Knot questions

[Sharkicane]

Hey all, 

 

So I am curious and would like to get some reasoning behind different knots and there applications. Just starting out in bass fishing its kind of intimidating there are hundreds of different knots to tie, different ones for different lines, or lures, or techniques. Now I understand some techniques require certain knots in order to get the presentation right( i.e. a certain knot on a drop shot rig so that the hook sits straight out. ). It seems every video I watch I hear palomar is the knot that everyone ties on 90% of things. I get that to a certain extent that is personal preference. 

 

I would really like to know the logic behind certain knots logic that goes  beyond just the strength of the knot. Why should someone be tying certain knots or not tying them across different applications.

 

Why is the palomar knot so heavily utilized?

 

I just learned the double improved clinch knot, is there a reason that knot cant be used on all lines for all basic applications?

 

I heard loop knots on braid is a bad idea, why?

 

Loop knots in general, give certain baits more freedom when working them, is that just a personal preference or are those lures designed to be used with a loop knot? 

 

What about the uni knot? why is the palomar mentioned so much more than the uni? 

 

I know my questions are all over the place. However I am really just trying to get a better understanding of certain knots as I imagine certain knots might change the look of the lure presentation.

[Choporoz]

I am afraid that the variety of responses you are about to get isn't going to simplify things for you very much....lots of different preferences out there.

 

For me, I've simplified a bit in recent years:

 

Leader knots: Alberto - size and strength works for me and I can tie it fairly confidently, even on the water

 

Loop: haven't used a loop knot much lately, but never had a problem with braid -- not sure what the issue might be

 

Lure:

-Palomar for braid and for drop shot (easy, confident in strength and lack of slippage.)

-San Diego Jam for all others.  Used improved clinch for years without an issue until I was using some really fine line a couple years ago (may have been 4#...prob 6) and had a lot of trouble with slipping and breaking.  Tried SDJ and found it easy and reliable

 

I think you'll find that most any recognized/named knot will work for bass fishing.  Most important is finding knots that you will tie correctly.  Winningest Knot Wars knot is useless if I screw up tying it...or if it takes me from fishing for 20 minutes.

 

[Mike L]

The thinking is the Palomar should be used for braid because of the slickness of it. It's supposed to hold better than all others but that's not necessarily true. 

 

All the others you mentioned, and many more are personal choice. 

Personnaly I use just 3. 

Palomar for braid unless I'm punching mat's or in heavy cover, then I snell. 

For Flouro (which is the only other line I use) I like the SDJ. 

 

Just keep in mind No knot is good enough unless it's tied right. 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[Darren.]

1 hour ago, Sharkicane said:

I would really like to know the logic behind certain knots logic that goes  beyond just the strength of the knot. Why should someone be tying certain knots or not tying them across different applications.

For me, the logic behind using a palomar and/or

uni knot for terminal connections is ease of tying

on the water in my kayak.

 

Both knots are solid when tied well, cinched slowly

and carefully. Then I always test pull the knot and

hook to make sure it's a good connection.

1 hour ago, Sharkicane said:

What about the uni knot? why is the palomar mentioned so much more than the uni? 

 

As mentioned, uni and palomar are my go-to for 

terminal connections. Palomar might be the easiest

to tie which is a possible reason why it is one of 

the most popular knots.

[38 Super Fan]

Since you're just starting out, I'd recommend just keeping it simple. The only two knots I use are the palomar and the uni.

 

The best knot is the one you can tie well, just practice a few until you get really good at tying them.

[new2BC4bass]

I agree two knots are all you need.  Well....3 if using a drop shot although I think there is a type of swivel made just for that so back to two knots. 

 

Alberto to splice.

Uni for everything else.

 

Let's not forget

 

Arbor knot.

[Sharkicane]

I’ve got the double improved clinch knot down pretty well. Is there any application where that knot wouldn’t work? In the mean time I’ll practice the Palomar and the uni. 

[Gilly Gals]

I use the uni knot for everything except drop shots and haven't had a problem with it.

[FrankN209]

I use the Uni for everything also, brand, mono, flouro, with no problems at all, breakage or slippage...

[riverbasser]

30 minutes ago, Sharkicane said:

I’ve got the double improved clinch knot down pretty well. Is there any application where that knot wouldn’t work?

nope, but I prefer palomar for braid as it is strong and super quick to tie. fluro gets double improved clinch

[MickD]

The reason some knots work for mono and FC but don't work for braid is that braid has no stretch.  With mono and FC the knot can be pulled down very tight, which stretches the line keeping some tension in the line that helps keep the knot tight.  Also, mono and FC will take a "set" which helps keep the knots tight.  With no stretch, and the slipperyness of braid, it takes specific knots to work properly.  The palomar, in my opinion, is a great braid knot.  I expect the uni is too because a double uni works fine for joining FC/mono to braid.  You will get a hundred opinions for and against many knots, so I suggest you try some of the knots recommended and see for yourself.  But do not trust a cinch or improved cinch with braid.  i don't think many will recommend them for braid.  They will unravel, especially with aggressive jigging action like snapping a swim bait off the bottom.

