Shimano reel oil vs Tsi 321?

[Riazuli]

Hey everyone, I was wondering your thoughts on Shimano reel oil vs Tsi 321 (prefer this over 301 because of the solvent in 301).  The reel is no longer under warranty, so that isn't a concern.  Has anyone that has compared these two noticed any significant difference between them?  I'm happy with the shimano oil, but if I can increase cast distance with the 321 then I'm all for it.  I know the 321 is lower viscosity (around 20 vs 60 for Shimano at room temp), but not sure how this plays out in actual performance.  Any info is appreciated!

[Angry John]

It's a resistance thing and the weight of the oil is less important than having clean not overly lubed bearings IMO.  Some companies reels have some heavier oil and seems a little grease mixed in when new.  I think this is done to make them last for people who don't take care of their gear.  "This is my opinion"

[J Francho]

You might get a little more free spool time with TSI, at the bench, but on the water, the difference is going to be negligible.  Either product will treat your bearings well.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Ya there's no magic in any of these lubricants.  A quality product in the proper application on clean parts are all you need. Even if you could remove resistance 100%, which you obviously can't, a bait of a given mass and shape will only fly just so far. Then you have to able to set the hook. Don't overthink this stuff. 

[Riazuli]

Thanks, guys.  I'll stick with the Shimano oil.  It's for Shimano reels, afterall. Good luck out there!  

[Yumeya]

I been thinking about trying 321 myself, from what I have read it stays and lasts longer then any other oil and the tests that have been done are excellent.

 

 

[The Bassman]

Been using TSI 321 for a while now and have no complaints. I bought a 4 oz. bottle for around 18.00 bucks that should last a very long time. I'm not sure about all of its claims but it does seem to last a good while in my spool bearings.

[Riazuli]

Lasting longer is definitely something I would consider switching over for.  I wonder if there are any comparison reviews out there - checking now!

[Riazuli]

I've found reports of it being longer lasting, and multiple reports of free spool times increasing triple fold...that pretty much sold it for me, so I ordered some.  I know a lot of guys say free spool tests don't mean anything in terms of casting performance, but in the simple case of physics, longer free spool = less friction = greater performance.  Whether that translates to easier casting on lighter lures or a few feet consistently on the cast, it's a performance gain.  Sometimes, a few feet is all you need to reach that nook you're looking to hit.  It's worth a shot!  I'll be doing some tests of my own and reporting back.  Btw, I'll be using this on steel bearings, and sticking with steel.  I read that TSI 321 doesn't really add any noticeable improvement to ceramics, as it's main feature is that it soaks into metal. 

 

Edit: I got a report of someone saying it has added improvement to their ceramic bearings.  I guess that makes sense with the lower viscosity causing less drag and making them near dry performance as the guy stated.  The oil won't soak in to ceramic but I can see how it can help with quieting without losing too much performance.  I think also, though, with ceramics recommended to run dry that you technically are "losing" some performance, but gaining in other ways. 

[iabass8]

There's nothing special or exotic about Shimano bantam oil. If you want to impress your self /w free spool, use the lowest viscosity oil after cleaning them. Hedgehog alchemy ultra light oil is my favorite. REM oil is also very good but generally needs to be reapplied every 5-6 months if you use the reel regularly. 

 

You can make 1$ RC car bearings in the shimano spool size free spool for close to that of an ABEC 7 ceramic. It isn't difficult to do. It just requires a lot of cleaning. They are tick poor (the RC car bearings) when it comes to casting.  My TDZ R+ spools can free spool for well over a minute. I have SV spools that free spool for 5-6 seconds tops /w the same bearings. The SV spool casts better. Free spool is just a pretty dress and is not indicative of casting performance. Again, you can make the crappiest bearings that come in 10 packs of plastics tubes free spool forever. They won't cast worth a darn. It’s much, much more important to have a clean,smooth bearing.

[Riazuli]

 

There's nothing special or exotic about Shimano bantam oil. If you want to impress your self /w free spool, use the lowest viscosity oil after cleaning them. Hedgehog alchemy ultra light oil is my favorite. REM oil is also very good but generally needs to be reapplied every 5-6 months if you use the reel regularly. 

