Heartbreaking -- Grass Carp Stocking in Briery Creek

[5-20]

I grew up in Virginia but have lived in Texas and California for the last 10+ years. I recently became curious about how Briery Creek was doing because it kept on knocking on the door for the Virginia largemouth bass state record and falling just slightly short with two 16 pounders that needed an ounce or two to break the old record of 16.4 pounds from Lake Conner.

 

And I simply.... simply could not believe my eyes when I read that the Va. DGIF stocked 4,800 grass carp in the lake in 2008 and then followed that up with 7,000 more grass carp last year.

 

Report: https://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wp-content/uploads/2008-Briery-Creek-Biologist-Report.pdf

 

Why? Why? There has never, ever been anything good to come out of stocking grass carp in a lake. Never. 

 

The report in the link states that 75% of the fishermen fish Briery Creek for bass.

 

Then it explains that they think that by stocking grass carp they hope to increase the amount of phytoplankton in the lake and control macrophytes which might stimulate bait fish growth.

 

No, no... this is just unbelievable. There are so many, many case studies to use as evidence. Every time grass carp is stocked in a lake, all of the grass disappears and the fishing ends up becoming terrible in two or three years. Having as much grass as possible in a lake is never a bad thing. It's just tons of oxygen and cover, especially with hydrilla which is probably the #1 thing you could hope for in a lake. 

 

This is just unbelievable... it's not a lake in a huge metropolitan area with folks in huge lake front homes and huge wake board boats that are complaining about the grass getting in the way of boating and wakeboarding. Briery Creek is a remote lake that was designed to be a trophy bass destination. Grass is a fantastic thing to have in that lake. Grass is so much fun to fish. Grass produces giant bass. 

 

The first stocking in 2008 was bad enough. Grass carp usually live around 8-12 years. They would've started dying off soon, but to restock the lake with even more grass carp... Why? 

 

Really heartbreaking. I feel bad for all of you guys that live near the lake. 

[Turtle135]

I hate to hear that. I have never fished Briery but I was planning to next season. They put grass carp in Lake Frederick in Virginia and from what I have seen the grass was pretty much wiped out and the big largemouth are now few and far between.

[scaleface]

They stocked grass carp in a local lake and the big bass got rarer .The last couple of years they sprayed the grass and the big bass  got skinny . I like grass carp a lot better than herbicides .

[flyfisher]

Each year they shock up big bass at briery so I am not sure that the stocking of grass carp has made that much of an impact on the fishery.  My anecdotal evidence hasn't seen any difference in my catching since carp were stocked.  

 

I want to say that last year or the year before they shocked up a state record sized fish.  lakes go through cycles and it was hit pretty hard by the LMBV (according to reports i have read).

Sandy is another  great fishery too that seems to be on the upswing.

 

I do also wonder if the big bass got rarer or they are harder to catch and become more wary with fewer places to hide.

[BuzzHudson19c]

Terrible. I can't speak to grass carp specifically, but for the most part where there are a lot of carp there isn't much of anything else. The only exception I have found is in rivers with good current it doesn't seem to effect the smallmouth much. I hate carp.

[68camaro]

That stinks, they put grass carp in our local ponds and vegetation is much less while fishing is tougher. 

 

I fished Briery today, water temps 47'ish and off and on wind. In 15' of water I caught a 5.45LB LM jigging a Binsky Blade bait on finesse setup with 6lb mono. I saw two on sonar and caught one on 2 or 3rd twitch.

 

This is my second time there, first was 3weeks ago and fish are still 15" and above. I did catch a 8" one today though.

[DINK WHISPERER]

Can anyone explain why carp make for these negative conditions? I fish some old phosphate pits with some monster size carp and bass as well. Does it vary from one body of water to another? 

