Why do the older legendary pros struggle to compete ? ?

[scaleface]

Most of these guys who were once dominant , seldom make the cut anymore , let alone qualify for year end championships. Guys like Clunn, Grigsby , Yelas ... Do you think because they already made a success of pro fishing that they just are not motivated like they once were or do you think the younger anglers are just that much  better?

[Team9nine]

Combination of youth (desire, physical abilities and energy), technology (both equipment and learning curves) and versatility (esp. with "newer" techniques).

[senile1]

Good question, but one that I can't answer.  I know as I have grown older I am a better angler than I was when I was younger.  Through repetition of concepts and time on the water, applying those concepts becomes easier and at times almost second nature.  I would think the same would apply for the older professionals.  Maybe it has something to do with their stamina in maintaining the intensity of thought and physicality needed to win.  I don't know.

[scaleface]

5 minutes ago, senile1 said:

Good question, but one that I can't answer.  I know as I have grown older I am a better angler than I was when I was younger.

Same here 

[senile1]

3 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

Combination of youth (desire, physical abilities and energy), technology (both equipment and learning curves) and versatility (esp. with "newer" techniques).

I agree with most of this, though as professionals I would think they keep up with the technology.  I am 57 and a senior network engineer and the young people come to me when they can't solve issues, but that is because it is my job to keep up with technology changes.  I would think it would be the same for older professional anglers.

[Turtle135]

I suspect the younger anglers are more adept with todays electronics (and electronics have become extremely important in tournament fishing).

 

I am in the computer business. What I notice is that if I hand my teenage nieces and nephews a new IPAD that it takes them about 60 seconds before they are navigating around at light speed. If I hand my brother who is in his late 50's the same device I am still getting phone calls two weeks later about how to accomplish what should be a straight forward task. He gets there eventually but it takes him a lot longer to integrate the device into the way he works.

[Team9nine]

7 minutes ago, senile1 said:

I agree with most of this, though as professionals I would think they keep up with the technology.  I am 57 and a senior network engineer and the young people come to me when they can't solve issues, but that is because it is my job to keep up with technology changes.  I would think it would be the same for older professional anglers.

To expand on the technology part, learning curves for younger anglers is incredibly shorter and more expansive than it ever was for older anglers thanks to websites, social media, their penchant for networking, etc. They're learning a majority of what took the old pros sometimes a decade or more to figure out in a matter of a couple years now.

 

Additionally, their growing up with technology (wireless, hand held, immediate, etc.) means they embrace it and are the fast adopters of things like networked depthfinders, SI/DI, Panoptix, newer hybrid TM (Ultrex), Google Earth and other online imagery, and on and on.

 

I'm sure the older anglers are aware this stuff is out there, but how many are actually mastering and utilizing it in a quick and efficient manner is the difference (see Turtle135's comment above).

[Gundog]

Besides the reasons mentioned above don't forget about family life. Many of the "old guys" have spent decades on the road, traveling from one place to the next and simply see family as more important than they use to when they were younger.  Its a tough life to put so much of your time and energy into one thing with very little time for anything else. We all have jobs and lives outside of those jobs with a somewhat equal balance. Professional anglers don't. Its a constant grind that many older anglers don't want to do anymore. So they may not practice for all of the events or choose a granddaughters birthday over time on the lake. Priorities change the older you get. 

[senile1]

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

To expand on the technology part, learning curves for younger anglers is incredibly shorter and more expansive than it ever was for older anglers thanks to websites, social media, their penchant for networking, etc. They're learning a majority of what took the old pros sometimes a decade or more to figure out in a matter of a couple years now.

 

Additionally, their growing up with technology (wireless, hand held, immediate, etc.) means they embrace it and are the fast adopters of things like networked depthfinders, SI/DI, Panoptix, newer hybrid TM (Ultrex), Google Earth and other online imagery, and on and on.

 

I'm sure the older anglers are aware this stuff is out there, but how many are actually mastering and utilizing it in a quick and efficient manner is the difference (see Turtle135's comment above).

