Enormous size differences.

[MIbassyaker]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

I doubt that our LMB record will ever be broken but there's that chance (hence my screen name).

 

There's a lake north of Big Pine which as you've mentioned is where the current record came from. In this lake about 12 years years ago my wife's uncle said the DNR shocked the lake and there was a new state record in there. Fast forward about 8 years and I was at the county park of this lake doing a job and I spoke to the Ranger and he said that he had heard the same story except that it came out of the lakes little brother just north but the two were connected. The DNR officer in my area has said he's heard the same thing. My son and his daughter are in the same class so I'm going to make it a point to cross paths with him and "interrogate" him. Lol

 

Obviously genetics play a huge role in size, but so does what we eat and our environment also play a role. Anybody ever sat in a classic car from the 30's 40' s 50's? People were smaller then. Over time we've grown A ton, genetics play A role, but our ever changing environment play A role too. A wise man on here told me his PB LMB from Michigan was 7 lbs and came from a lake that was stocked with trout. 7 pounds in Michigan is a giant. That's about the same as an 11-12lb down south. Coincidence?

 

 

 

I believe I know the "little brother" you're talking about, and if it's what I'm thinking, I have fished it a couple times a summer for the last few years -- I've not ever seen another person on it when I have been there, so I've been...um, keeping quiet about it.

[12poundbass]

56 minutes ago, MIbassyaker said:

I believe I know the "little brother" you're talking about, and if it's what I'm thinking, I have fished it a couple times a summer for the last few years -- I've not ever seen another person on it when I have been there, so I've been...um, keeping quiet about it.

PM inbound

[fishnkamp]

It was Trout Unlimited in California that helped got the trout stocking restarted in certain lakes that had supported the fishery years ago.

Pay attention to the records falling many of those BIG bass records lately are Alabama strain Kentucky Spots. Those fish are hybrids and really grow fast under the right conditions. My PB is just over 7, caught in Tennessee. It is ababy compared to the ones caught out in Cali.

[Catt]

3 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

Anybody ever sat in a classic car from the 30's 40' s 50's? People were smaller then.

 

Funniest thing I've even read ?

 

I was born in 1951!

 

People were not smaller!

 

Cars from the 40s - 70s were huge inside & out!

 

[WRB]

58 minutes ago, fishnkamp said:

It was Trout Unlimited in California that helped got the trout stocking restarted in certain lakes that had supported the fishery years ago.

Pay attention to the records falling many of those BIG bass records lately are Alabama strain Kentucky Spots. Those fish are hybrids and really grow fast under the right conditions. My PB is just over 7, caught in Tennessee. It is ababy compared to the ones caught out in Cali.

The big spotted bass are Alabama /Southern spots not a hybrid, Kentucky /Northern Spots are a separate recognized specie of Black bass that rarely grow over 4 lbs. in 1939 Kentucky Spotted bass were introduced to California at Fraint Dam/ lake Millerton in Central CA, never weighing over 2 lbs.  Alabama Spotted bass were introduced in the 60's at Lake Perris in SoCal and the 1st record CA Spot caught there. Alabama Spots were then introduced in the 70's to several CA lakes, the next record came from Pine Flat lake on the Kings River in central CA. Bullards Bar in NorCal currently holds the world record Spotted bass, several other NorCal foothill lakes have potential record Spots.

Tom

[12poundbass]

34 minutes ago, Catt said:

Funniest thing I've even read ?

 

I was born in 1951!

 

People were not smaller!

 

Cars from the 40s - 70s were huge inside & out!

 

Average height of a male in 1870 was 5'5" and increased to 5'10" by 1970 where it has stalled out. 

You're right the cars from the 50's were some of the biggest, my apologies for being off on my decades. The distance between the steering wheel and seat has increased as humans got bigger. If you watch the Barret Jackson auto auction starting tomorrow you'll hear them say that a ton over the next week. 

 

Maybe it was between the 1900's and 1940's ?

[WRB]

If bass are getting bigger how do you explain the Perry 32" 22 1/4 lb world record caught in 1932 if everything was smaller back in those days.

Tom

[12poundbass]

15 minutes ago, WRB said:

If bass are getting bigger how do you explain the Perry 32" 22 1/4 lb world record caught in 1932 if everything was smaller back in those days.

Tom

If you're referring to my comment, I think you might have misinterpreted what I said. I'm not implying bass are getting bigger. What I was implying is that it's not just genetics that determine the size (in my opinion anyways). Genetics is the main factor yes but (again in my opinion) diet and environment play a factor as well.

[geo g]

20 minutes ago, WRB said:

If bass are getting bigger how do you explain the Perry 32" 22 1/4 lb world record caught in 1932 if everything was smaller back in those days.

