FG Knot Issues

[Notorious B.E.N.]

I decided to try out some P-Line TCB 8 braid and am having trouble with the FG knot.  However, I can fairly easily pull the Seagur Invizx line that I am using for leader material out when I finish it up.  

 

The braid is 40 lbs. test and the leader material is 15 lbs. test.

 

I've watched the Salt Strong video again and again to try and figure out what I'm doing wrong.

 

Anyone have any ideas?

[Fishing_FF]

I could not get the FG knot to hold with Seagaur Invixz or Blue Label. I tried both with the 2 different mainlines, PowerPro Original and Slick8. 

 

Luke from Salt Strong in the comments on the main page acknowledges there is a problem with the FG knot when using a soft or slick line because the mainline needs to dig (cut into) the leader. Unfortunately when Luke did the knot test, it was under perfect conditions for the FG knot. He was using 10lbs PowerPro Original (not a slick mainline) with 20lbs Ande Monofilament Leader (a thick, stiffer line). 

 

I replicated the Salt Strong test with the mainlines and leaders I use (PP and PP S8 with Seaguar and Yo-Zuri). I tied various mainline to leader knots to hooks attached to a scale just like the video. It took a while to complete as I did 5-10 of each depending on how close the results were until I had winners for each combo of mainline to leader. 

[LionHeart]

I use the FG a lot.  Here is the secret.  You have to pull the knot tight, and I mean real tight before you trim the tag end of your leader.  Just grabbing the line and leader and pulling hard with your hands ain't enough.  

Before I trim the tag end of my main line or leader line, I measure out the length I want my leader to be and tie on a lure with a heavy hook.  At this point I'm all done except the tag ends have not been cut.  Now I hook the lure around something heavy in my garage and walk to my driveway with the rod.  I then wrap some of my braid main line around a screw driver handle or something that the braid won't shred, and give a good solid pull.  

 

Whatever you want the knot breaking strength to be, that's how hard you need to pull before you cut the tag ends.  This knot slips as it cinches down. Make sure to wet the knot first also.  This method takes a few extra minutes but is absolutely worth it in my experience.  I hope this made sense.  I probably made it sound more confusing than it is.  

 

Bottom line is, pull the knot super tight before you trim the tags.  My 5 foot leader will stretch to nearly 6 feet after I'm finished pulling.  But the knot will be solid.  I've been using J Braid 4 strand 50 lb. And Seagur Red Label 20 lb.

[CroakHunter]

Pull your lines super tight and make sure your half hitches are really tight as well. Like stayed above the braid makes a Chinese finger trap of you will, trapping the leader inside which means it slips until in gets tight, but Then wont become loose once tied correctly. Another thing I do is wrap more times. For 15-30 braid I wrap 30 times, for 50-65lb I wrap 26-28. Yes it lengthens thebknkt but doesn't make it more bulky.

[Paul Roberts]

I've had no issues. Very small diam lines gave some trouble initially but also revealed the issue. Agree with CH above here: Keep all three line ends TIGHT as you make the knot. That's all I've had to do. No issues with more slick braids either including J-Braid 8 and even Gliss. Just a GREAT knot. 

[Sam]

After you tighten the line, use some fast drying super glue and apply it to the knot.

 

Not much. Just enough to cover the knot.

 

The knot ain't going anywhere after that.

[MassYak85]

If it is slipping out it just means you either didn't do your wraps tight enough or you did not cinch up the knot enough when you finished the wraps. Also, I don't know if this would have any effect because I have not used that line, but if the P-line braid had a really slick coating on top of being 8 carrier, it might not bite as much into the leader. Just speculation, I wouldn't think it would be an issue. 

[whiskeypete]

I was in the same boat as you when i first used the knot. As everyone stated, tension is key. Check out "tackle advisors" video on youtube. He runs the line through his nails to get rid of any way, build up, twist, etc. in the line before he starts. Then he uses a method where the lines do not have to be tense because he is constantly pulling the line back while pinched between his fingers.

