Advice for shallow water angler moving out to the deep stuff

[Frogman]

I am an experienced fisherman.  I am very efficient in the grass, flipping docks, dissecting banks with cover and anything else that comes with fishing in less than 10 ft of water.  I really struggle once I leave this comfort zone.  I have started dedicating my time to only fishing water deeper than my comfort zone.  I have had some limited success, but not a lot.  I have eliminated a lot of unproductive water.... I think.  

 

Here's my problem, I'm tired of feeling like I am out of options when the shallow water bite isn't there.  I know that I am one dimensional and when that top water and shallow water bite is off, i don't know where to go.  I keep struggling and fishing all day for the one or two bites I will get in shallow water.  I want to be able to change gears of go deep.  Sometimes when I decide to try I will sit on a deep point holding my shakey head rig for 20 minutes before I move on and repeat.  There is no real process. 

 

Here's what I know.  I can read a map.  I can find points and humps.  I have a ton on my home lake.  I know there is no replacement for experience.  I also know that there are some very good deep water bass fisherman on here that can begin locating deep water bass very quickly and hone in from there to find the better fish.  That's the advice I am looking for.  I am willing to put in the time and effort.  I will stay out for 6-8 hours scanning humps or slow rolling crank baits.  How do you guys figure out where you are going to start, what makes a point or hump a viable spot or not worth stopping at?  I am welcoming all advice starting with map reading to what to look for with scanning and how to cover these areas quickly to determine if they are productive.  One last piece of info, my home lake is not a river system with ledges.  It is a massive spread out man made lake.  .

 

Thanks in advance.

[scaleface]

Eufala is a classic deep water lake . Home of the Little George . I have a lot of success catching deep water fish but really dont know that much about it . First thing I do is look for a thermocline .That will be the maximum depth . Then I look to see if there is a depth most of the underwater life is congregating . I dont know why fish congregate at a certain depth but they do , maybe a higher O2 content there. Then with these two depths in mind I search out long extended points or other structure  . I almost always  use buoy's to mark the depth , fish , stump...  My two main lures are Texas rigs and crankbaits . The key to crankbaits is they must make bottom contact . If I'm fishing 12 foot I'll use a crank that touches bottom in about 14 or 15 foot . Those Berkely Dredgers stay at the depth a long time and I have caught a lot of fish close to the boat using them . The Red Eye Shad fished like a worm has been very effective . I also fish channels , humps , road beds  , flats...  too . 

  I'll often see a lot of activity say at 10 foot and the thermocline is at 18   or so .  It will stay that way all across open water and finding structure at that depth may  yield several dozen fish . Thats about it for me  very simple but effective .

[IgotWood]

I'm interested in this too. My lake has a max depth of 10-12', and the bottom is covered in thick grass year round. I mainly only fish the banks and a couple of flats. If the bite isn't happening, which is typical from now until April, I have absolutely no idea what to do. I'll fish some drops and steep banks with cranks, jerk baits, etc., but I rarely ever get bit. There are also many downed trees which extend quite a ways off the bank and hit the 8'-10' depths. I've tried everything on this lake with no luck. Already wishing the winter away. C'mon April!!!

[Frogman]

Thanks.  That is helpful.  See you have a system and that is what I am looking for.  I usually just go out, pick some point I'm familiar with and throw at it aimlessly and catch and occasional fish or two.  Using the thermocline, is that a summertime only thing?  Do you have the same process in winter when the water cools and they head back down?

[hstaple1979]

Deep water can be intimidating. I spent a lot of time this summer in the heat learning how to work deep structure. My best luck came off a neck in my home lake where several docks are located, and a sharp drop. I caught several here using a Shakey head with a green pumpkin senko. I also caught a few with football jigs. The next best area was a long grassy bank where the water went from about 2.5 ft to 25 on a gradual slope. Again, slowly dragging a Shakey head from the grass edge back to the boat picked up a good number of fish.

So far, this fall, most of the fish I've caught haven't been deep (6 to 10 ft) but I have a strategy, and I know where the deep humps and structure are. Keep at it, it'll come.

[WRB]

The terrain underwater doesn't change from what is above the water in a man made reservoir. When you drive to the lake the road is following structure because it's usually located on the valley floor winding along next to a creek or wider open areas with hills and additional valleys. 

When a dam is constructed the valley is filled with water covering the same terrian. Looking at topo maps of your area you can see the terrian changes in 3D and get a visual of what the map is showing using elevation lines.

Being able to interpret maps into a 3D visual is critical to the off shore angler. Today's sonar units do a good interpretation electronically but you still need to be able to see the big picture to put the terrian into perspective. 

Bass like changes in depth that give them an advantage to catch prey or use as a resting/sanctuary holding area. Largemouth Bass also like to be able to move up into shallower water and down into deeper water without needing to relocate a distance longer than a few hundred yards if possible, Smallmouth tend to roam further distances making more severe depth changes.