[Scarborough817]

1 hour ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

Can anyone explain why carp make for these negative conditions? I fish some old phosphate pits with some monster size carp and bass as well. Does it vary from one body of water to another? 

this is my thinking and someone please tell me if im wrong. the carp eat the grass which includes all the plankton in the grass, this slowly kills off the bluegill or baitfish population since they now have nothing to eat, this in turn kills off the bass because they now have less to eat 

[5-20]

1 hour ago, DINK WHISPERER said:

Can anyone explain why carp make for these negative conditions? I fish some old phosphate pits with some monster size carp and bass as well. Does it vary from one body of water to another? 

You're probably seeing common carp in your lakes which are very different from grass carp. Common carp are not a nuisance at all. They don't uproot and eat every shred of vegetation in the water system. 

 

With grass in the ecosystem, everything thrives. From the bottom of the food chain, the small baitfish have increased cover to hide in. The water becomes more filtered and clearer, which allows bass to hunt more effectively, by sight instead of just by sound or their lateral lines. The bass end up having tons of ambush points all along grass lines which makes them very efficient predators. The water has increased oxygen content. Barren mile long mud flats become prime hunting grounds. 

 

Once grass carp are stocked, they're just giant bullies in the water, plowing through everything, stirring mud up, eating everything in sight. Once the grass disappears, they'll eat whatever else's in the water, regardless of whether that's the lily pads, reeds or tules, or whatever you call them, until the water's completely devoid of cover.

 

This has happened in every body of water grass carp has been stocked in. From Lake Conroe in Texas, to Lake Austin, which was the #4 fishery in the Bassmaster Rankings in 2012 or right around that. People were catching 30-35 lb. limits regularly during the summer time 3 hour long evening tourneys, (key words: summer time three hour long tourneys) it would almost always take 28-35 lbs to win. At least one or two 10-11 lb. fish would always be brought in, too. The lake record was set during that time with a 16.03 lb giant. Now, people are lucky to catch 12-15 lb bags. A 5-6 lb fish is now considered a good catch.

 

Funny... Va DGIF did this to Lake Anna, too. Any of you remember the massive fish and bags that used to come out of Anna in the 80s and early 90s. People thought Anna was going to produce the next state record. I think the biggest fish that came out of Anna was a very respectable 14.4 lbs and that was when Anna was a very young fishery, too. And then they stocked grass carp that ate all of the hydrilla. And now 12-15 lb limits with a 5-6 lb. kicker is something to get excited about.

 

Does anyone want to share this thread with anyone in Va. DGIF. This is just tragic. Absolutely tragic. Roughly 12,000 grass carp in that tiny 800 acre reservoir... It's never going to be a trophy fishery again. Just unbelievable they would want to do this to a small and remote body of water that once drew people from hundreds of miles away for the chance to catch a giant. 

 

I mean.... the lake kicked out two 16 pound bass. That's amazing for Virginia. A lot of amazing and historic lakes in Texas don't even have a 16 pound bass as the lake record.

 

Briery Creek was obviously on the right track. Why would Va. DGIF disregard all of the evidence that shows stocking grass carp absolutely destroys the bass fishing in that body of water. It's absolutely incomprehensible... 

 

 

[Johnbt]

"Any of you remember the massive fish and bags that used to come out of Anna in the 80s and early 90s."

 

I remember my buddy talking about them back before he got me seriously interested in bass fishing. He never had any of them mounted; only the giants he caught in Florida.

 

Here's a 10.5 he caught earlier this year at Sandy River Reservoir. I weighed it.

Well, let me try that pic again. The file size it too big I suppose since the upload failed. My pc says it's 25 kb.

[CroakHunter]

Grass carp will eat every egg of bass and bluegill. They are terrible. That's why I shoot them in the face with my bow where legal. We've shot them up to 65lbs. Good thing is they rarely reproduce in non flowing waters

[DINK WHISPERER]

Wow! I had no idea it was that serious. Now that I think about it, i think I've seen a few signs around lakes I fish prohibiting the release of grass carp if caught. I'm going to pay close attention next time out. 

