Advice for shallow water angler moving out to the deep stuff

[J Francho]

16 hours ago, WRB said:

If the life zone is 25’ I usually start looking at the 20’ elevation lines for example, this becomes my new shoreline near or off shore islands or underwater humps. If there is a large flat area at 20’ depth look for coves, points, draws etc associated or connected to that flat that create a deeper break just like the above water shoreline you are used to fishing. No bait, no bass no reason to stay.

Tom

This is exactly how I do it on Lake Ontario and Erie. I start at the 30’ line as my shoreline. Then I look for super structure elements, and then try to locate bait. Find bait, there’s fish there too. Drop shot and Hopkins Shorty spoon are my primary tools. 

[WRB]

I made an effort to point out the importance of being able to understand 2D maps or sonar and seeing in your minds eye 3D details by looking at local physical terrain. 

If you can't do this fishing deeper than you can see the bottom becomes very difficult.

Bass move around they do not sit in one spot all day waiting for something to come to them to eat. 

Like the shoreline there are specific areas bass use to hunt and feed at and areas they rest, usually not very far apart. Suspending is how bass rest, they just float suspended in place at a specific depth using their fins to keep stable in a near sleeping state I call being inactive. When you see suspended bass over deeper water on your sonar screen with nothing near them those bass are more than likely inactive at that time. The depth these inactive bass are at is important because those bass will remain at or very near that depth when they become active feeders. Look at your lake map find structure nearby that intersects the depth the bass and or baitfish are at. Often a few active bass will be catchable on the structure and more bass should move onto that area as they become more active. 

The term moving up doesn't mean moving shallower, it usually means moving horizontal  because bass avoid making big depth changes until it becomes necessary to catch prey, then it's a short burst up and down. It takes over 24 hours for a bass to reacclimate to depth changes of more than a few feet, it's a slow process.

Your sonar is more than just a tool, it's your eyes underwater. Can you fish deep structure without sonar? yes if you have intimate knowledge of the structure. Without sonar you can't see the life zone depth without the time consuming trail and error of fishing.

Buck Perry refused to use sonar preferring to troll his spoon plugs to determine what depth the bass were using. Perry fished ledge lakes ideal for trolling and pioneered deep structure bass fishing. Few bass anglers troll lures today, use your sonar. If you are not good reading your electronics hire a good sonar expert bass angler and spend a day on the water learning how to use your equipment, it's important if you want to be good at off shore bass fishing.

Tom

[WRB]

Lake classifications are named after the terrain they are located in. Using the In-Fisherman classifications of Low Land, High Land, Hill Land, Canyon, Flat land is useful and important to understand when discussing off shore or deep structure bass fishing.

My lakes are all small High Land class lakes with steep banks and few few islands and humps, mostly long major points and secondary points, the deep structure isn't miles off shore, it's a few hundred yards.

I remember Catt posting an old Toledo Bend lake map and was amazed at the number of hills this Hill Land reservior has. Toledo Bend is a massive lake with hundreds of underwater off shore humps miles off shore that could take a lifetime to begin to learn, a structure fishermans paradise.

We need to keep things in perspective to where we fish, how we approach fishing structure should be the same.

Tom

 

[Catt]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 It's nice to see fish on the finder, but you still have to determine what kind, and whether you can get them to bite. It's much more important to understand the bottom layout first (structure, breaks and breaklines) than it is to see "fish," IMO.

 

?

[Frogman]

9 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Quote

I am looking for bait and structure on points and humps.

Not to be snarky, but, "No you're not." Points and humps ARE structure. Whatever you're looking for on them isn't 'structure.' Terminology matters.

This is insightful....  I have been really focused on finding brushpiles, rockpiles, and things like that on humps and points rather than thinking of them as the actual structure that the fish are relating to.  With that being said, I could fish thoroughly from the outside in of the point or hump.  I've literally written off barren points with no structure.  I've been focused in on rocky points and points I know have rockpiles.  I haven't even checked up at a point with barren ground.  With all of these posts considered, I should consider any point with access to deep water as a viable option until eliminated.

9 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Quote

I am looking for bait and structure on points and humps.

Not to be snarky, but, "No you're not." Points and humps ARE structure. Whatever you're looking for on them isn't 'structure.' Terminology matters.

This is insightful....  I have been really focused on finding brushpiles, rockpiles, and things like that on humps and points rather than thinking of them as the actual structure that the fish are relating to.  With that being said, I could fish thoroughly from the outside in of the point or hump.  I've literally written off barren points with no structure.  I've been focused in on rocky points and points I know have rockpiles.  I haven't even checked up at a point with barren ground.  With all of these posts considered, I should consider any point with access to deep water as a viable option until eliminated.

