swivels

[2tall79]

I've seen quite a few videos lately in which pros are recommending the use of barrel swivels to join braid to mono/fluoro.  How many of you guys are using swivels like this?  One pro even suggested that a stainless swivel resembles a baitfish.  Thanks

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Use swivels only if the presentation calls for it not just to avoid learning to tie a good Albright 

[Dens228]

I don't see the need, plus you're adding another knot to the chain........

[2tall79]

21 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Use swivels only if the presentation calls for it not just to avoid learning to tie a good Albright 

I doubt that a professional bass fisherman would use a swivel to avoid learning to tie a knot.  I would think it's more of a line twist issue.

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Right, hence "if the presentation calls for it..."

 

the OP mentioned just to attach a leader, which can be done with a simple knot 99% of the time. 

[SDoolittle]

I've seen people do it. I always thought it was kind of silly. The only thing I use a swivel for is a Carolina rig.

[Fishing_FF]

I wondered about this too because on Gary Yamamoto’s website and his catalog, it shows a swivel connected between the leader and mainline. 

 

I finally had had a chance to speak to one of the pro staff there a couple months ago and here is the answer I got: They show the swivel being used as often people new to fishing gravitate towards spinning gear and don’t understand how to rig a bait straight on a hook. To minimize issues with a Senko spin and causing line twist, a swivel is recommended. 

 

The feeling I got was once you go to a bait caster reel or you’ve mastered rigging the bait so it doesn’t spin, the swivel can be eliminated. 

 

You’ll find some favoring swivels for certain presentations like the thread on here from mid-January talking about using swivels with flukes. I’ve never seen a set up for a double fluke rig that didn’t use a pair of swivels.

[Team9nine]

Not doing it myself yet, but I think the biggest reason (though rarely stated) is the ability to tie two different connecting knots, one for each specific line material used, will often lead to an overall stronger connection than having to use a single connecting knot to join two different material types together.

[Deleted account]

Yeah, I do it when I want to pseudo mojo or splitshot, or sometimes when I want to weigh down the nose of a JB. We use barrel swivels a lot in salt water, so I always have a bunch around. For line twist, I go with a ball bearing swivel, but not often.

[FishDewd]

With a background in catfishing, I generally use one in case the fish itself decides to roll the lure/bait which can throw them off the hook. Plus I don't really trust joining knots all that much, I've had too many of them break when using leader lines through debris, or tough conditions, etc. I normally just use a very small Spro power swivel, like a size 6, 80 lb test. I don't feel it adds enough weight to matter, and it's made of a vibration sensitive metal that doesn't hamper the feel in any way. I trust two palomar knots to attach the swivel a lot more than a single Alberto knot or similar to join a mainline with a leader. I can't do a good FG knot, but not sure I would trust that very much either. Sometimes I don't use an actual swivel though, such as when I am using a spinshot hook for dropshotting because it already is a swivel. Or, if I am trying to crank or use hard baits that attach with an eyelet; in these case I will use a snap swivel at the end of the mainline so I can easily cycle between baits.

[MassYak85]

The only time I use a swivel to attach a leader is when the leader is wire, or when I am Carolina rigging, but in that instance the swivel's main purpose is not to join the lines. 

[Smalls]

My main concern would be that your leader would have to be extremely short for most applications. I normally cast a lure with it hanging maybe 1-2 ft from the tip. I’m certainly not launching a swivel through my guides, even if it would fit. 

 

Im a braid-to-leader guy. I’m also a bank fisherman, so I’d rather not carry leader materials with me if I don’t have to. So I’ll use a VMC crankbait snap with my hard baits so I don’t have to cut, re tie, and lose leader length. 

 

My knot tying skills are less than impressive, but I’ve yet to have an alberto come loose. My leader is gonna snap before that knot comes loose. 

[Yudo1]

I'd be too paranoid about reeling the barrel swivel up into the tip guide.

[FishDewd]

Can someone help me out with something relating to connecting leaders to mainline?

 

I am struggling to understand why one would need to reel the connecting knot through the eyelets, hence the FG knot. Unless you are fly fishing, why would one need to reel the knot up through the eyelets? When I tie on a leader, it hangs down, and the knot is below the first eyelet. If I need it to be longer, then I just let it hang down more before I cast. My leaders are usually not more than about 18" long, and that is kinda rare for me to be that long. So what is the deal with reeling it past eyelets? Is there some sort of ultra-long leader presentation that is used or what?