 

You can make 1$ RC car bearings in the shimano spool size free spool for close to that of an ABEC 7 ceramic. It isn't difficult to do. It just requires a lot of cleaning. They are tick poor (the RC car bearings) when it comes to casting.  My TDZ R+ spools can free spool for well over a minute. I have SV spools that free spool for 5-6 seconds tops /w the same bearings. The SV spool casts better. Free spool is just a pretty dress and is not indicative of casting performance. Again, you can make the crappiest bearings that come in 10 packs of plastics tubes free spool forever. They won't cast worth a darn. It’s much, much more important to have a clean,smooth bearing.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but the SV air brakes are preventing the spool from freespool at the lower speeds compared to a cast, so that isn't a proportional comparison (in regard to free spooling for only several seconds, but casting better).  Again, I realize this isn't necessarily a major performance breakthrough here, but friction is friction, and that will translate in some way or another (unless you have factors like the SV air brakes in play, which doesn't exactly change the issue of friction in a free spool, but rather eliminate the ability to use it as an effective comparison).   

[iabass8]

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but the SV air brakes are preventing the spool from freespool at the lower speeds compared to a cast, so that isn't a proportional comparison (in regard to free spooling for only several seconds, but casting better).  Again, I realize this isn't necessarily a major performance breakthrough here, but friction is friction, and that will translate in some way or another (unless you have factors like the SV air brakes in play, which doesn't exactly change the issue of friction in a free spool, but rather eliminate the ability to use it as an effective comparison).   

The sv spool is used in the same reel as the type r+.

 

air brakes work in different ways on different spools. They arent a blanket system. Stiff vs soft inductor springs, rotor size, etc.

 

by saying free spool is indicitive (or ancontributing factor) to casting performance is the same as saying an RC car bearing that free spools for 60 seconds is the equivilant of a zpi that free spools for the same 60 secondS. The stock bearing on a g1 will spin for maybe 3-4 seconds. The rc car bearing will spin 1xs that. Guess which cast better and consistently on the same spool? 

 

ive put the same zpis on an HLC spool and the cheap bearings from an rc car vendor in an hlc. Both free spool forever. Guess which actually was able to cast with any consistancy?

 

if you want that, pop the shields off the spool bearings, throw them in an ultrasonic cleaner or use a bearing blaster and put a drop of rem oil on a hook and drip it in the bearing. Bantam oil is a little too thick for what I prefer for spool bearings. Same with 321. Lasts a long time though.

[Riazuli]

 

The sv spool is used in the same reel as the type r+.

 

air brakes work in different ways on different spools. They arent a blanket system. Stiff vs soft inductor springs, rotor size, etc.

 

by saying free spool is indicitive (or ancontributing factor) to casting performance is the same as saying an RC car bearing that free spools for 60 seconds is the equivilant of a zpi that free spools for the same 60 seconds.

 

ive put the same zpis on an HLC spool and the cheap bearings from an rc car vendor in an hlc. Both free spool forever. Guess which actually was able to cast with any consistancy?

 

if you want that, pop the shields off the spool bearings, throw them in an ultrasonic cleaner or use a bearing blaster and put a drop of rem oil on a hook and drip it in the bearing. 

That's good to see you're addressing it from all angles.  I'm learning some new things here - It was a toss up for me between going shimano or daiwa recently, and shimano won out, so my knowledge base on the Daiwa's is minimal.  That being said, I wan't to clarify too that I don't really think free spooling is indicative of casting performance in a very significant way, at least in terms of distance (I'm also wondering about lure weights/finesse fishing).  

 

I'm guessing a factor as to why the rc car bearings free spooling for a while but not casting well has to do with rotational speeds/lure weights coming into play, but I am a little confusing by the following: "My TDZ R+ spools can free spool for well over a minute. I have SV spools that free spool for 5-6 seconds tops /w the same bearings. The SV spool casts better." 

 

You're saying the TDZ free spools for over a minute, but the SV spools for 5-6 seconds yet casts better.  Aren't you saying that these are two different spools/systems?  Why do you think the SV is free spooling for 5-6 seconds?  There has to be something slowing it down. - I see what you're saying about the air brakes - I had originally confused the SV feature with the Air brakes.  

[iabass8]

 

That's good to see you're addressing it from all angles.  I'm learning some new things here - It was a toss up for me between going shimano or daiwa recently, and shimano won out, so my knowledge base on the Daiwa's is minimal.  That being said, I wan't to clarify too that I don't really think free spooling is indicative of casting performance, at least in terms of distance (I'm also wondering about lure weights/finesse fishing).  

 

I'm guessing a factor as to why the rc car bearings free spooling for a while but not casting well has to do with rotational speeds/lure weights coming into play, but I am a little confusing by the following: "My TDZ R+ spools can free spool for well over a minute. I have SV spools that free spool for 5-6 seconds tops /w the same bearings. The SV spool casts better." 

Bearing quality is something thats been talked about for years. Especially over at TT. We’re trying to save you time and money . 

 

Not sure if they are a site sponsor anymore but hawgtech sells a great bearing for around 8$.