[Frogman]

7 hours ago, WRB said:

When you see suspended bass over deeper water on your sonar screen with nothing near them those bass are more than likely inactive at that time. The depth these inactive bass are at is important because those bass will remain at or very near that depth when they become active feeders. Look at your lake map find structure nearby that intersects the depth the bass and or baitfish are at. Often a few active bass will be catchable on the structure and more bass should move onto that area as they become more active. 

So if I see suspended fish at 10-12 ft, I should be fishing nearby structure in that range.  That is very interesting.  I had no idea that it took bass so long to acclimate to different depths.  I knew there was a process but I didn't know it was that involved.

[WRB]

It's important to understand LMB anatomy in regards to their air bladder when targeting  bass living in water deeper than 35' do to expansion of the air bladder if hooked and brought up to the surface. The air bladder is actually a gas bladder filled with gases from the digestive process. Black bass family don't have bladder values to release gas and like a ballon it increases in size with less external pressure and compresses in size with more external pressure, the pressure being water squeezing the fishes body.

For the bass to suspend it adjusts it's air bladder pressure by being stationary and letting thier body increase or absorb gases, it takes time.

My interpretation of structure is everything that makes up the lake bottom, the earth. Things that grow are cover. Breaks are changes in structure, cover, water temperature and color...changes. A pile of rocks on the lake bottom is isolated structure where ever it's located, on a flat,  a hump or a point, etc. Isolated structure tends to give a bass a place to stay near if it's located at the right depth and where a prey source is available.

I believe everyone can learn to read maps and understand structure, breaks and break lines. Not everyone has the ability to locate bass on structure, breaks and breaklines without the aid of sonar to determine the depth the bass are at.

Most bass anglers use the shoreline to orient themselves visually with targets to cast at. When looking at open water surface makes it difficult to know where you are located without a sonar unit and staying on outside structure nearly impossible.

Tom 

[padon]

I'm trying to get better at deep water fishing too,unfortunately my lakes don't seem to have a lot of "character" in the depths.what I mean is you don't see a lot of humps drop offs ridges etc but I have found a few things that have worked for me.one thing I have learned is to trust the depth finder.if it tells you something is down there it's there. It may or may not hold fish but the finder doesn't lie.

[BigAngus752]

On 11/12/2017 at 2:11 PM, Sam said:

Turn around 180*!!!!

I'm here to tell you that this works.  This is a much more simplistic version of all the things that @Catt @WRB @Team9nine @A-Jay @J Francho have taught me and what they are telling you here.  First, learn how to study.  Then study.  Then you'll find them because they go up and back down, and then up, and then back down again.  If you were catching them shallow they got there by following what I now think of as a "bass interstate".  I don't work the destinations anymore.  I work the highway in between the destinations.  Now, thanks to these guys, I find fish!  I don't need to know what the weather is.  I don't need to know how close the moon is to the sun or whatever.  The fish are somewhere along that highway.  I'm not smart or knowledgeable enough to say it scientifically like these guys do but I've learned to dumb it down so I understand it.  I owe all of these guys a lot of fish and a lot more to come. 

[Catt]

@BigAngus752 from a previous thread 

 

Bass Fishing & Deer Hunting!

 

Y'all ever notice similarities between the two?

 

Both have a home, deer bed down in the same area, bass hide in cover in the same area.

Both have kitchens & dining rooms, both have numerous feeding areas.

Both follow the terrain (structure) to & from feeding areas.

 

Both can be harvested in one of three ways

1. Find their homes; usually located on prime structure & in prime cover, both are setup on structure & in cover that allows them to see all directions at once. Maybe not 360 but it'll be as close as they feel comfortable.

2. Find their feeding areas; multiple areas that have sufficient food to last the present season.

3. Find the trails to & from those areas; both travel structure in a way that allows them to see while remaining unseen.

 

When I was a teenager my dad would get topographical maps of the areas we deer hunted. I would shade in areas that were White Oak, Live Oak, Pin Oak, Conifers, Soy Bean fields, rye grass fields, & other food sources. I also marked thickets, swamps creek bottoms, marshy areas, & other possible bedding areas.

 

This knowledge of reading structure was easily applied to bass fishing!