 

I like to have a leader on the end of my braid and I use either the double uni or the FG knot, depending on pound test.  With braids below 20 and leaders below 15 the double uni will go through almost any guide cleanly.  For micros I use the FG as it is the smallest, strongest, albeit hard to tie properly knot for line to line.  Having a leader may be a help for stealth, although that is debatable, but it means when I retie many times I'm not cutting off expensive braid.

2 minutes ago, riverbasser said:

I’ve got the double improved clinch knot down pretty well. Is there any application where that knot wouldn’t work?

Improved cinch IMHO is unreliable for braid, but if it works for you. . .  It will unravel when subjected to aggressive jigging (with braid.)

[riverbasser]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

Improved cinch IMHO is unreliable for braid, but if it works for you. . .  It will unravel when subjected to aggressive jigging (with braid

You quoted my quote of the OP. I agree with you and only use Palomar for braid

[WRB]

Before FC came out most fresh water anglers used a version of clinch knot; Trilene, improved or double improved and the Palomar knot. 

FC line has weak knot strength so a wide verity of knots became popular to resolve knot failures which continues. 

The Palomar knot has been around long before being named Palomar and is popular because it's a double line knot that is easy to tie and reliable as long as you don't cross the lines over overheating and deforming the line when clinched tight. It's overheating that deforms knots and the more wraps and coils a knot has the more difficult it  becomes to tie correctly.

The 3 knots I use fresh water fishing are; Palomar for tieing direct to hooks and clips, the San Diego jam knot for lures because the weight of the lure makes it easy to tie and you don't need a big loop for the lure. Braid I use the old braid knot which is a doubled line clinch knot. 

Salt water using larger diameter lines there are 2 other knots I use; Perfection loop knot and Binimi twist along with Palomar and SD jam knot.

Tom 

 

[Brad in Texas]

I'd add that "uni" is short for universal and for very good reasons. If you could only tie one knot, this'd be it:

 

1) It is actually a better arbor knot for tying onto a reel . . . than an arbor knot;

2) It is one of the top "junction" knots between: a) a backer line and main line; or, a main line and a leader;

3) It is a top knot for tying on terminal tackle, can be tied "single" or lined "doubled;"

4) and, you can cinch the knot down and not pull it all the way snug for a really good loose operating loop knot alternative.

 

Brad

[new2BC4bass]

I've straightened jig hooks more than once with the Uni and 30# braid.

[MickD]

13 hours ago, riverbasser said:

You quoted my quote of the OP. I agree with you and only use Palomar for braid

Oops!  Sorry.

[OnthePotomac]

Two knots for me. Palomar for mono and uni for flouro and braid. 

[NHBull]

No need to look for the hole in the donut.....

KISS

The uni will work well in 99% of your needs.

From their the improved clinched knot and Paloma gets you the 100%

[soflabasser]

Uni to uni knot and Rapala knots are mostly what I use to tie lures and other terminal tackle.

[JustinJ]

Alberto knot for braid to leader 

Improved clinch for mono

Palomar for braid to lure

[Further North]

Line to line: FG knot or Alberto as a 2^nd choice.

 

Line to lure: Palomar, Clinch Knot or Trilene Knot.

 

Loop: Perfection Loop, Surgeon's Loop or Rapala Knot.  Perfection leads the way here, but can't always get the terminal tackle through the loop.

[FishDewd]

On 4/26/2018 at 11:49 AM, Sharkicane said:

Hey all, 

 

So I am curious and would like to get some reasoning behind different knots and there applications. Just starting out in bass fishing its kind of intimidating there are hundreds of different knots to tie, different ones for different lines, or lures, or techniques. Now I understand some techniques require certain knots in order to get the presentation right( i.e. a certain knot on a drop shot rig so that the hook sits straight out. ). It seems every video I watch I hear palomar is the knot that everyone ties on 90% of things. I get that to a certain extent that is personal preference. 

 

I would really like to know the logic behind certain knots logic that goes  beyond just the strength of the knot. Why should someone be tying certain knots or not tying them across different applications.

 

Why is the palomar knot so heavily utilized?

 

I just learned the double improved clinch knot, is there a reason that knot cant be used on all lines for all basic applications?

 

I heard loop knots on braid is a bad idea, why?

 

Loop knots in general, give certain baits more freedom when working them, is that just a personal preference or are those lures designed to be used with a loop knot? 

 

What about the uni knot? why is the palomar mentioned so much more than the uni? 

 

I know my questions are all over the place. However I am really just trying to get a better understanding of certain knots as I imagine certain knots might change the look of the lure presentation.

Short answer: try out a few and see which ones you like best via: 1.) ease of tying 2.) reliability needs. Although sometimes you have to sacrifice ease of use for special reasons. Long answer... read on.

