Future's In Your Hands ~

[J Francho]

There is a special, early trophy season on Erie in Buffalo, NY that allows two fish to be kept for weigh in.  It coincides with pre-spawn and spawn.  Hasn't devastated the fishery there.

[MickD]

7 hours ago, J Francho said:

There is a special, early trophy season on Erie in Buffalo, NY that allows two fish to be kept for weigh in.  It coincides with pre-spawn and spawn.  Hasn't devastated the fishery there.

I'll defer to the experts who were commenting on allowing TOURNAMENTS, not  individual anglers.  Tournaments have large numbers of expert anglers who are allowed to keep 5 fish, which with culling could involve displacing a great number of fish.  

[TnRiver46]

Every situation is different but here is one case study: on the Tennessee River (the part in east Tennessee anyway) you can keep 5 smallmouth 18” and up year round. There are bass tournaments, several a week, year round. People can eat them off the beds, weigh them in, mount them, use them for live bait, anything that’s not classified as wanton waste. And we still have an extremely healthy population of smallmouth of all age classes. Not saying that can or will work anywhere or everywhere, but wildlife survival is ALL about habitat. And habitat is almost all about food 

[J Francho]

3 hours ago, MickD said:

I'll defer to the experts who were commenting on allowing TOURNAMENTS, not  individual anglers.  Tournaments have large numbers of expert anglers who are allowed to keep 5 fish, which with culling could involve displacing a great number of fish.  

Uh, there’s a ton of tournaments during this timeframe. I mean a ton. The launch is so big, they do a valet launch because it’s like a stadium sized parking lot. It’s a two fish limit. And they have to be over 18 or something like that. Can’t remember the exact details. 

[slonezp]

14 hours ago, MickD said:

I'll defer to the experts who were commenting on allowing TOURNAMENTS, not  individual anglers.  Tournaments have large numbers of expert anglers who are allowed to keep 5 fish, which with culling could involve displacing a great number of fish.  

Displacing fish? Come on man. Fish aren't people. They don't need comfort crawdads to get them thru tough times. If anything, pulling fish off a bed where nuptials have already taken place will allow the eggs to be open season for nest raiders. Not to mention, not all bass spawn in clear shallow water. Many are smart enough to spawn in deeper less clear areas especially smallmouth. 

[Spankey]

I know that I can be anal about certain things. My wife claims that is why people are reluctant to fish with me. 

 

I don't want to kill a Smallie. I don't want to see a Smallie killed. I don't like to see them mishandled. I treat them very gingerly and pride myself in doing so. I realize things happen. One may fall to the deck carpet etc. bad hook set (cut the hook). C&R on all my bass and empathize that to others that are with me. Photo than C&R. I'm up for that. 

[MickD]

6 hours ago, slonezp said:

pulling fish off a bed where nuptials have already taken place will allow the eggs to be open season for nest raiders.

That is exactly what I meant about displacing.  "Sarcasm alert" regarding "comfort crawdads."  Also, I may be crazy but I'm not stupid.

[walleye13]

Good topic AJ, I'm with you 100%. We deal with a similar issue at Lake of the Ozarks with Largemouth where they have tournaments year around irregardless of the spawn. The icing on the cake was last April when they had the 2 day Big Bass Bash. While this is an amateur event only (no pros allowed), the payout is for the 30 BIGGEST bass every 2 hours for 2 days. I realize they cannot predict the weather when they schedule such events, but last year the fish were solidly on beds during that time frame. Can you imagine how many big females were taken off beds and relocated by 2400 boats with 2 anglers each? The relocation alone is a touchy subject for me anyway given the high number of tourneys on this body of water. I'm on the lower end of the lake, which gets 90% of the fishing pressure in the winter....and as long as the main channel isn't iced over they are having a  tournament!! These aren't little 15 boat club tournaments either. Usually at least 50 boats who haul their 5 fish limits 15-20 miles back to the weigh in.

Sorry for the rant...

[J Francho]

Females may stick around the nest, but not for too long.  Males are the ones that guard the nest until the fry are free swimming.

[slonezp]

9 hours ago, J Francho said:

Females may stick around the nest, but not for too long.  Males are the ones that guard the nest until the fry are free swimming.