Tom

It was most likely not even a Florida Stain Bass since they are not naturally found that far north, and in 1932 no one was transporting bass.  If they caught it they killed it!

[WRB]

21 minutes ago, geo g said:

It was most likely not even a Florida Stain Bass since they are not naturally found that far north, and in 1932 no one was transporting bass.  If they caught it they killed it!

Dr Henshaw transported bass from Minnisota to Arizona in 1890 by rail and wagons to introduce Black bass west of the Rocky Mountains. Anglers have been transporting fish from one place to another for centuries. So do you believe the Perry bass was a northern strain? 

Tom

30 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

If you're referring to my comment, I think you might have misinterpreted what I said. I'm not implying bass are getting bigger. What I was implying is that it's not just genetics that determine the size (in my opinion anyways). Genetics is the main factor yes but (again in my opinion) diet and environment play a factor as well.

So explain to me California's state record northern LMB from transplanted from Minnisota and was 14 lbs 7 oz caught in 1947. The record stood until Florida strain LMB were introduced in 1959 and 15 lb bass started showing up in 1968 increasing every size year until 1973 when they topped 20 lbs. Same lakes with the same ecosystems, same prey source, same climate that could only produce NLMB in the 12 lb class.

It's all about genetics.

Tom

[geo g]

5 minutes ago, WRB said:

Dr Henshaw transported bass from Minnisota to Arizona in 1890 by rail and wagons to introduce Black bass west of the Rocky Mountains. Anglers have been transporting fish from one place to another for centuries. So do you believe the Perry bass was a northern strain? 

Tom

There is no way to tell for sure, but its at least a 50/50 shot its not a Florida Strain.  

 

[WRB]

19 minutes ago, geo g said:

There is no way to tell for sure, but its at least a 50/50 shot its not a Florida Strain.  

 

The Perry is 6 lbs heavier then any northern strain LMB ever caught. 16 lbs 4 oz is the largest known northern state record NLMB, it's a Florida strain or it doesn't exist.

Tom

 

[burrows]

4 hours ago, Catt said:

Funniest thing I've even read ?

 

I was born in 1951!

 

People were not smaller!

 

Cars from the 40s - 70s were huge inside & out!

 

Ppl were not smaller they were not as fat. I think that's a fact.

[geo g]

1 hour ago, WRB said:

The Perry is 6 lbs heavier then any northern strain LMB ever caught. 16 lbs 4 oz is the largest known northern state record NLMB, it's a Florida strain or it doesn't exist.

Tom

 

You have obviously never heard of a 7'6" Chinese basketball player.  Never say never my friend!

 

[geo g]

There have been giants all throughout history, as far back as ancient biblical times, in all life forms.  It just happens, although rare.

[12poundbass]

11 hours ago, WRB said:

Dr Henshaw transported bass from Minnisota to Arizona in 1890 by rail and wagons to introduce Black bass west of the Rocky Mountains. Anglers have been transporting fish from one place to another for centuries. So do you believe the Perry bass was a northern strain? 

Tom

So explain to me California's state record northern LMB from transplanted from Minnisota and was 14 lbs 7 oz caught in 1947. The record stood until Florida strain LMB were introduced in 1959 and 15 lb bass started showing up in 1968 increasing every size year until 1973 when they topped 20 lbs. Same lakes with the same ecosystems, same prey source, same climate that could only produce NLMB in the 12 lb class.

It's all about genetics.

Tom

If it's all genetics then why are we seeing these smallmouth bass that look like they've swallowed a bowling ball, what seems like more frequently since the gobie came around? The world record hasn't been broken and to my knowledge is a pretty old record as well. But it seems like the addition of a new food source has changed things a bit in certain areas. 

 

Another example is LaPerla ranch in Texas with Dr. Gary from Techomonte. He selected the fresh water lobster (I believe) to help these bass put on weight quicker. Obviously genetics and selective breeding, habitat and location (environment) play a role as well. Dr. Gary has made a name for himself producing some of the biggest bucks on the planet. He's done this by taking the biggest bucks (genetics) selectively breeding them, and by giving them the best minerals and feed (diet) and the best land with the least amount of pressure, stress, and predation possible (environment). 

 

Again I don't argue that genetics plays a major role in fact I'll take a shot in the dark and say it plays well over 80%. I'm not a smart man but I have enough brain to know that without good genes you won't develop much. On the flip side you can have the best genes, but if you have a poor diet will little protein or fat chances dwindle for producing a world record bass. Just like if you take a lake (environment) that is over populated, not the best water, and many other factors you chances for producing a world record bass does it not? 

 

Again I'm no expert and I'm going by what I've read over the years.

[12poundbass]

10 hours ago, Burro said:

Ppl were not smaller they were not as fat. I think that's a fact.