 

Most of the knots out there are pretty good, if you aren't dealing with fluorocarbon then pretty much any well tied connection knot will work well for you. So long as you tie it correctly that is. I've been tying knots for a long time and there isn't too many I can't tie. The reason the palomar knot is so well respected is that it is unique among fishing knots. 1.) it's relatively easy to tie so long as you don't get it twisted. 2.) it's very strong. Whereas a lot of knots rely on wrapping around, the palomar uses a loop that works as a large clamp that slides down against the rest of the knot. 3.) it's reliable. Going back to #2. The reliability comes from the way it is cinched down. That loop that goes around both the main line and tag line and then clamps down onto the connection basically makes it impossible to slip a part the way that wrapping knots can do. The tag line can be clipped very close and it will never move.

 

However there are other stellar options. For me it depends upon the situation. Initially I will likely use a palomar knot for connections, unless I have a reason to use a snell, knotless knot, eggloop knot, etc. But after I have been fishing for a while and my leader is getting a little short I may not want to use the palomar because of how much line it uses to tie. I will likely instead switch to a pitzen or san diego jam knot instead. It is almost as strong as the palomar done correctly. I've never actually broken one. It propels in integrity above the cinch knot or even the improved cinch knot because it tends to get tighter as it's yanked on, and has better points of friction. If it was developed originally for heavy tuna rigs then it's likely good enough for most of your bass applications. Plus it takes less line to tie. Figure on it being an inch or two longer than when you start initially after finishing it. This is why I like it as choice #2 for general connections after my leader has been used for a while, or if I just don't feel like modifying the palomar slightly for redoing leaders when the mainline is already connected to a swivel (you can pass the line through the loop rather than passing the loop over the swivel or hook, works exactly the same way). Nothing wrong with a uni either, you can even pass it twice through the eyelet twice to make a fish 'n fool knot which holds a little better. It also triples as a bobber stop knot tied onto a mainline if you use nylon or something.

 

The only ones I avoid in that category are the nanofil, berkley braid, and trilene knots, cause they either don't cinch down properly or aren't reliable (for me). I don't trust them at all. In fact, I think the nanofil knot isn't possible to tie. It has to be a joke or something....

 

Leader to leader... there are three knots I use depending on application. When I want a lot of leader that will easily pass through the eyelets, and I have braid as a mainline, FG knot, no question. But it is tricky to tie so you'd better be willing to spend some time learning how to do it. My technique that I created is different than others I have seen yet, but it works for me. And that's what you'll have to figure out unfortunately. When I don't want to pass it through the eyelets... alberto knot. Plus it's fairly easy to tie. Just be sure you resemble as closely as you can to a double helix or DNA strand as you make the wraps and it should come out fine. Blood knot or uni-uni also works. for other connections like mono-mono, mono-copolymer or even mono or copolymer to fluoro, I use the J knot. But again, it will initially take a bit to get done. Is it complicated? Not at all, but the difficulty comes in passing two lines the proper way around a large overhand knot. Takes a few tries but is extremely reliable, I really like it. Can also use a left kreh knot, or as I call it "the figure 8 knot" to attach these sorts of lines. Easier to tie and nearly as strong. I like that knot to make a line stopper for dropshot weights.

 

Loop knots. I assume you mean those used for moving baits like crankbaits. Really the only one I use is the non-slip kreh loop AKA the Rapala knot. Another noteworthy is the perfection loop, but I don't personally like it very much. The idea behind these sorts of knots is similar to that of using a crankbait snap- they provide more natural side-side movement to the lure. Lot of uses for those sorts of knots outside of fishing too. The problem with using the with braid is that they aren't exactly the best friction wise. Most braid is pretty slippery, so they can possibly slip on you. However, not all braid is the same. You may find some that will work with loop knots just fine, but if it is one of the fluoro coated ones, probably not.

 

In summary: for connection knots, learn the palomar, the uni, and sand diego jam knot. Use whichever you can tie the best because any of those are unlikely to slip or break on you under normal circumstances. Use a palomar with heavier applications. Frankly, all three are great to know. You just have to experiment and see what you like best in various situations. I love tying knots, so I tried to learn as many as possible, but you may hate tying. So stick with what works for you and don't be afraid to experiment.

 

Sorry this was long, but I am passionate about knots and it's something I am good at, so I wanted to cram in as much info as possible.

[Further North]

@FishDewdThanks, that was fun!

[Mr Swim Jig]

I keep it really simple Palomar Knot for everything but fluorocarbon and then I use the Improved Clinch Knot.

[JustJames]

Years agos, I learnt clinch and improve clinch knot, but I found a problem of slippage more time than not, then I change to trilene knot and stuck with it since. Even with trilene knot if I'm not careful enough to clinch slippage or break at the knot still happen especially on stiffer line. I do have backup knot which is uni knot that I'll use for most of hard plastic lure and stiffer or biger diameter line.