 

Also, a rizutto finish as opposed to a finish with multiple half hitches, has helped me tremendously. Whenever i used opposing half hitches, the knots eventually opened up after running through the guides. Not to say it doesn't work for some people, but i found the design of the rizutto finish naturally complements the knot since it tensions itself onto the FG as the line is loaded up. See "Hitchless FG Knots with Rizutto Finish" on youtube. The quality of his video is horrible, so watch it to get an understanding, then find another video on the rizutto concept. 

 

Lastly, some people might think it's cheesy, but i have a knot assist 2.0 which has helped tremendously with the lighter lines. Obviously with light lines, you want to avoid too much tension which will make the line weaker if stretched beyond it's limits. It is not necessary, but it has helped me with efficiency. 

 

Hope that helps!

[NHBull]

If you are using 22 wraps, cinch hard at the 1/2 way point and again at the end...often, if you only cinch at the end, the first few wraps don't cut in.......and a dab of super-glue is your friend

[Paul Roberts]

The "Rizutto Finish" is the way to bowstring serving has been finished for... hundreds of years. I've served quite a few bowstrings over the years but didn't think of using it for the FG. Doh! Thanks for the kick in the right end.

 

[WRB]

If you can't tie a knot under fishing conditions why use it? FC offers nothing for bass fishing as a leader.

Tom

[LionHeart]

2 hours ago, whiskeypete said:

I was in the same boat as you when i first used the knot. As everyone stated, tension is key. Check out "tackle advisors" video on youtube. He runs the line through his nails to get rid of any way, build up, twist, etc. in the line before he starts. Then he uses a method where the lines do not have to be tense because he is constantly pulling the line back while pinched between his fingers.

 

Also, a rizutto finish as opposed to a finish with multiple half hitches, has helped me tremendously. Whenever i used opposing half hitches, the knots eventually opened up after running through the guides. Not to say it doesn't work for some people, but i found the design of the rizutto finish naturally complements the knot since it tensions itself onto the FG as the line is loaded up. See "Hitchless FG Knots with Rizutto Finish" on youtube. The quality of his video is horrible, so watch it to get an understanding, then find another video on the rizutto concept. 

 

Lastly, some people might think it's cheesy, but i have a knot assist 2.0 which has helped tremendously with the lighter lines. Obviously with light lines, you want to avoid too much tension which will make the line weaker if stretched beyond it's limits. It is not necessary, but it has helped me with efficiency. 

 

Hope that helps!

Never heard of the rizzuto but just watched the video.  Really good looking finish knot. Definitely trying it.

[MassYak85]

52 minutes ago, WRB said:

FC offers nothing for bass fishing as a leader.

Tom

Abrasion resistance? 

[LionHeart]

59 minutes ago, WRB said:

If you can't tie a knot under fishing conditions why use it? FC offers nothing for bass fishing as a leader.

Tom

Pretty bold statement.  Gotta disagree with you on that one.

[CroakHunter]

16 minutes ago, MassYak85 said:

Abrasion resistance? 

 

7 minutes ago, LionHeart said:

Pretty bold statement.  Gotta disagree with you on that one.

Copoly and mono have the same if not better abrasion resistance as fluoro. A quality mono is much thinner than fc. Let's not even get started on knot strength/knot choice. Fc has handling issues as well. Fluoro also has more stretch than any other quality line (no matter what the pros say)

[MassYak85]

Just now, CroakHunter said:

 

Copoly and mono have the same if not better abrasion resistance as fluoro. A quality mono is much thinner than fc. Let's not even get started on knot strength/knot choice. Fc has handling issues as well. Fluoro also has more stretch than any other line (no matter what the pros say)

Oh if we want to talk fluoro vs mono then I won't disagree, as leader material I don't think it makes much difference. I use heavy mono leaders when Ice Fishing and it's plenty abrasion resistant for sure. I took Tom's comment more as a shot at using any leaders when bass fishing since the knot can apply to either mono or fluoro.  

[CroakHunter]

1 minute ago, MassYak85 said:

Oh if we want to talk fluoro vs mono then I won't disagree, as leader material I don't think it makes much difference. I use heavy mono leaders when Ice Fishing and it's plenty abrasion resistant for sure. I took Tom's comment more as a shot at using any leaders when bass fishing since the knot can apply to either mono or fluoro.  