If you are just talking about the average older adult or the average angler, then the above would be true.

 

I don't know about your familiarity with network engineering, but it goes well beyond just the computer business and encompasses a gamut of technologies including the implementation of voice servers, data servers, phones, firewalls, routers, switches, ACD servers, ACD scripting, DMVPNs, SDWANS, virtualized environments, wireless phone integration, etc.  We build entire converged computer networks for corporations.  And the younger network engineers tend to be not as savvy as the 4 older senior engineers where I work.  It is a matter of time spent studying, experience, and continuous study to keep up with technological improvements.  

 

Maybe older professional anglers do not keep up with the technology in their field like we do, but I would think they have a step up on using it since they are already familiar with the older technology and should be presented with newer technologies to play with every time their sponsors develop them.  Maybe they choose to just let it go after a while and not learn how to use something newer - living off their past laurels so to speak.   

 

 

[Team9nine]

29 minutes ago, senile1 said:

If you are just talking about the average older adult or the average angler, then the above would be true.

 

I don't know about your familiarity with network engineering, but it goes well beyond just the computer business and encompasses a gamut of technologies including the implementation of voice servers, data servers, phones, firewalls, routers, switches, ACD servers, ACD scripting, DMVPNs, SDWANS, virtualized environments, wireless phone integration, etc.  We build entire converged computer networks for corporations.  And the younger network engineers tend to be not as savvy as the 4 older senior engineers where I work.  It is a matter of time spent studying, experience, and continuous study to keep up with technological improvements.  

 

Maybe older professional anglers do not keep up with the technology in their field like we do, but I would think they have a step up on using it since they are already familiar with the older technology and should be presented with newer technologies to play with every time their sponsors develop them.  

 

 

I don't view it as the same thing at all. I think in your example above, technology is central to the position and keeping up with changes in that technology as part of a broader platform is an advantage (and arguably required).

 

To professional angling, I don't see the comparisons. There is really no benefit to having grown up with paper graphs and flashers in the age of Mega-imaging. How great you are on a trolling motor means nothing to a GPS programmable unit linked to every depth finder in the boat and controlled by the press of a button. Everything you ever learned about baits, techniques, lakes, etc is available to today's anglers, and absorbed in weeks instead of a lifetime. Every major tournament ever won is available for them to study and dissect, and learn from.

 

As it seems to be turning out, there is very little advantage to angling experience when these kids started at such a young age and have the ability to learn from every mistake ever made on the pro trail. An Elite friend of mine chides me all the time about me "fishing history." Today's young pros, for the most part, have no fear of, and could largely care less about, how we fished in the past (baits, technology, patterns, etc.). 

 

Just my take on it having experienced it first hand.

[Scott F]

I'm an older guy who often fishes with a guy many years younger than me. We don't tournament fish but we both work hard on a long day of fishing. I always find that as the day wears on, I get tired more easily than my younger partner. As my energy drops, my concentration fades, and I don't make as many casts, and my casting accuracy suffers. As a result, the guy I was keeping up with catch wise early in the day, nearly always out fishes me in the afternoon. I can only imagine how the added stress of big time tournament fishing drains energy from a fisherman. It takes a lot of energy to compete at a high level for 8 hours.

[A-Jay]

Why do the older legendary pros struggle to compete ? ?

Interesting question.

There aren't a whole lot of 'professional sports' where 50 year old's are effectively competing with 20 year old's.

I believe the reason(s) are fairly obvious

However, as a 50 something human myself, this isn't something I'm particularly excited about.

But it is what it is.  

Probably where "Youth is wasted on the young" came from.

A-Jay

 

 

[12poundbass]

Keep in mind Mr. Clunn a couple years back won, and a few years before that went toe to toe with Keith Combs on Amistad. He/they may not be up there on the leaderboard week in and week out, but keep in mind there are plenty of young bucks that aren't either. Take a look at the FLW roster (nothing against FLW) and you'll see some names that will refresh your memory of their Elite days. Yet Mr. Clunn, Mr. Grigsby and others are still fishing the Elites year after year. 

