jay]

54 minutes ago, hawgwash said:

So if I get the AFW Surflon, will it be easy to tie this wire leader to my Power Pro braid? I'm just thinking about everything you guys said about low profile knots being able to go through the guides. It just seems to me that being a coated wire leader it would make a knot more bulky than just using plain fluorocarbon leader.

There's virtually ZERO need to use a wire leader so long that it's getting any where near a rod's guide train.

Unless you're targeting huge pike of muskie - where the length of the fish's mouth / gullet can be very long, 

a 12 inch trace is wire is totally sufficient for bass presentations.

This is easily left hanging below the first guide and then cast effectively without any problem. 

A-Jay

[finatic]

13 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

There's virtually ZERO need to use a wire leader so long that it's getting any where near a rod's guide train.

Unless you're targeting huge pike of muskie - where the length of the fish's mouth / gullet can be very long, 

a 12 inch trace is wire is totally sufficient for bass presentations.

This is easily left hanging below the first guide and then cast effectively without any problem. 

A-Jay

Thanks for the reply, AJ. So regardless of the bulkiness of the knot (tying the wire to braid) it wouldn't be an issue because I would just use a certain length that doesn't need to be pulled through the first guide. Will 12" be sufficient for both bass and pike? I ask because the spot I usually fish for bass gets invaded by monster pike towards the end of summer.

 

 

[A-Jay]

Just now, hawgwash said:

Thanks for the reply, AJ. So regardless of the bulkiness of the knot (tying the wire to braid) it wouldn't be an issue because I would just use a certain length that doesn't need to be pulled through the first guide. Will 12" be sufficient for both bass and pike? I ask because the spot I usually fish for bass gets invaded by monster pike towards the end of summer.

Sure thing ~ 

And while I'd like to be able to assure you that you'll never lose a fish or a bait -  I think we both know that's unrealistic.

What I will say is that using 12 to say 14 inches of leader length while bass fishing, has worked for me considerable better than not using it.   

A-Jay

[finatic]

5 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Sure thing ~ 

And while I'd like to be able to assure you that you'll never lose a fish or a bait -  I think we both know that's unrealistic.

What I will say is that using 12 to say 14 inches of leader length while bass fishing, has worked for me considerable better than not using it.   

A-Jay

 

Wow, those are some brutes! Where do you fish?

[A-Jay]

1 minute ago, hawgwash said:

 

Wow, those are some brutes! Where do you fish?

Northern Lower Michigan -

Most all decent size inland lakes north of Rt 72.

There's a lot of fertile water here.

 

A-Jay

[finatic]

This is the largest pike I've caught (about 40"). Got him while I was trying for walleye in the Muskegon channel last year.

 

[finatic]

Change of plan. I found mention of a pre-fashioned leader made by Canadian tackle whiz Bernard Yong-Set. Guy in the article claims they are the best so I decided to try these (since they're already rigged up). Save me the hassle of doing it myself. 

[Further North]

I start my tied in leaders long for a couple of reasons, one being that there are a fair amount of those 40" plus critters in our water. 

 

The other is that If I manage to beat up the terminal end a bit...or Ethel Esox does it for me, I can cut the leader back a couple few inches, tie the terminal clip/swivel back on and be ready to go without having to tie in the whole thing. This is another one of those things I learned from fly fishing...way easier to cut a tippet back than tie in a new one, and since overall length is unimportant with gear, it works even better.

 

This is just me, but I dislike having a foot of leader hanging from the end of my rod when I cast...when I'm throwing a 7' 9" rod, by the time I've Ive allowed a couple inches of line, a foot long leader and a 7" bait, I've increased the swing radius an easy 20" and there are times when that's going to be closer to the back of the boat than I like.  Most people have no issue with this, it's just something that I dislike to do...and I don't like how it casts, either...I can't describe why, just don't care for it.

 

One thing about commercially tied leaders: You're going to have hardware at the line end...typically a ring and a swivel...and for me, that means that sooner or later, I'm going to run that into my rod tip guide....this is one of the reasons why I like to tie them in and put all the hardware on the business end.  I find that it's easy to see the lure approaching the tip of the rod, even when I've got it in the water...sometimes I miss the top end of the leader (I find dark colors the worst) and...crash...

[finatic]

You guys have certainly given me enough great advice so now I just have to decide what I'm going to get (thanks!). Also read some articles pertaining to stainless steel (AFW) versus titanium (Terminator). Guess the only way to know is to get some and try the stuff out. Got a day off tomorrow so I'm going to head out and see what I can find.

[J Francho]

Titanium weakens with no sign of fatigue, then snaps.  Steel, it's easy to see when it's close to failure.