If I recall from @Paul Roberts video, it's only a day or so.

[Captain America]

Shouldn't we do what is best for the bass population? Just because tournament pressure on smallmouth beds "hasnt devastated" the population, doesn't mean its good. I'm glad the MDNR is more concerned with the fish than they are with with bass fisherman. That is how we are going to preserve our resources for future generations.

[slonezp]

If you regulate the hell out of the industry, people will look elsewhere to fish or might take up poaching for a hobby

[Scarborough817]

so what you're telling me is that if im throwing a smallmouth swimbait it should be 5" or 9"

[Captain America]

4 hours ago, slonezp said:

If you regulate the hell out of the industry, people will look elsewhere to fish or might take up poaching for a hobby

Not the case in Canada. Heavily regulated? Check. Destination Fisheries? Check. The penalties for poaching are too high for most people to risk it. Obviously, a few knuckeheads will still poach, but less. And whats a few idiots doing something illegal compared to everyone doing the same exact thing if it were legal? That's the purpose of a law. 

[Scarborough817]

25 minutes ago, Captain America said:

Not the case in Canada. Heavily regulated? Check. Destination Fisheries? Check. The penalties for poaching are too high for most people to risk it. Obviously, a few knuckeheads will still poach, but less. And whats a few idiots doing something illegal compared to everyone doing the same exact thing if it were legal? That's the purpose of a law. 

Do not go by Canada's fishing laws, specifically in Ontario they are ridiculous and extremely outdated. We have a bass season that ranges from the beginning of july to the end of november, that leaves basically 3 months where the water is thawed that we are unable to fish. Their reasoning behind this is because of the spawn. To me that just shows a lack of knowledge about what actually happens under the water. catching a fish off of a bed and releasing it doesnt mean all of the eggs are eaten. This week there is news that they are also trying to regulate it even more, including saying that the ministry can just tell everyone they cant fish somewhere for an extended period of time. Not to mention that there are basically no offices to enforce anything in Ontario. there are 3622 employees in Ontario, While the whole MnR has a budget of 731 million dollars. 

 

Personally i would much rather have the regulations of MI, NY, IL all of which are parallel if not further north than parts of Ontario

[Captain America]

21 minutes ago, Scarborough817 said:

Do not go by Canada's fishing laws, specifically in Ontario they are ridiculous and extremely outdated. We have a bass season that ranges from the beginning of july to the end of november, that leaves basically 3 months where the water is thawed that they are saying is for the spawn. To me that just shows a lack of knowledge about what actually happens under the water.This week there is news that they are also trying to regulate it even more, including saying that the ministry can just tell everyone they cant fish somewhere for an extended period of time. Not to mention that there are basically no offices to enforce anything in Ontario. there are 3622 employees in Ontario, While the whole MnR has a budget of 731 million dollars. 

 

Personally i would much rather have the regulations of MI, NY, IL all of which are parallel if not further north than parts of Ontario

Haha that sounds bad. Last time I was up there I was told the OPP can come into your cabin to see if you kept too many fish. Most of my experience comes from Manitoba fishing for Cats, and the Ontario part of Lake of the Woods in August. I wasn't saying it was ideal, just that it doesn't necessarily keep people away/encourage them to poach. I AM pretty pleased with the Michigan DNR most of the time. They have a good deal of regulation to do before I would be upset.

[Scarborough817]

8 minutes ago, Captain America said:

Haha that sounds bad. Last time I was up there I was told the OPP can come into your cabin to see if you kept too many fish. Most of my experience comes from Manitoba fishing for Cats, and the Ontario part of Lake of the Woods in August. I wasn't saying it was ideal, just that it doesn't necessarily keep people away/encourage them to poach. I AM pretty pleased with the Michigan DNR most of the time.

i think it encourages it more so, the regulations are basically there because the province doesn't want to have to pay for officers to patrol. They think if they have a ton of rules people will just follow them plus that way they can have a higher pay for anyone who is working. Obviously i can tell you it is completely backwards and doesn't actually work. there is a lake by my house where every single day regardless of season there are people who throw everything they catch into a bucket. I  will guarantee it is not the only on either, Lake Ontario has a salmon run that happens around the middle to end of October which is a closed season and illegal to fish, yet it still gets fished because no one gets ticketed.