 

I'll start the list of young bucks:

Jason Quinn

Derik Remitz

Chad Grigsby

 

[senile1]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

I don't view it as the same thing at all. I think in your example above, technology is central to the position and keeping up with changes in that technology as part of a broader platform is an advantage (and arguably required).

 

To professional angling, I don't see the comparisons. There is really no benefit to having grown up with paper graphs and flashers in the age of Mega-imaging. How great you are on a trolling motor means nothing to a GPS programmable unit linked to every depth finder in the boat and controlled by the press of a button. Everything you ever learned about baits, techniques, lakes, etc is available to today's anglers, and absorbed in weeks instead of a lifetime. Every major tournament ever won is available for them to study and dissect, and learn from.

 

As it seems to be turning out, there is very little advantage to angling experience when these kids started at such a young age and have the ability to learn from every mistake ever made on the pro trail. An Elite friend of mine chides me all the time about me "fishing history." Today's young pros, for the most part, have no fear of, and could largely care less about, how we fished in the past (baits, technology, patterns, etc.). 

 

Just my take on it having experienced it first hand.

Good points, all.  What professional angers learn about technology is certainly at the lower end of the spectrum of what can be learned in the entire technological field, so in that regard it does not compare.  I also agree that the younger lot can learn everything much quicker and I would agree that old paper flasher technology would not help with future technology.   

 

The comparison I am making is in the professionalism of performing the job for those who still find it important to compete effectively.  I am referring to professional anglers who have kept up with the technology to . . . . let's say the last generation of sonar and depth finders, not someone who quit learning after paper flashers.  In my opinion the newer side imaging, down imaging, 360, Panoptix, etc do not require a big jump in technical user knowledge from the previous generation of equipment.  It is, after all, just knowledge learned from the user perspective and not the programming perspective.  I assume a professional angler who still takes his job seriously would continue to learn until the point where it isn't important to him anymore.  (Though I should keep in mind that maybe they don't see learning new user technologies from the same perspective as I. )

 

Having said that your point is well-taken that the older guys may not be as good with the technology, but I don't see it as something they are incapable of.  I just see it as something they see as unimportant at this stage after they have already made a name for themselves.  They can now make money without being at the top of their game.  In other words, the technology isn't the culprit.  Their desire to learn is.

[senile1]

3 hours ago, Gundog said:

Besides the reasons mentioned above don't forget about family life. Many of the "old guys" have spent decades on the road, traveling from one place to the next and simply see family as more important than they use to when they were younger.  Its a tough life to put so much of your time and energy into one thing with very little time for anything else. We all have jobs and lives outside of those jobs with a somewhat equal balance. Professional anglers don't. Its a constant grind that many older anglers don't want to do anymore. So they may not practice for all of the events or choose a granddaughters birthday over time on the lake. Priorities change the older you get. 

I think that is a very perceptive comment, Gundog.  Most of these guys have proven themselves, some have their own shows, and others get paid to place their names on new lures, etc.  Maybe it isn't worth putting in the extra effort that interferes with family and other parts of their lives if it isn't necessary to make a living.

[Team9nine]

37 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Keep in mind Mr. Clunn a couple years back won, and a few years before that went toe to toe with Keith Combs on Amistad. He/they may not be up there on the leaderboard week in and week out, but keep in mind there are plenty of young bucks that aren't either. Take a look at the FLW roster (nothing against FLW) and you'll see some names that will refresh your memory of their Elite days. Yet Mr. Clunn, Mr. Grigsby and others are still fishing the Elites year after year. 

 

I'll start the list of young bucks:

Jason Quinn

Derik Remitz

Chad Grigsby

 

 

There's a reason BASS uses average career AOY placement to fill remaining Elite field openings, as well as recently adding "Legend exemptions" into the mix.

 

 

5 minutes ago, senile1 said:

having said that your point is well-taken that the older guys may not be as good with the technology, but I don't see it as something they are incapable of.  I just see it as something they see as unimportant at this stage after they have already made a name for themselves.  They can now make money without being at the top of their game.  In other words, the technology isn't the culprit.  Their desire to learn is.