Lol I took it the other way.

[LionHeart]

I took it as a comment against leaders in general.  Should have read it more carefully.

[livin2fish]

Have had great FG knots recently with 15 lb Fins Windtamer braid to 8 lb and 12 lb copoly, and also with KastKing 15 lb 4 strand braid to 8 lb and 12 lb copoly.  The Rizzuto finish saved me from scrapping the FG knot.  One thing that goes against most everything I have seen, is making a really strong knot by making fewer wraps, not more wraps.  When making up to 20 wraps I found that only the first 1/4 of the wraps cinched up really tight.  The remainder served no purpose.  Settling on 12 wraps up and down makes for me the strongest knot and the one least likely to unravel and/or pull loose.  Grandson caught a 30 lb. catfish on the Fins 15 lb to 12 lb copoly with the FG knot

[Team9nine]

BR readers beware! Saturday night and the fluoro bashing has begun...  

[24/7LMB]

8 hours ago, Paul Roberts said:

I've had no issues. Very small diam lines gave some trouble initially but also revealed the issue. Agree with CH above here: Keep all three line ends TIGHT as you make the knot. That's all I've had to do. No issues with more slick braids either including J-Braid 8 and even Gliss. Just a GREAT knot. 

Paul, how do you like the JB 8?  Ive got JB 4 50lb and have not spooled it up yet.  

[whiskeypete]

3 hours ago, livin2fish said:

Have had great FG knots recently with 15 lb Fins Windtamer braid to 8 lb and 12 lb copoly, and also with KastKing 15 lb 4 strand braid to 8 lb and 12 lb copoly.  The Rizzuto finish saved me from scrapping the FG knot.  One thing that goes against most everything I have seen, is making a really strong knot by making fewer wraps, not more wraps.  When making up to 20 wraps I found that only the first 1/4 of the wraps cinched up really tight.  The remainder served no purpose.  Settling on 12 wraps up and down makes for me the strongest knot and the one least likely to unravel and/or pull loose.  Grandson caught a 30 lb. catfish on the Fins 15 lb to 12 lb copoly with the FG knot

Totally agree, I think the more wraps is just to over compensate for a lack of tension. I forgot where I read it, but it was mentioned that you will notice that the beginning of the knot does not pinch or lock down when tensioning if there are too many wraps basically making it less effective and uniform. When tensioning you should notice the line smoothing out and almost becoming translucent. 

[MickD]

All of the above is true, and you need to use most all of the tips for a reliable FG.  My only reservation with the tips would be to note that if you don't have a sound knot with the mono getting deformed by the braid, super glue isn't going to cure it,  You have to accomplish that first.  Then the super glue can help by  keeping the half hitches from loosening.  If they loosen, all it lost.

 

It's such a temperamental knot that I only use it when I have to have its small size.

[livin2fish]

The FG for me, 2 half hitches are needed before the knot is pulled tight (initially pulling on the braid tag and braid mainline together).  Then the Rizzuto knot.  To finish the Rizzuto, hold the braid tag in teeth while cinching the Rizzuto down tight against the half hitches.  Re. slick lines, the only one I have tried is Gliss 40 lb.. Slim beauty worked "for it".  FG did not.  If I cannot tie the knot strong enough using just my hands, I'll use a different knot.  Doubtful if slim beauty works well with micro guides. 

One other thing, if braid line and leader do not have some tension on them while tying, it is difficult to end up with a good FG knot.

[Paul Roberts]

13 hours ago, 24/7LMB said:

Paul, how do you like the JB 8?  Ive got JB 4 50lb and have not spooled it up yet.  

It's now my GoTo braid. I haven't tried them all by any means, but it's a good step up from the SpiderWire Stealth I've used for some time -which has been a good usable line. J-B is very smooth, much finer in diameter (per break rating -haven't tested it though), so far isn't fraying much, holding its color, and the price is competitive. I assume the "breakthrough" of 8-carrier braids came from Sufix 832, as it's gotten such great reviews. Everyone has been following suit. J-Braid is the only I've tried. Very happy with it.