Fluorocarbon for frogs

[All about da bass]

51 minutes ago, WRB said:

My point is it takes about 1/3rd the tensile strength of mono to start to stretch it.

17#is about 6 pounds pulling force, 25# is over 8 pounds. Try lifting a gallon plastic bottle with your frog rod, it can't! 6 lbs would be max with a heavy flipping rod.

If you believe the short 2' mono is giving you a shock absorber, then it works for you.

Tom

Did you go out there and test how much those two weights can actually be pulling and did you pick a gallon bottle with a rod or are you just guesstimating. I'm not arguing with what works and what doesn't.

[J Francho]

1/3 tensile strength is generally accepted.  The rest is math.  17/3 ~ 6.  25/3 ~ 8.  A gallon of water is a little more than 8 lbs.  Tom's point is the math and physics says you're wrong, but if it's working for you, there's no reason not to continue.  Personally, I do not think a short leader makes a difference.  I use a brightly colored frog.  If I can't see the frog, then it's in the bass's mouth, and I see no reason to hold back on the hook set.  This has been 99.99999999% true for me.  There was one tournament where I and my partner both witnessed bass grabbing our frogs by the legs skirts.  This was very unusual behavior.  We switch to Scum Frogs, which solved the issue.

[Team9nine]

On 3/28/2018 at 1:45 PM, LionHeart said:

I'm not trying to be funny or confrontational, but why would you prefer a line that can hold 65 lbs when the fish weighs 5 lbs and your rod would likely snap <20 lbs?

 

Serious question as I've read other people saying the same thing.  Why would 50 lb test not be up to the task? Or even 30 lb for that matter?

 

Lots of questionable statements floating around in this thread. But to your point, shock loading is one of the biggest reasons for using 65 lb. braid. Anyone who has cast a bait on braid that the spool locked up for whatever reason and sent the bait flying off into oblivion can attest to this. It's a little bigger problem in punching/flipping scenarios than frogging, but similar enough. You don't break 50# braid often, but it does happen, which is why most pros moved up to 65# which has become somewhat of the standard. 

 

Braided lines are very funny creatures. Braided lines DO stretch...usually around 3-4%, but that's minimal compared to other line types. But forces increase quit rapidly because of this. Braid has horrible knot strength, and increased impact/force on knots can heat them up and cause them to fail prematurely ([braid] due to lower melting points). Add in things like line twist, braiding pattern, individual fiber diameter and condition, number of fibers per strand, etc., and there's no telling the exact strength of your braid line at any given moment. Most times these factors never come into play because most people rarely exert such forces on their lines due to drag, etc., but punching/frogging applications push more toward the extremes.

 

Also, rods break at a lot more strength than you might think. They seem like delicate creatures, but properly loaded, most freshwater bass rods break in the 20-45# range. Material composition plays a big role here, as does how that force is applied. I've seen test data that shows Ugly Sticks surviving more than 55# pounds of force without breaking.

 

Bottom line, as always - use what works for you and your style of fishing and brand of equipment.

[WRB]

It's the rate the force is applied in addition to lifting force. Hooks sets can apply very high spike force or impact force while pulling on a hooked fish is a slower load.

If you think you can lift a plastic 1 gallon jug of water with any bass rod, try it!

Tom

[sully420]

Why do i use 50 to 65lb braid for frogging? Well i started with 50lb power pro and have had great luck with it no problems so why do i use 65lb now? Why not i dont need my frog to dive down deep im not worried about bass seeing it. It's stronger a little thicker and helps keep my bait on top. Why am i not worried about breaking my rod? Because i don't lift gallons of water with my rod and i don't load up my rod to horse 6lb bass out of pads.

[LionHeart]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

Lots of questionable statements floating around in this thread. But to your point, shock loading is one of the biggest reasons for using 65 lb. braid. Anyone who has cast a bait on braid that the spool locked up for whatever reason and sent the bait flying off into oblivion can attest to this. It's a little bigger problem in punching/flipping scenarios than frogging, but similar enough. You don't break 50# braid often, but it does happen, which is why most pros moved up to 65# which has become somewhat of the standard. 

 

Braided lines are very funny creatures. Braided lines DO stretch...usually around 3-4%, but that's minimal compared to other line types. But forces increase quit rapidly because of this. Braid has horrible knot strength, and increased impact/force on knots can heat them up and cause them to fail prematurely ([braid] due to lower melting points). Add in things like line twist, braiding pattern, individual fiber diameter and condition, number of fibers per strand, etc., and there's no telling the exact strength of your braid line at any given moment. Most times these factors never come into play because most people rarely exert such forces on their lines due to drag, etc., but punching/frogging applications push more toward the extremes.

 

Also, rods break at a lot more strength than you might think. They seem like delicate creatures, but properly loaded, most freshwater bass rods break in the 20-45# range. Material composition plays a big role here, as does how that force is applied. I've seen test data that shows Ugly Sticks surviving more than 55# pounds of force without breaking.

 

Bottom line, as always - use what works for you and your style of fishing and brand of equipment.

I've seen the same videos.  I don't think any bass angler on the planet is going to double their rod over while heaving a fish out of vegetation.  I don't care how big the bass is or how much vegetation there is.  That is absolutely silly.  Fishing 'heavy slop' for 'bass over 5 lb' just isn't a logical reason to change from 50 to 65 lb braid, and I read that often here.  Truth is, I'm beginning to think a lot guys have no idea why they use it, therefore have trouble qualifying why they do it.

 

Your statement about shock makes complete sense.  Thank you.  Also the points about braid not cutting your hand or digging make perfect sense.  However, when I see people say 65 lb braid is recommended purely because they don't trust 50 lb while fighting a frog fish, I am filled with confusion.  

 

Now, it matters not to me what another guy or gal uses to fish with, and they certainly don't owe me any explanation for it.  I'm just trying to gain a little clarity.  Thanks.

 

After reading this I realize it sounds like a rant, but honest, it's not.

[Troy85]

I use 40lb powerpro braid, I choose 40lb simply because the price difference between 30lb and 40lb was about $5, the difference between 40lb and 50lb was about $13.

[Fishingmickey]

deleted

[Phil B]

I like to use at least 50# test. For me the slightly bigger diameter is a little easier to see. Old eyes don't see as well anymore. I've used 30# and it cuts through the stalk on Lilly pads better but it takes a lot of stress at30' and farther. I like the 50 because I have confidence in it. 

[Justbass11]

Update...My frog setup...7’2” Terex Casting heavy-Dean Rojas rod with a Abu Garcia Revo4 reel with 40lbs Power Pro braided line

[Catt]

Here's a little interesting information ?

 

I think it was In-Fisherman who did a study with braid, mono, copolymer, & Fluorocarbon. The study was done by 10 anglers of different statutes, 7' 6" rods, 25 yds away in 12' of water. The study was to show how much pressure was applied to the hook point on hook set.

 

The results showed a maximum amount of pressure at around 8 lbs; a variance of slightly more than 1 pound to under 2 pounds.

 

The kicker was 4 of the smaller anglers scored higher with all 4 lines!

 

It was believed flawless technique was the responsible.

[MassYak85]

Like others said it mainly comes down to diameter. You WILL dig into your spool with anything less than 40lb braid fishing a frog with a tightened drag and stiff rod. Also again shock absorption, knot strength, and abrasion resistance are all terrible with braid. It's why you can cast a 1 ounce weight and have it fly off into the sunset using 50lb braid and backlashing. I fish frogs not only around vegetation but docks, rock pilings etc. 50 or 65 lb gives a little more forgiveness if you brush the line of that kind of stuff.