 

A very fair and realistic point. The critical question then to me would be, does their competitive nature allow them to just be mediocre at best, largely going through the motions with the occasional good showing? Top competitors in all sports are often quoted as saying when they are no longer competitive, they'll know it's time to walk away. But as we all too often see, "walking away" isn't always so easy when you've been on top. And as BASS has shown, booting "legends" off the tour isn't an easy call or even a popular one.

[12poundbass]

8 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

There's a reason BASS uses average career AOY placement to fill remaining Elite field openings, as well as recently adding "Legend exemptions" into the mix.

 

I wasn't aware of this. I'm guessing the two I mentioned fall into the career AOY category? I think Shaw is on the verge of not making it if he doesn't have a good year this year. 

[Ratherbfishing]

Whereas I do think I'm a BETTER angler than I was 20 or even 10 years ago, I am also less DURABLE than I used to be (20 or even 10 years ago).  When I need to stop and rest, I do.  I've never fished a tournament but i can imagine the level of intensity required is more than most of us "old-timers" can handle (on a regular basis).  Keep in mind that at 53, I'm at LEAST 10 years younger than most of the pioneers in the sport so I don't even want to think about what I'll be able to endure in 10 years. 

[Rodney Smith]

The one word that comes to mind is stubbornness. The same thing that makes me throw a jig most all day because I want to. The older we get, the less we adapt and change. Not so with younger people. They have vast amounts of knowledge at their disposal and a willingness to try new things. For some of the legends, it seems if it has been working for 30 years, it is still good enough. A young person would put a new wrinkle on an old standby and use it outfish the older guys as a result. I would say a little loss of passion and stubbornness...

[Scott F]

I think saying that the older guys on tour are not tech savvy enough or that they are too stubborn to adapt is not giving them enough credit. Even my suggestion that older pros may not have enough stamina to compete at the same intense level all day may be insulting to the guys who are on the water all day every day. Everybody is different and there could be as many reasons why older pros may not be winning as much as they used to as there are older pros. 

[Catt]

I personally know several of the name y'all throwing around thinking they're not tech savvy!

 

Y'all totally wrong!

 

I've watched Shaw Grigsby explain to young guns things about their electronics they don't know it was capable of.

 

Larry Nixon is very well versed in all modern electronics but can read details on his Hummingbird Flasher y'all would miss with down/ side imaging.

 

Fervency!

 

I think the older Pros are more laid back than they use be. They not worried any more about "I gotta place in the top or I'm not gonna pay the house note".

 

That does change your mindset ?

[Turtle135]

I find this to be very interesting conversation. I know I became a much better fisherman over the last 18 years for one simple reason (which I will leave out of this conversion for the time being). Prior to that my skill increased at only a glacial pace for the previous 30 seasons.

 

I wonder, who you would put your money on if a tournament was conducted without any fish finders, no gps, no power poles, no spot lock and no wealth of historical information at an anglers disposal?

 

 

[Catt]

4 minutes ago, Turtle135 said:

no wealth of historical information at an anglers disposal?

 

 

The historical information is in their brains!

[Turtle135]

6 minutes ago, Catt said:

The historical information is in their brains!

To some degree but I think you would agree that the amount of information that one individual could recall from a tournament that occurred 15 seasons back would be limited.

[Rodney Smith]

It isn’t so much that younger guys are more tech savvy and the older guys are not. I suspect they all are. It is that the new guys are not so stuck in their ways. For instance, I watched Kevin Van Dam fish a drop shot last week on Major League fishing. He was fishing with a 1/2 weight and moving it fast. He is the greatest fisherman of all time, but he will be a power fisherman until the day he dies. The game has gone more finesse. The guys who are winning can do both. It isn’t that the older guys can’t do both, they just don’t want to. With that said, I agree that it doesn’t mean as much to them as the young guys. They were all hungry once,  but most have made their money and priorities have changed.