[Johnbt]

At least they're sterile.

 

"Accordingly, the VDGIF stocked triploid (sterile) grass carp (N = 4,900) in May 2008 to reduce plant coverage (estimated at 40%). Grass carp generally take 2- 3 years to be effective in controlling macrophytes."

 

www.dgif.virginia.gov/wp-content/uploads/2008-Briery-Creek-Biologist-Report.pdf

[5-20]

The behavior of those giant grass disrupts the entire ecosystem. They swim everywhere and continually push fish out of areas they’re comfortable with. They don’t have any predators. 

 

Think about it. Giant bass and other fish and animals, bears for example, become huge because they find comfortable feeding zones and coexist with the other fish or animals easily. 

 

Those grass carp eventually grow to z 40-50-60 pounds and bull through everything, eating everything they can suck into their throats after the grass is long gone. 

 

12,000 grass carp in tiny 800 acre Briery creek which was at 40% vegetation before the most recent stocking of 7,000 additional grass carp is just unbelievable. 40% vegetation is an extremely healthy number. Tons of feeding zones and hiding places for bass. Now that’s gone. Bass fishing just became a lot easier for a lot of people especially during the spring when they’re in predictable and vulnerable positions. 

 

75% of the fishermen were going there for Bass. The lake grew two 16 pound bass and there are many fabled Texan reservoirs that only have a 15 pound bass as their lake record like Choke Canyon, Ivie, Falcon and many others  Briery Creek was a thriving lake. It probably just needed to cycle through a few years of low fishing pressure and two or three years of low and rising water levels and then we might be surprised to find that we have someone that finally got a 17-18 pound bass out of that lake. 

 

How was this plan approved? It’s really sort of unbelievable. A tiny farm and nutrient rich lake in aptly named Farmville designed for trophy bass is on its way towards being destroyed by our fisheries department. 

 

I think all of you guys that that are involved with bass clubs in Virginia need to take a stand against this. So it doesn’t keep on happening to other lakes. 

 

 

[soflabasser]

Interesting subject. I fish many bodies of water that are stocked with triploid carp(grass carp) and these carp do not seem to be affecting the bass fishing. I catch plenty of big bass in these waters, as well as big triploid carp. Seems like these fish are coexisting well with each other in South Florida.

[flyfisher]

You also have to remember that florida strain bass are notoriously more difficult to catch on artificial when they get larger and that may also be impacting the perceived large bass decline as well.

 

Spawning bass are more accessible grass or not so i find that argument to be invalid form my anecdotal experience.

[Pro Logcatcher]

I feel sorry for you... A pond I used to catch fish on all the time got grass carp put in there and now you're lucky to catch one every four hours fishing super finesse.

[5-20]

2 hours ago, flyfisher said:

You also have to remember that florida strain bass are notoriously more difficult to catch on artificial when they get larger and that may also be impacting the perceived large bass decline as well.

 

Spawning bass are more accessible grass or not so i find that argument to be invalid form my anecdotal experience.

I think grass enhances spawning flats considerably and in some years with heavy rains, the nests aren’t as visible or easy to pinpoint because they’re so scattered along the vast grass flats instead of being next to wood. That gives all of those big fish an extra spawning cycle or two or three before they MIGHT be caught and possibly taken out of the lake or injured to the point they end up having a shorter lifespan. Maybe I am reaching a little on this but I stand by all of my comments about the destructive nature of grass carp.

 

The entire Colorado River fishery beginning in the Austin, Texas area, all the way down to the gulf may be at risk now. The 40,000 grass carp stocked in Lake Austin beginning in 2013, I believe, have spilled over to the adjacent downstream lake, Lake Lady Bird and in one year or a little more than that, they completely ate  all of the vegetation. The fishery has quickly become terrible. The next dam is the last one on the Colorado river, I believe. That’s a 90-100 mile long beautiful and pristine fishery that ends at the mouth of the Gulf of Mexico that has fantastic bass fishing. It may not be the same for a long time if history is any indication of what massive grass carp stockings can bring about. 