What I look for;

1. What depth are the bass and bait using now? I use my sonar unit in and around the marina to get some idea what depth the life zone is that day.

2. Where are the bass and bait most likely to be located based on seasonal preference.

The answer is what type of prey is most abundant during this time period, bass don't need to go deep if the prey is shallow and will not stay shallow if the prey is deeper. The reason is bass use their air bladder to neutralize bouyancy when resting, so there is a comfortable depth range you see when bass or baitfish are suspended and this depth is what I refer as the life zone you look for with sonar or visually.

So let's apply your shallow water knowledge to deeper water structure. Along the shore you look for places the bass uses to ambush prey like aquatic cover changes in weed types creating a hiding place. Deep structure has different elements that provide hiding places like rock piles, sharp breaks, stumps, trees, brush, undercuts, culverts, bridges, road beds, draws, old walls, fences, foundations and river/creek channels.

3. Meter before you start fishing. This is counter productive for shoreline anglers who like to stop and start fishing at good looking areas. The deep water angler is looking for fish on breaks trying to determine what depth to start at and what lures should be productive at those depths. When you reduce the lake to a depth zone the size shrinks quickly because few bass holding structures are present at any specific depth zone. Long points, humps, that have breaks like small flats and saddles are good starting areas.

Good luck.

Tom

[Sam]

Here is a pro's secret regarding the impact of shallow bass not being there:

 

Turn around 180*!!!!

 

Yes, instead of throwing to the bank, turn around and throw in other direction into deeper water.

 

Also, if the bass are deep, how about a Carolina rig? Give it a try.

 

The bass are still in the area around where they were comfortable in shallow water. They moved out into deeper water for what ever reason they did. Go figure.

 

Good luck.

[TnRiver46]

i am much more comfortable and successful fishing deep water. Then again, the water is deep up against the bank where I live. Just cast a Texas rig out there and drag it along the bottom. If you do this enough you will start getting bites in certain areas and put the puzzle pieces together. Sounds like one problem you may have encountered was fishing the same spot too long. Use your shallow water skills to cover water, even though it's deep. Instead of sitting on a point move all around it 

[Catt]

K.I.S.S. ?

 

You know what shallow areas hold fish?

 

Start there & do what @Sam said!

 

Look for deeper water near by, bet there's some!

 

What grass ya fishing?

Bet it grows offshore!

 

Y'all know there's a shallow water bite early but how many of y'all know there's an early bite deep as well. The early morning bite aint about water depth, it's about a predator taking advantage of changing light conditions & ambushing prey!

[Frogman]

Lots more great advice....Keep it coming.  

 

Questions

 

1.  If there is no thermocline, is there still a preferred depth range.  If my HB is marking fish or bait consistently at 12-15, do I start there?  What about cold water from late fall until spring time?

 

2.  My biggest issue with deep water (I think).  How long do you hang out and fish a spot before deciding to look for something else.  Being a shallow water fisherman, I make about 6-10 casts (if that), if I haven't been bit, I'm moving on down the line.

 

Obviously, Side Scan can be a huge help in this scenario since we are trying to locate structure under the water.  So we have determined the thermocline and where the fish are hanging out.  Do you guys just pull up to an area if the depth range and give an area a shot, or do you scan for structure and bait fish first?  Is there something that MUST be present for you to fish an area.  Bait?  Whatever structure you have patterned them to?  These questions seem silly I know.  I'm having to try really hard to learn patience and fish an area thoroughly.  I know some of these areas can be more productive than they are being for me, but I have trouble hanging out somewhere I don't have confidence in.

[lo n slo]

i love this kinda talk right here

[geo g]

3 hours ago, WRB said:

The terrain underwater doesn't change from what is above the water in a man made reservoir. When you drive to the lake the road is following structure because it's usually located on the valley floor winding along next to a creek or wider open areas with hills and additional valleys. 

When a dam is constructed the valley is filled with water covering the same terrian. Looking at topo maps of your area you can see the terrian changes in 3D and get a visual of what the map is showing using elevation lines.

Being able to interpret maps into a 3D visual is critical to the off shore angler. Today's sonar units do a good interpretation electronically but you still need to be able to see the big picture to put the terrian into perspective. 

Bass like changes in depth that give them an advantage to catch prey or use as a resting/sanctuary holding area. Largemouth Bass also like to be able to move up into shallower water and down into deeper water without needing to relocate a distance longer than a few hundred yards if possible, Smallmouth tend to roam further distances making more severe depth changes.

What I look for;

1. What depth are the bass and bait using now? I use my sonar unit in and around the marina to get some idea what depth the life zone is that day.

2. Where are the bass and bait most likely to be located based on seasonal preference.

The answer is what type of prey is most abundant during this time period, bass don't need to go deep if the prey is shallow and will not stay shallow if the prey is deeper. The reason is bass use their air bladder to neutralize bouyancy when resting, so there is a comfortable depth range you see when bass or baitfish are suspended and this depth is what I refer as the life zone you look for with sonar or visually.