[smalljaw67]

6 hours ago, FishDewd said:

Can someone help me out with something relating to connecting leaders to mainline?

 

I am struggling to understand why one would need to reel the connecting knot through the eyelets, hence the FG knot. Unless you are fly fishing, why would one need to reel the knot up through the eyelets? When I tie on a leader, it hangs down, and the knot is below the first eyelet. If I need it to be longer, then I just let it hang down more before I cast. My leaders are usually not more than about 18" long, and that is kinda rare for me to be that long. So what is the deal with reeling it past eyelets? Is there some sort of ultra-long leader presentation that is used or what?

With bass fishing you often have to retie after a couple of fish or if changing baits so if you tie a short leader you get 1 or 2 times to retie and then you end up having to tie on a new leader instead of just the bait or hook. If you are fishing a tournament it will kill you in wasted time. There are other reasons too but in short there are a lot of reasons. The guys that fish my local rivers for smallmouth that use braid will tie on 30' leaders, 1 reason is to avoid tying leaders constantly but another is the rocky environment isn't kind to braided line and the long leader helps keep the brad out of the rocks, and that may be a little on the long side but you adapt your needs to the situation. 

I use a small Spro power swivel for a technique called "shrimping". This is similar to a split shot rig except we don't use a split shot. We tie on the small swivel and then tie a leader 2' long and add a small size #2 or #4 Owner Mosquito hook and nose hook a small 3" bait like a Damiki Armor Shad or something similar. The small swivel add only a tiny amount of weight so the bait drifts naturally when fishing in light current, but more importantly you won't get the line twist that this technique will cause. That technique is the only time I'm tying a swivel on to attach a leader when it comes to bass fishing.

[Sam]

Many years ago this is what I was told by a tournament fisherman regarding swivels.

 

1.  The bass will hit the swivel and not your bait.

2.  As stated above, you now have two more knots in your line which are weak spots.

3.  Swivels will make you use a shorter leader as they may not go through your rod's eye guide causing you to have casting problems.

4.  Swivels do not eliminate line twist as you would think they would do.

 

Now, fast forward to last year when I fished the upper Potomac with a pro and he said to tie directly to the bait with braid and avoid the leader. He said this will not cause the fish to avoid your bait. Of course, using a leader is suggested but only if you master tying fluorocarbon to braid.

 

It boils down to confidence. If you have confidence in swivels by all means use them.  If you don't then avoid them. Experiment as you wish and have fun determining which method you like best.

[Crestliner2008]

The only time I use a swivel is when I'm deep jigging for lake trout. They tend to spin a lot when bringing them in. Other than that, I've learned to tie the Alberto knot to my main line braid. And I keep my leaders (fluorocarbon) to about 4 feet. This way I can re-tie without having to replace the leader entirely.

[2tall79]

OK, so I just got done watching Zona catching big smallies on the St Lawrence.  He says his rigging is "magical".  He's tying 40# braid to a "big barrel swivel" and 15# FC using Strike King Caffeine Shad.  So I guess it works for some guys.

[corn-on-the-rob]

I am a huge proponent of learning the minimum amount of good knots to deal with the situations you need, and not a single one extra. For my self, a san diego jam covers direct tie with any line type, Alberto for leader connections, and a uni-snell (but I am getting away from snelling). I agree with others for the most part by saying, whenever possible, tie direct with one of those types of knots.

 

There are a few cases where I don't mind a small barrel swivel. Fluke setups, and drop shotting. Yes, I said drop shotting. And I am sure there are a few other justified situations that reasonably call for a barrel swivel that I didn't mention above, but I digress.

 

I am on Erie every weekend, so naturally I drop shot a ton, so let's address the issues:

 

Line Twist: Despite regurgitated non-facts, line twist is a verrrry real thing with braid, especially with certain techniques (like drop shot). Yes, I like a good connection knot, and yes, I try to hook my bait as straight as possible, and yes, I reel in slowly. But, if you drop shot frequently, line twist can be unavoidable, this is where I like a barrel swivel for drop shotting.

 

Adding Weight: Just like in a fluke setup, a barrel swivel can be the answer of solving the above problem, while adding a little up-the-line weight to get a certain desired action out of the fluke or weightless plastic. Yes, you can use a pegged bullet weight or split-shot, but a small barrel swivel is very stream-lined and gets the job done well. 