[Todd2]

Ok, I'm gonna venture out into left field here. Flats are structure right? So are drop offs, humps, saddles, points, ditches, etc. What's left? Everything on the bottom is structure right? So what we are talking about is fishing structure changes. Pea gravel to chunk rock transition, the end of a flat that drops off to deeper water, ditches have deep water in the middle rising up on each side, points taper out into deeper water, humps rise up into shallower water.

 

For me I try to visualize these areas and fish something that makes contact with the bottom. My confidence level goes way up when I'm feeling the lure come through cover in these places.

 

An old man told me one time to cast to the distance that most people have their boats...kind of goes along with the 180 degree thing.

 

Great thread...

[Catt]

@Todd2 Breaks/Breaklines ?

[Todd2]

32 minutes ago, Catt said:

@Todd2 Breaks/Breaklines ?

Yup...I always complicate things...lol

[Catt]

5 minutes ago, Todd2 said:

Yup...I always complicate things...lol

 

Exactly where I started!

 

Keep it simple ?

[Team9nine]

2 hours ago, Todd2 said:

Ok, I'm gonna venture out into left field here. Flats are structure right? So are drop offs, humps, saddles, points, ditches, etc. What's left? Everything on the bottom is structure right? So what we are talking about is fishing structure changes. Pea gravel to chunk rock transition, the end of a flat that drops off to deeper water, ditches have deep water in the middle rising up on each side, points taper out into deeper water, humps rise up into shallower water.

 

Great thread...

 

Nope, but I'm an originalist in this regard. Everything ON the bottom is either a break or breakline as Catt said. Structure is a feature OF the bottom.

[Catt]

Within larger bodies of water we will find 2 "types, classes, groups" of bass. 

 

There are bass that spend their entire lives within a certain distance from a shoreline.

 

There are bass that spend there entire lives never seeing a shoreline.

 

There is a shallow & deep "bite" in both areas, we have to decide which pattern will be most productive on a given day. The anglers who can  successfully move between the two will consistently catch more & bigger fish.

 

@Frogman Pick your most productive shallow water area, look at your map (avionics) for water deeper than your "10'" range. What you're trying to find is breaks/breaklines connecting the two.

 

You mentioned fishing grass, all aquatic vegetation stops growing at a certain depth. Take Hydrilla for instance, it stops growing at 15-18'. That little bit of information just gave me the location of a major breakline! Now you've almost double your depth range!

[MrPeanut]

I really need to get better at deep fishing - I love this thread. 

[TnRiver46]

5 minutes ago, MrPeanut said:

I really need to get better at deep fishing - I love this thread. 

It's easy to do when all the water near your house is deep!

[Mr. Aquarium]

thank you! im a struggling deepwater fishermen, give me shallow cover and im golden. i  have a lake with big bass but very little shallow cover and structure!  this place is clear and deep with good offshore structure, humps, flats,rocks, weeds, mussel beds,points,steep drop offs! but suck at fishing!! mainly cuz im in a kayak and my humming bird side scan is at home 

[WRB]

Side scan sonar is fairly new to bass fishing standard to off shore salt water fishing. As bass anglers venture off shore in fresh water scanning sonar has become more popular because it saves time.

You can do very well with down looking sonar combined with a good detailed map, just takes more time to meter fish or isolated cover/structure.

Yes, the entire lake bottom is structure and not all structure attracts bait or bass. Give me a break!

Tom

[Scarborough817]

1 minute ago, WRB said:

Side scan sonar is fairly new to bass fishing standard to off shore salt water fishing. As bass anglers venture off shore in fresh water scanning sonar has become more popular because it saves time.

You can do very well with down looking sonar combined with a good detailed map, just takes more time to meter fish or isolated cover/structure.

Yes, the entire lake bottom is structure and not all structure attracts bait or bass. Give me a break!

Tom

tom do you think it is entirely required to have a map? im debating between 2 units and i can't decide if i need one that will map my lake 

[J Francho]

6 minutes ago, Scarborough817 said:

tom do you think it is entirely required to have a map? im debating between 2 units and i can't decide if i need one that will map my lake 

GPS + mapping is a must have with me.  You get it on most units these days anyway.

[Scarborough817]

1 minute ago, J Francho said:

GPS + mapping is a must have with me.  You get it on most units these days anyway.

ya i know my home lake is just fairly small so its not on navitronics so i need a unit capable of mapping it 

[J Francho]

Did you check Lakemaster?  That's what I use, they have just about every mud puddle in my area.

[Scarborough817]

yep its not listed on there either its a small northern lake in muskoka, ontario