Epoxy question?

[Justbass11]

I’m needing to replace a guide and have everything I need but the epoxy. My question is this, Does it matter what epoxy I use? I have seen a few YouTube videos, some say 5 minute epoxy is just fine and others say go with this and go with that. Again, does it matter which epoxy I use? Thanks for all inputs

[MickD]

Any liquid epoxy will do the job, but it may not look that good.  Epoxies designed for wrapping guides level well after application, are very clear, and turn amber slower than epoxies meant for structural use.  If using black thread I expect any fluid epoxy will look fine for a long time.  I think that 5 minute epoxy would harden before it has time to level, but have no experience with it for guides.  If I were to do this repair and I didn't want to buy the real wrap epoxy, I'd use one that takes the normal time to cure and rotate the rod every fifteen minutes or so.  If you get significant sags, take the excess off by touching a brush to the underside of the guide to remove the "drop."

[bish0p]

5 minute epoxy sets too fast. I'd use a traditional thread finish like ProKote, Threadmaster, Flexcoat, etc...

[Justbass11]

Thanks for all the advice, and now for another question, where can I get Prokote, Threadmaster or Flexcoat?? Amazon??

[MickD]

Mudhole.com will have all you ever could desire on rodbuilding.  Min shipping of $6.95, I think, so look their catalog over well to make sure you have all you want in one order.  Great customer service, call them if in doubt-they will help.  You don't need Flexcoat and Prokote, so make your choice and order one.  The difference between them is that Flexcoat will set up faster than Prokote, so if you are manually rotating the blank, you won't have to rotate it so long.  Prokote is a fine product, too, but even after a day, you may wonder if it will ever get really hard.  If you've mixed it properly, it will.

 

DON'T make the mistake of doing a quick mix on these two-part products.  I force myself to mix them for at least two minutes, and scrape it all together while mixing to ensure even distribution of the two parts.  Then blow on the surface  through a straw to break the bubbles, and then apply.  Gently blow on the wrap through the straw, and you're done. Exc for rotating  if you decide to do that, which I recommend.

[Fishinthefish]

You can also use any self leveling bar top epoxy. I use envirotech lite for my hand made fishing lures for an example.

[Justbass11]

I just want to say thanks to all the reply’s. I’m going to the Classic next week and hopefully someone will have what I need, if not I’ll go on mud hole and get the epoxy. Again thanks for all the replies 

[Deleted account]

I don't build rods, but I fix a bunch, and I have 6 words for ya'll, one part water soluble rod finish...

[MickD]

15 hours ago, reason said:

I don't build rods, but I fix a bunch, and I have 6 words for ya'll, one part water soluble rod finish...

Can you elaborate on this product?  Brand name?  I'm not familiar with it by this name.

[Deleted account]

9 hours ago, MickD said:

Can you elaborate on this product?  Brand name?  I'm not familiar with it by this name.

http://www.guidesnblanks.com/page/rod_varnishurethanepolymers_one_part_finishes_r1

 

[.ghoti.]

I would not recommend urethane based products like Lumiseal or Permagloss. And stay away from products not designed specifically for rod building.

 

Threadmaster or Flex Coat, both two part epoxies, designed for rod building, will be your best bet.

 

Stay away from Prokote. It is known for erratic curing behavior.

[MickD]

I respectfully think these last few posts are confusing the issue.  Justbass wants to simply replace a guide, so using an epoxy designed for wraps is obviously a good solution.  

 

Pro Coat has only one issue: It takes a long time to harden, often a few days.  But if that is consistent with one's time-table, then it is a reliable, high quality, product.  I've used it on many rods and have had zero problems with it.  If there is a report of never hardening, it was a failure to mix it thoroughly enough.  ALL epoxies should be stirred at least two minutes or they will be unreliable at hardening.  

 

The water vapor curing urethanes, like Permagloss and Lumiseal are good for their intended use, which is finishing the blank itself if you want to get a gloss finish.  But they don't build like wrap epoxy, so the acheiving of a "glass" smooth finish cannot really be done with them.  They will always leave the texture of the thread showing.  Wrap epoxies are unsuitable for finishing the whole blank-too thick and heavy, will actually slow down the action of the rod and are not as hard as Permagloss or Lumiseal.

 

Ghoti is right, don't use products not designed for rod building WRAPS as you don't know what you are getting into.

 

The other products on the link, water-based "varnishes," (notice the one is amber colored, probably suitable for cane rods, but I'm not familiar with it) are not, as far as I can tell, designed for wraps.  Before using them you might want to talk to the publisher of the link in Studley, UK.  I doubt if they (exc for Lumiseal) can be purchased here.  By the way, Lumiseal is not water soluble-it uses water vapor to cure.

 

Stick with the original plan, epoxy designed for wraps (as Ghoti said, Threadmaster, Flex Coat, or Pro Coat if you have the time to wait for it). Mix them for two minutes min, wait for bubbles to break, blow gently on it through a straw to break bubbles, then apply).  I gently blow on the wrap through the straw to break any bubbles I missed before, or any that formed while applying.

 

 

[Justbass11]

Thanks MickD and Ghoti for your advice and the input. I’ll go on Mud Hole and get the stuff I need. Thanks again for all the input 

[grub_man]

I've used a water based varnish before.  It worked ok, but the bottle I had could be slowly wiped away with alcohol even after it cured.  Not bad in a pinch, but wasn't an ideal solution, however for a simple repair, it will get the job done.

 

I'm not sure if it is still around, but Threadmaster One is another one part finish that works well in this scenario.  A few coats will build up some depth.  It doesn't react to thread the same way as the two part finishes, so it will result in a slightly different look on colored thread.

 

Otherwise, stick with the traditional finishes.