 

Finesse bfs casting has a lot to do with the rod as much as the reel. Casting 1/16oz and less lures requires the correct rod and consistant casting. Cheap junk bearings, for the most part, don’t have consistant balls, races, tracks, etc. Clean them, put them on a bearing checker to test and they will spin for ever.  you wont have consistant peformance on the water over bearings that have a much more strict QC. 

 

The r+ and sv have the same bearings and are in the same reel.  

[Riazuli]

 

Bearing quality is something thats been talked about for years. Especially over at TT. We’re trying to save you time and money . 

 

Not sure if they are a site sponsor anymore but hawgtech sells a great bearing for around 8$.

 

Finesse bfs casting has a lot to do with the rod as much as the reel. Casting 1/16oz and less lures requires the correct rod and consistant casting. Cheap junk bearings, for the most part, don’t have consistant balls, races, tracks, etc. Clean them, put them on a bearing checker to test and they will spin for ever.  you wont have consistant peformance on the water over bearings that have a much more strict QC. 

 

The r+ and sv have the same bearings and are in the same reel.  

ah, ok - so you have two of the same reel, one with sv and one with a type r spool?  Btw, I edited my post above - why do you think one is only free spooling for 5-6 seconds?

[iabass8]

 

ah, ok - so you have two of the same reel, one with sv and one with a type r spool?  Btw, I edited my post above - why do you think one is only free spooling for 5-6 seconds?

I have 4 of the same. 2 with R+ spools and 2 with 2 different sv spools.

 

The inductor plays a large part. Casts better though. 

 

Thats not to say sv spools wont free spool. The steez sv tw g1 spool will spin foever.

 

 

[Riazuli]

 

I have 4 of the same. 2 with R+ spools and 2 with 2 different sv spools.

 

The inductor plays a large part. Casts better though. 

 

Thats not to say sv spools wont free spool. The steez sv tw g1 spool will spin foever.

 

 

I figured it had something to do with the braking system.  I know when it comes down to it, the main thing is that you're using a good quality bearing in a good quality and properly cleaned and lubed reel.  I just like to nerd out on this stuff sometimes.  Good for brain maintenance

[OnthePotomac]

TSI 301 (fast evaporating solvent with 321 in it) and  TSI 321 were developed for NASA for a lubricant in space because it adheres to a metal surface and oil cannot be used in a space environment.  The solvent in 301 also acts as a cleaning agent and evaporates very quickly.  301 is popular with police departments and private gun owners.  Wipe it on an unblued gun and it will never rust. Go here to learn all about it and order it.  These folks make it. http://www.tsi301.com/main.htm

[Yumeya]

I wonder if 321 would be the better way to go with ceramic bearings since it would coat the metal that the ceramic balls run on...

 

Also where is everyone buying there tsi 321?

I found some on Ebay from dadsoletackle shop and wonder if its real...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/TSI-321-Specially-Formulated-Synthetic-Lubricant-Fishing-Reel-Bearing-Oil-1oz/172906031231?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D47300%26meid%3D07677fb659d34cf08abf553aec339838%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D401417041596&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

[OnthePotomac]

you can order it from http://www.tsi301.com/main.htm

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

One of the main advantages of ceramic bearings is the ability to run them dry. Oiling them might extend life minimally but high performance almost always trumps longevity. It's all just enthusiast tinkering at the end of the day though. 

[Riazuli]

Just to give an update based on my experience: The TSI 321 definitely lives up to the hype (for me, at least).  I gained significantly noticeable casting length and smoothness in casting after applying it to my spool bearings.  I had cleaned and oiled the bearings prior to that more than once in the past couple of months (lots of crud in this particular fishing spot).  The TSI oil also performs well in sub 30 degrees weather.  I had tried some generic reel oil after a cleaning, shimano bantam oil after a cleaning, and shortly after with no cleaning, I tried a small amount of the TSI - I then used compressed air to blow out any excess (which I had also done with prior oilings).  The mix of TSI on top of the bantam oil was the ticket.  I've also read elsewhere that a mix of a good standard reel oil like shimano's oil along with TSI has good results: 

 

I pay close attention to this stuff (casting performance, etc.) and this definitely made a difference - I'm hitting spots I just could not hit prior to using this oil (even after cleaning, tweaking settings, line conditioner, etc.).  I mean, hey, if NASA uses it, then there's gotta be something to it, right? 

 

Just to add, I did a full cleaning/greasing/oiling (gears, bearings, levelwind, etc.) prior to adding the shimano oil for the first time.   I also noticed the performance gain on two of the same reel, which were both maintained the same way.