People were in fact smaller. The average height of humans continued to grow until it topped out in the 1970's. Like I said before between 1870 and 1970 the average height of a human male grew 5 inches. That's quite a bit. 

@WRB @Catt maybe you guys are thinking I'm implying that you can grow a world record bass from a Northern strain? I don't think it's possible at all. I don't deny for one second the genetics from a Florida strain LMB produce much bigger fish. 

[Catt]

@12poundbass

The food source without genetics will definitely fatten bass but it max out. Only an extremely small percentage with reach into the "teens" & a smaller percentage will reach the upper teens.

 

The bass in Lake X at the LaPerla ranch were feed prawns (a type of shrimp).

 

Do some research into Gorilla/Tiger/F1 bass, they had bass reach 14 lbs in 7 years feeding them only bluegill.

[MTBassin]

It's not so much that the bass are keying in on those big swimbaits because they want to eat a trout and that they are used to trout as a food source. Its more because it is a big slow moving bait that just happens to be painted in a color pattern that catches their attention and looks like an easy meal. 

[12poundbass]

6 minutes ago, Catt said:

@12poundbass

The food source without genetics will definitely fatten bass but it max out. Only an extremely small percentage with reach into the "teens" & a smaller percentage will reach the upper teens.

 

The bass in Lake X at the LaPerla ranch were feed prawns (a type of shrimp).

 

Do some research into Gorilla/Tiger/F1 bass, they had bass reach 14 lbs in 7 years feeding them only bluegill.

I agree that poor genetics and perfect food will only get you so far. Just like if you had the perfect environment and food source and poor genes you're only going to get so far. If you add perfect genes, perfect food source, and perfect environment you greatly increase your odds of producing a truly gigantic bass.

 

If environment didn't play a role in the size of a bass then I could quite possibly take a gorilla/tiger/F1 and put up here in Michigan and potentially grow a world record bass correct? 

 

I've seen you mention these bass a few times now. You've peaked my interest and I will for sure look these up.

[BassNJake]

Whats interesting is the hybrids that are a cross between florida and northern strains that are being caught.

 

http://nooga.com/164697/twra-reveals-chickamauga-lake-bass-dna-analysis/

 

These are the giants that are being caught at Chickamauga.

Shock studies and tourney testing is showing that only hybrids and backcrosses are being caught and no pure florida strain.

 

So it may be possible that if these hybrids get introduced into northern waters those fish may also grow bigger.

 

In the 2012 lakewide DNA analysis, biologists found 7.8 percent northern bass, 2.3 percent Florida bass, 15 percent hybrids and 75 percent backcross. That means 92 percent of all the bass in Chickamauga Lake carry at least some Florida bass genes.

 

In 2013, when Jolley and his crew collected DNA samples exclusively from bass weighing more than 8 pounds, they found no pure northern bass and no pure Florida bass. However, 75 percent of the big bass were hybrids, and 25 percent were backcross.

[Team9nine]

22 minutes ago, BassNJake said:

Whats interesting is the hybrids that are a cross between florida and northern strains that are being caught.

 

http://nooga.com/164697/twra-reveals-chickamauga-lake-bass-dna-analysis/

 

These are the giants that are being caught at Chickamauga.

Shock studies and tourney testing is showing that only hybrids and backcrosses are being caught and no pure florida strain.

 

So it may be possible that if these hybrids get introduced into northern waters those fish may also grow bigger.

It's referred to as "hybrid vigor" or more technically as heterosis.

 

Here's a good overview on this whole big bass variables subject written recently by Steve Quinn:

 

http://www.in-fisherman.com/bass/factors-giant-bass/

 

[J Francho]

Hybrid vigor..good term, T9!  We would see this in live bearer crosses and in egg laying danios.

[deep]

1 hour ago, MTBassin said:

I just watched a video on the TacticalBassin YT channel and  Matt Allen said that the main lake he fishes in California (Clear Lake) in California has very very few trout in it. It's not so much that the bass are keying in on those big swimbaits because they want to eat a trout and that they are used to trout as a food source. Its more because it is a big slow moving bait that just happens to be painted in a color pattern that catches their attention and looks like an easy meal. 

 

Clear lake has hitch.

[Fishingmickey]

23 hours ago, Smalls said:

It’s on my short list for this year!

 

So naturally, the next question is... how would transplants of FLMB, with their genetics, fair in MI? 

 

I wouldn’t expect them to reach such great weights here, but I imagine we might get a few more pounds out of some of them, no?

Smalls,

     They just don't have the growing season in Michigan that they have in Florida, California or Texas. The Florida strain largemouth is the other side of the coin. It will not fair well in Michigan.

FM