[Sam]

I fish Lake Cherokee off Cherokee Road in the city of Richmond and have caught some beautiful bass.

 

Two years ago the homeowners on the lake installed an aerator system to help put more oxygen in the lake. I was told that they had to do this to help keep the lake clean.

 

Last year the grass went wild with all the oxygen being pumped in the lake. Grass everywhere.

 

So what did the homeowners do? They put grass carp in the lake this past spring. And guess what? The grass is gone.

 

The homeowners I know say they put in only 15 grass carp but there is no way 15 grass carp could eat all that grass in the lake in one summer.

 

Of course, I will go back next year and fish again but the bite was very slow and the bass smaller than in past years.

[soflabasser]

23 hours ago, flyfisher said:

You also have to remember that florida strain bass are notoriously more difficult to catch on artificial when they get larger and that may also be impacting the perceived large bass decline as well.

 

Spawning bass are more accessible grass or not so i find that argument to be invalid form my anecdotal experience.

I agree with you @flyfisher that Florida strain largemouth bass are much more difficult to catch than northern strain largemouth bass and that might be why so many Florida fishermen think there are no big bass in a body of water with grass carp. I fish many public waters with big grass carp and still catch big bass on a consistent basis.Most people that fish these same waters think there are no big bass in those places and find something to blame their failure in catching big bass on with no credible evidence to do so.

[hawgenvy]

All the artificial lakes and ponds I fish have been stocked with sterile grass carp. In south Florida all freshwater areas are prone to choking overgrowth, especially of algae, hydrilla and hyacinth. I catch plenty of bass in places with grass carp, but have seen tremendous bass declines in areas where the weeds are controlled chemically. 

 

I think the key is to balance weed control judiciously, which should be possible by controlling the quantity of the carp released, since they do not reproduce. Unfortunately, many homeowners near the lakes and ponds want no weeds at all and couldn't care less about fish.

 

I am also concerned about whether mosquito control measures have adversely impacted bass populations, in areas where mosquito larvae are important in the the diet of forage species. When bass fishing in an area declines the cause may not be obvious, and it is too easy to attribute the cause to contemporaneous circumstances and anecdotal evidence.

 

We probably should ask the pond boss guy what he thinks of grass carp. By the way, many years ago Louisiana considered the importation and introduction of African hippopotamuses to clear waterways in the state that were choked up with hyacinth.  The measure failed in the state legislature by one vote. 

 

 

 

 

[5-20]

3 hours ago, soflabasser said:

I agree with you @flyfisher that Florida strain largemouth bass are much more difficult to catch than northern strain largemouth bass and that might be why so many Florida fishermen think there are no big bass in a body of water with grass carp. I fish many public waters with big grass carp and still catch big bass on a consistent basis.Most people that fish these same waters think there are no big bass in those places and find something to blame their failure in catching big bass on with no credible evidence to do so.

I hate saying this but I'm not really sure you're entirely aware about what overstocking a fishery with grass carp can do to the fishery. I'm not sure if you're just trolling or really oblivious to what has happened to several large lakes in Texas. The fishing was magnificent in all of those lakes and fell off a cliff a year or two after the grass carp were stocked and ate all of the vegetation. 

 

Maybe you could take the time to read the examples I've posted about what happened to the bass fishing on some of these lakes I've mentioned. I lived fifteen minutes away from Lake Austin at the time it was #4 on the Bassmaster Top 100 lakes (if you're familiar with that list) and people (including myself) were catching giant fish left and right until these grass carp were stocked. People were catching 8-11 pound fish every week and huge limits from 30-35 lbs regularly even in the summer time. There was a new lake record set at 16+ lbs. And now, a five or six pound fish is a significant catch. People only catch 10-15 pound limits. 

