Leaders and fish loss

[bassinhole]

I'm getting really frustrated with using fluorocarbon leaders! I use 30lb-65lb main line and a 20lb fluro leader connected with an FG knot. When I first started tying the FG knot I would have them come lose 6 out of 10 times on a hook set. I have overcome that issue with practice tying the knot. However, I'm now getting routine line breaks of the leader material.... Very frustrating. 

 

I've been using Berkeley vanish fluro for my leader material and I think it may just be the cheap line causing the problem. It's got me so flustered I'm debating dropping the use of leaders all together. I hesitate though because I know I'm getting more hits while using the leader. 

 

What are you guys doing? Anyone else breaking 20lb leaders on your hook set? 

[Angry John]

The line is the number one issue.  If you are willing to make a switch that would be what I change.  Seaguar blue label is very good.  Run a test and see if the issue continues.  I also like the Alberto knot but I believe the line is your biggest problem.

[Darren.]

Well...I would first start at the FG knot. Unless you are super

proficient at tying it. I really don't get the obsession some have

with that knot. Yeah it may be the thinnest, but it is also very

long, and takes a lot of effort to learn.

 

I prefer using simpler knots like the Uni-to-Uni, and the Albright.

They just work, and work well, and can be tied on rough water in

a kayak!  

 

That said, if you are a pro at the FG, then go for it! I would think 

that Vanish Leader material is pretty decent. At least that's what

I've read. What if you tried an inexpensive copoly like Yo-Zuri

Hybrid? See if that has the same issues as Vanish Leader when

you use the FG.

[TnRiver46]

22 minutes ago, bassinhole said:

I'm getting really frustrated with using fluorocarbon leaders! I use 30lb-65lb main line and a 20lb fluro leader connected with an FG knot. When I first started tying the FG knot I would have them come lose 6 out of 10 times on a hook set. I have overcome that issue with practice tying the knot. However, I'm now getting routine line breaks of the leader material.... Very frustrating. 

 

I've been using Berkeley vanish fluro for my leader material and I think it may just be the cheap line causing the problem. It's got me so flustered I'm debating dropping the use of leaders all together. I hesitate though because I know I'm getting more hits while using the leader. 

 

What are you guys doing? Anyone else breaking 20lb leaders on your hook set? 

Never heard a good thing about Berkeley vanish. Everyone says it breaks. I bet if you try anything else it will work fine 

[Fishing_FF]

When I got into fishing again, I was looking for a website to help familiarize myself with the various fishing knots. There is a website called Salt Strong that has videos of the various knots. They also have run some knot tests, comparing the strength of various knots. The FG knot was a top performer. However, if it isn't tied right, the leader will slip out under the load of a fighting fish. 

 

I decided to run similar test with the the lines and leaders I use. I found that PowerPro Slick 8 doesn't dig into the leader enough to prevent it from slipping. With Seaguar Blue label, I had a 100% failure. The failure was a little less with Yo-Zuri leader, but it was still near the 75% range. I even had a guy at work that uses the FG knot on his salt water lines try it just to make sure it wasn't my knot. His failure was 100% with the Seaguar and near 100% with the Yo-Zuri, a bit higher than mine. It is now recommended on the Salt Strong website that the slick braids and FG knots don't mix. 

 

This caused me to further test my line to leader knots and terminal tackle knots (snug and loop) to see what had the highest breaking strength since the FG knot failed so miserably. My results were shocking, but also informative. I haven't had a break off with a fish. I have gotten pretty good a freeing snagged lures, but if it is stuck to the point I have to break off, the breaks are occurring at the terminal connection knot, not the line-to-leader knot. 

 

You might want to check out their site and replicate their testing with your lines and a couple different potential leader materials. 

[bassinhole]

45 minutes ago, Fishing_FF said:

When I got into fishing again, I was looking for a website to help familiarize myself with the various fishing knots. There is a website called Salt Strong that has videos of the various knots. They also have run some knot tests, comparing the strength of various knots. The FG knot was a top performer. However, if it isn't tied right, the leader will slip out under the load of a fighting fish. 

 

I decided to run similar test with the the lines and leaders I use. I found that PowerPro Slick 8 doesn't dig into the leader enough to prevent it from slipping. With Seaguar Blue label, I had a 100% failure. The failure was a little less with Yo-Zuri leader, but it was still near the 75% range. I even had a guy at work that uses the FG knot on his salt water lines try it just to make sure it wasn't my knot. His failure was 100% with the Seaguar and near 100% with the Yo-Zuri, a bit higher than mine. It is now recommended on the Salt Strong website that the slick braids and FG knots don't mix. 

 

This caused me to further test my line to leader knots and terminal tackle knots (snug and loop) to see what had the highest breaking strength since the FG knot failed so miserably. My results were shocking, but also informative. I haven't had a break off with a fish. I have gotten pretty good a freeing snagged lures, but if it is stuck to the point I have to break off, the breaks are occurring at the terminal connection knot, not the line-to-leader knot. 

 

You might want to check out their site and replicate their testing with your lines and a couple different potential leader materials. 

What did you find worked best for you? 

[Turkey sandwich]

4 hours ago, Darren. said:

Well...I would first start at the FG knot. Unless you are super

proficient at tying it. I really don't get the obsession some have

with that knot. Yeah it may be the thinnest, but it is also very

long, and takes a lot of effort to learn.

 

I prefer using simpler knots like the Uni-to-Uni, and the Albright.

They just work, and work well, and can be tied on rough water in

a kayak!  

 

That said, if you are a pro at the FG, then go for it! I would think 

that Vanish Leader material is pretty decent. At least that's what

I've read. What if you tried an inexpensive copoly like Yo-Zuri

Hybrid? See if that has the same issues as Vanish Leader when

you use the FG.

exactly.