 

Knot Fear: While I would never encourage someone to tie unnecessary additional knots, this is the most common negative that people will bring up with this or similar topics where you add an element to your presentation via more knots.

 

So I'd like to say this: whether you have one knot or 5 knots tied between you and your bait, if you are breaking your line/knot, the number of knots is not the issue.

 

Choice of knot: Learn a high strength, yet simple knot to tie. Many people get attached to certain knots "because that's what they've always tied". Do your research, do your own testing at home. If you are using a poorly designed knot, you are failing before you get started. People like to also learn unnecessarily complicated knots just for a debatably negligible strength gain.

 

Knot Quality: Of course, no matter then knot, if tied improperly, can fail. This is why I am a big believer in as simple as possible. If the knot I tie is easy, simple, hard to tie incorrectly, and it has a a good average break strength, I will absolutely not use a significantly more complicated knot just to achieve 95% or even 100% breaking strength when I already had 90%.

 

Equipment Settings: If you setup your equipment improperly relative to your line/hook, you will fail. Rod power (even action) and drag are the keys here. You can tie the best knot in the world that has 200% strength (kidding) with 4lb line, but if you are frog fishing in lilly pads, using your xxxheavy rod, with a locked-down drag, you will fail, and it's not the knot's fault.

In summary, of course every additional knot gives you an additional chance to mess up tying a knot, but if you do your due diligence and ensure each knot is a good designed knot, properly tied, and have your equipment set correctly, you should be fine if you want use an extra knot.

 

Maybe i'll make a video this year with a bunch of daisy chained leaders/barrel swivels and catch some fat smallies with the same reel/rod settings as if I was only using one direct tied knot!

 

 

 

[FishDewd]

5 hours ago, smalljaw67 said:

With bass fishing you often have to retie after a couple of fish or if changing baits so if you tie a short leader you get 1 or 2 times to retie and then you end up having to tie on a new leader instead of just the bait or hook. If you are fishing a tournament it will kill you in wasted time. There are other reasons too but in short there are a lot of reasons. The guys that fish my local rivers for smallmouth that use braid will tie on 30' leaders, 1 reason is to avoid tying leaders constantly but another is the rocky environment isn't kind to braided line and the long leader helps keep the brad out of the rocks, and that may be a little on the long side but you adapt your needs to the situation. 

I use a small Spro power swivel for a technique called "shrimping". This is similar to a split shot rig except we don't use a split shot. We tie on the small swivel and then tie a leader 2' long and add a small size #2 or #4 Owner Mosquito hook and nose hook a small 3" bait like a Damiki Armor Shad or something similar. The small swivel add only a tiny amount of weight so the bait drifts naturally when fishing in light current, but more importantly you won't get the line twist that this technique will cause. That technique is the only time I'm tying a swivel on to attach a leader when it comes to bass fishing.

All right, that makes sense. Of course, you can always use some sort of snap at the end of the leader so that you don't need to retie for changing lures, even Glenn recommended that in one of the crankbait videos from BR that I've watched. The little crankbait snaps work pretty well or this, as do small snap swivels. It's true you don't really need a swivel for bass, cause in the limited experience I have catching them, they don't roll so much as they jump. Swivel won't help to avoid losing them on the jump, only a tight line will do that lol. I might tie on a copolymer line like P-line, but I don't like long flouro leaders very much cause for me they cast really poorly. I will sometimes attach a short amount, like a foot or so, of 15 lb Seaguar Red Label, but I notice the distance I can cast drops significantly when I do this. Guess it is a situational thing.

[Smalls]

12 hours ago, FishDewd said:

All right, that makes sense. Of course, you can always use some sort of snap at the end of the leader so that you don't need to retie for changing lures, even Glenn recommended that in one of the crankbait videos from BR that I've watched. The little crankbait snaps work pretty well or this, as do small snap swivels. 

I use the snaps. I still retie after catching a few fish, because they can damage line with their “teeth”. 

 

I won’t use snap swivels. All the snaps that come with swivels are not designed well for use with a lure, and will hinder action. 

[FishDewd]

Maybe that's why I haven't had luck with crankbaits... I'll experiment next time I go out. All I have are crankbait snaps, but they're kind of a pain to disconnect and reconnect without a pair of pliers.

[NHBull]

The only time I use them is when I want to run Flukes a little deeper than usual.

 

I know I can peg a weight, but the swivel just works for me