[Captain America]

3 minutes ago, Scarborough817 said:

i think it encourages it more so, the regulations are basically there because the province doesn't want to have to pay for officers to patrol. They think if they have a ton of rules people will just follow them plus that way they can have a higher pay for anyone who is working. Obviously i can tell you it is completely backwards and doesn't actually work. there is a lake by my house where every single day regardless of season there are people who throw everything they catch into a bucket. I  will guarantee it is not the only on either, Lake Ontario has a salmon run that happens around the middle to end of October which is a closed season and illegal to fish, yet it still gets fished because no one gets ticketed.

Interesting. Scratch that about Canada, or Ontario at least. Point is, I believe we should protect Michigan's spawning bass from tournaments... lol 

[slonezp]

On 2/2/2018 at 12:40 PM, MickD said:

That is exactly what I meant about displacing.  "Sarcasm alert" regarding "comfort crawdads."  Also, I may be crazy but I'm not stupid.

Nobody is accusing you of being either. If anybody should be regulating a spawn tournament, it should be the club(s) themselves. Anglers will then be able to choose whether or not they want to participate. I do not agree with mandating more laws based on the opinions of a few squeaky wheels.

[12poundbass]

1 hour ago, Captain America said:

Interesting. Scratch that about Canada, or Ontario at least. Point is, I believe we should protect Michigan's spawning bass from tournaments... lol 

The law just changed here in Michigan a couple years ago. 

 

It used to be catch and release was the third Saturday in April and catch in keep third Saturday in May. Now it's catch and release all year long and catch and keep is still the same. I'm no smallmouth expert but I think they're done with the spawn before the end of May (I think). Large mouth it's close to that time. 

 

Either way as far as Michigan goes there's no shortage of good bass fishing and the laws really haven't changed for the most part.

[MickD]

Bass in MI on Lake St Clair, Huron, MI, Saginaw Bay, and many northern lakes are not done spawning by June 1.  The law for the part of the year that is not in the normal bass season is catch and immediate release.  Leaving the rules on tourneys to the tourney organizers/clubs is, IMHO, an invitation to disaster. As the scientists, not the "squeaky wheels," stated.  We had scientists from Ohio, MI, and Ontario testify, and they were all in agreement.   The question on MI came from a proposal by a "club."

[J Francho]

According to scientists in NY, when they were deciding to open catch and immediate release fishing during the off season (December through the 3rd Saturday in June) said that 70-75% of the bass population do not attempt to spawn.  Stands to argue if you're only targeting beds, then you are carving out three quarters of your target.

[TnRiver46]

In East TN the food is so abundant the population can easily withstand anything that has to do with a rod and reel. They say in most cases, a certain percentage of fish populations (usually well over half) die every year. Drought and flood are the main enemies of the fish and thousands of them die every year regardless of how many get hooked with a rod and reel. You could legally catch an 18" smallmouth off a bed in the spring and use it for live bait. No one actually does that but you could do it legally and our population of smallmouth is extremely healthy. Once again, wildlife survival is all about food. I personally never bass fish beds on purpose because I don't fish tournaments and hungry fish are way more fun than breeding fish

[Oregon Native]

It still saddens me that out in Oregon on the Columbia...unless they've changed it again you can catch and eat or throw on bank if you want for smalies.  When I worked at a couple fishing stores the salmon/trout fishermen (not all) thought bass were trash and were to be disposed of accordingly!!  So nice to live out here where life is a 180.

[MickD]

3 hours ago, Oregon Native said:

It still saddens me that out in Oregon on the Columbia...unless they've changed it again you can catch and eat or throw on bank if you want for smalies.  When I worked at a couple fishing stores the salmon/trout fishermen (not all) thought bass were trash and were to be disposed of accordingly!!  So nice to live out here where life is a 180.

Probably because the bass prey on salmon eggs or fry?  And they are prioritizing their salmon/trout fishery first?  Or at least that is the perception?  On Lake St Clair their are fishermen who kill muskies and throw them back no matter what size they are because the fishermen blame muskies for hurting the perch population.