 

Knowing how destructive grass carp can be and now that there are 12,000 grass carp in tiny Briery Creek Lake, I am going to say that I will not be surprised if there is absolutely zero vegetation in briery creek at all in roughly a year to two years. Those extra 7k carp are small right now but once they mature and grow a little bit, those fish will eventually eat the lily pads and everything else. It takes a lot of grass and food to sustain a 40+ pound fish. Those fish are going to eat everything they can in order to survive. People at Lake Austin have caught them on minnows!

 

The decline with fishing has absolutely nothing to do with these fish being florida strain bass. Those fish were caught regularly before the grass carp were stocked. The carp and the disappearance of vegetation and then the rapid decline in the quality of bass fishing are the only possible answers because that is the exact same situation that has played out on so many other lakes.

 

Nice troll, though!  

[soflabasser]

You might want to do some research before you comment about what grass carp do in the state of Florida.Grass carp might be a big problem in states with less than ideal fisheries, but not in Florida.Florida purposely stocks grass carp(triploid grass carp) in our waters to control the aquatic vegetation in the canals and lakes.These grass carp are thriving in our waters, as well as our bass.Every state is different, so you have take this in consideration.I am in South Florida, and we have a amazing fishery that people from all across the USA come to visit to fish our waters. It is quite common to find bodies of water down here that loaded with +5 pound bass and +20 pound grass carp.Thats nothing out of the ordinary for us, and many Florida fishermen have +10 pound largemouth PB's. We also have well over 20 species of exotic freshwater fish in South Florida, yet we still have a very healthy population of bass.

[5-20]

50 minutes ago, soflabasser said:

You might want to do some research before you comment about what grass carp do in the state of Florida.

 

I have no idea what you're talking about. I've never commented on grass carp in Florida. If you want to go and make a separate thread about how happy you are to have grass carp in Florida, by all means, feel free to do so. 

 

You, on the other hand, have disparaged my comments which are based on my first hand experiences and observations of what fishing is like before and after grass carp are stocked, both in Virginia and Texas.  

 

Again, I would be shocked if there's any vegetation at all left in Briery Creek Lake in two years.

 

Twelve thousand 20 to 40+ pound fish are going to need to eat an awful lot to sustain their body weight. 

 

Virginia does not have a year round vegetation growing season. Once the vegetation dies off in the winter or stops growing, there's going to be even less for the carp to eat. And the result is Briery Creek becomes a muddy mess with poor to mediocre fishing for the next 10-20 years. 

 

I honestly.... think it's amazing how the original architects of the lake and their vision for how to produce trophy bass which was clearly successful, evidenced by these two 16 pound bass Briery Creek kicked out (and this is absolutely remarkable for a fairly "northern" lake) could have their successful vision and plan so carelessly discarded.

 

Stock 12k grass carp in Briery Creek? Really?! Why?! There's such a tiny, tiny, such a minuscule chance the lake could see any upside from that all. Those grass carp are huge, slimy vegetation eating beasts that just swarm around the lake in massive schools eating everything, often occupying the same shallows and cover that bass use. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[5-20]

Take a look at one of the posts I pulled up from the Texas Fishing Forum.

 

Funny, there's also a reference in this thread about studies done in Texas that say the recommended amount of grass carp for lakes with less than 50% vegetation should be 5 per acre. 

 

For a 800 acre lake like Briery Creek, that means 4,000 carp at most. VDGIF decided to completely disregard these studies and recommendations done in a state that takes their bass fishing very seriously and stock three times as much?!?  

 

There are many threads in the TexasFishingForum site and AustinBassFishing forum that clearly describe the horrendous impact the grass carp have had on Lake Conroe, Lake Austin and other fisheries in Texas.

 

Those grass carp ate all of the reeds and tules in lake austin. I have no idea how they did that. Even if I was super starving, I doubt I could have choked down a single one of those tough and sinewy reeds or tules. There are pictures in some of the threads in the AustinBassFishing site that show the drastic difference in reeds all along the lake in just one year.