[The Bassman]

I tried to get in the habit of using a leader this year. Actually got pretty proficient with Alberto and uni-uni knot.  My problem with break offs was from lack of attention to re-tying at the terminal. My leader to braid knots never failed. Mono knots fail after being fatigued. I feel much more confident with straight braid when I'm in a low abrasion situation. I really don't think it has an effect on the fish's wariness either. Also, never cared for that little tick sound every time I cast.

[Poolshark]

I've had breakage issues with Berkeley vanish as well. Switch brands. Also, keep experimenting and trying new knots. I have never had a leader break on me while fighting a fish and that includes yanking then out of some pretty thick cover. 

[Team9nine]

11 hours ago, bassinhole said:

 

What are you guys doing? Anyone else breaking 20lb leaders on your hook set? 

 

Seems like you have a few options here. First thing I'm doing is ditching the braid on any baitcasters outside of one or two specialized applications - but that's just me and beside the point.

 

So that leaves...

 

- Try a higher quality fluoro, as Vanish doesn't have the best reputation.

- Use a knot other than the FG that is less likely to have issues (Alberto or 'J' in particular).

- Use a nylon based clear leader instead of a fluorocarbon one so you'll get a better bite with the braid (nylon is softer).

- Change braids as suggested above to something with a bit more bite or more friction/drag.

 

Good luck!

[j_blaze14]

fluoro is another animal, im still going through growing pains since i started using it.  it seems to "slip" a bit at the knots, you need to leave a longer tag end.  as for the fg, it seems to loose some strength when you friction weld it to the braid tightening at the end.  im a huge fg fan but ive been using the improved alberto for a few weeks with good success (12lb kastking fluoro) and have not lost a fish since i switchd to alberto and longer tag ends.

[Deleted account]

If you are using heavy braid with lighter leader (not sure why someone would) the uni-uni is your best bet. 9 turns on the braid 4 on the mono (yes, ditch the flouro) try some Ande tournament line.

[Fishing_FF]

17 hours ago, bassinhole said:

What did you find worked best for you? 

You mileage is going to vary depending on which main line and leaders you used. 

 

This is comes from testing various knots on different main lines and leaders with the following results of the strongest knots on the line noted:

 

The strongest main line (10lbs PowerPro Slick 8) to leader (Yo-Zuri leader beat Seaguar and Ande fluoro in the 15lbs class) tied with a double double uni knot (check Salt Strong to find the modification to the knot). 

 

The strongest main line (30lbs PowerPro) to leader (15lbs Yo-Zuri and 30lbs Stren Orange Catfish mono) was the 6 turn surgeon knot. 

 

The best loop loop knot with the Yo-Zuri is a Rapala knot, but I go with the Kreh because the tag points down (more weedless) and the difference was less than 1/2lbs between the Rapala and Kreh.

 

The best snug knot with the Yo-Zuri is the Orvis. I tried several different ties of the Palomar, but they all had low failure points. When I went up to 20lbs regardless of the brand, mono or fluoro, the Palomar was the top performer. 

 

For my heavier carolina and catfish rigs with 20lbs or better mono, the Palomar knot is the was the best performer for snug knot connections.

 

The best snug braid connection knot was the modified uni knot (see Salt Strong again to see the difference). This was for both the PowerPro Slick 8 and regular. 

 

My friends have done their own test with their own main lines and leaders. The results as to which knot is the strongest does depend on brand and line test. If you want to use the recommended knots from Salt Strong without conducting your own test, they use 10lbs PowerPro (regular) and 20lbs Ande. 

 

Good luck!

[MassYak85]

How far into your leader are you breaking off? If it's in some random spot then either the leader line itself is bad or you aren't checking it enough for nicks or damage. If it seems like the entire leader came back without the lure it may be your leader to lure knot breaking. 

 

If you are confident you are not doing anything wrong I'd try another line. I personally run 20lb P-Line 100% Fluorcarbon leaders and 40lb mainline Power Pro braid and an FG knot and I never have issues. 

[WRB]

The simple truth is bass anglers used very few knots before FC line became popular. Blood knot was used to join line together and clinch knot followed by Palomar knot to tie lures and hook.

FC has created more different knots then any other line because of knot failures. If the original knots; blood, clinch and Palomar knots worked for FC we wouldn’t ’ be having this discussion.

Simple solution is use a premium mono/ copoly leader and give up FC.

Tom

[Angry John]

Agree with tom 100% if you dont have to use flouro then i would give it up sooner than later.  Some people deal with zebra or other problem and decide its worth the pain.  If your not in that situation then flouro is just a pain...  Jerkbaits is just about the only reason i use it now a days because of suspending...

[Bluebasser86]

I fish braid on several baitcasters, but never with a leader and you're experiencing why first hand. I'd rather deal with, maybe, a few less bites a day versus bites that end up in lost fish, lures, leader, and time. 

[Yudo1]

I use leaders on all of my braid combos. I've tried the fg and never have been good enough to make it work. It just unravels or slips every time. The Alberto has always been my go to. I've never had failure at the knot. It is easy to tie and just works.

[Smokinal]

I've been using the braid/fluoro leader combo for around 10 years now with great success and I don't see myself changing anything about it in the future. I get tons of bites, no break-offs, no knot issues.

 

So let's start with the line...they call it Vanish for a reason; because that's what your fish do when you use it. No need for buying the sales-pitched "leader material"; just buy a spool of any fluoro but Vanish and you will be fine.

 

The FG knot stands for FuGettaboudit...I use a blood knot for regular guide sizes and an Alberto for micro-guides. And I use an improved clinch at the bait.

 

Be sure to wet all your knots before cinching.

 

These will get you back in business brother.