So let's apply your shallow water knowledge to deeper water structure. Along the shore you look for places the bass uses to ambush prey like aquatic cover changes in weed types creating a hiding place. Deep structure has different elements that provide hiding places like rock piles, sharp breaks, stumps, trees, brush, undercuts, culverts, bridges, road beds, draws, old walls, fences, foundations and river/creek channels.

3. Meter before you start fishing. This is counter productive for shoreline anglers who like to stop and start fishing at good looking areas. The deep water angler is looking for fish on breaks trying to determine what depth to start at and what lures should be productive at those depths. When you reduce the lake to a depth zone the size shrinks quickly because few bass holding structures are present at any specific depth zone. Long points, humps, that have breaks like small flats and saddles are good starting areas.

Good luck.

Tom

 

 

Thanks Tom, always willing to share the knowledge!

[WRB]

If the life zone is 25’ I usually start looking at the 20’ elevation lines for example, this becomes my new shoreline near or off shore islands or underwater humps. If there is a large flat area at 20’ depth look for coves, points, draws etc associated or connected to that flat that create a deeper break just like the above water shoreline you are used to fishing. No bait, no bass no reason to stay.

Tom

[TnRiver46]

Just for an example, I'll talk about today (and recent days). As always, I turn on my graphs when I start fishing. Immediately they light up with fish. I formerly believed that the units were lying about fish being all around until I put on a diving mask and jumped into the water. The river is full of life and the graphs will find it. Problem is a lot of times it is marking gar carp bluegill catfish drum and everything else. This one spot I have been fishing always always always lights up the graph with suspended fish. And I always get bit on the bottom. I have tried cranking to where the suspended fish are, vertical jigging, deep diving suspending plugs, swimbaits counted down, nothing. Pick up a Texas rig and bam they eat it. I can use my graph to locate white bass and crappie but I hardly ever use it to find black bass prior to casting.  I Have caught a couple that I marked while trolling and they hit the plug a few seconds later. Basically I am saying you can find the fish a lot easier with fish hooks than you can with the graph, or the least I can. Now I have got on a few good deep bites and looked down at the graph after catching a few and it looked like a bowl of spaghetti on bottom (actively feeding smallmouth). This also differs from lake to lake but every time I fish the TN river with current the graphs are lit up with fish. Even if you turn the sensitivity way down it's still marking fish. Because they are there. Larger deep clear lakes that move slower I sometimes mark a bass and at least try to catch it but that's rare for me. i guess I should have asked this earlier, what kind of water are you fishing and in what part of the world?

[scaleface]

1 hour ago, Frogman said:

1.  If there is no thermocline, is there still a preferred depth range.  If my HB is marking fish or bait consistently at 12-15, do I start there?  What about cold water from late fall until spring time?

 

2.  My biggest issue with deep water (I think).  How long do you hang out and fish a spot before deciding to look for something else.  Being a shallow water fisherman, I make about 6-10 casts (if that), if I haven't been bit, I'm moving on down the line.

!. Thermoclines make it easier for me and it disappears in cold water . I dont have a clue about Alabama . If I see a lot of fish at a certain depth , thats a good place to start . Find them on a point  then fish up to the shallows and on   into the creek/cove is a good strategy . I like those creeks with a major point at its mouth .

 

2.  This late in the year there is not enough time to be  guessing where the fish are at . I'm going to hit a known deep area or two and if that dont work  then fish the banks . How long to stay on a deep spot ? I dont know , just play it by ear . 

 

  

[Team9nine]

A lot of successful anglers with a lot of successful approaches, but every water is different and some approaches may or may not work for you. Here's another to consider...

 

Structure, breaks and breaklines. If you don't know what they are, start by reading Spoonplugging by Buck Perry. Then, don't go deep looking for fish; go deep looking for these three features in the same place/area. That's referred to as a 'structure situation' (when combined with deep water). That's where you want to focus your attention to start. In these areas, cover all depths and speeds with whatever baits you want to use. You don't need to fish these areas long before moving on to the next. Revisit them several times a day, and on multiple days/trips. You'll quickly learn which spots are productive and when, and which ones aren't.

 

P.S. A thermocline is just a 'breakline,' so use it as one of the three things you're looking for, together.

[WRB]

Trying to catch suspended bass over deeper water without any bait in the area is futile because those bass are inactive, you learn the depth they are suspended and move over to structure at the depth looking for active bass close to the structure. Those same suspended bass will move over to nearby structure when they become active, they don't vanish.

It takes a long time to know the difference between sonar marks that are bass, carp, stripers, etc that have large air bladders moving slowly. Some key features are vertical stacked marks and long stretched out marks are rarely bass. Active bass are usually marks bunched close together that look attached to the structure or very close to it or very close to bait fish.

Thermoclines are horizontal water temperature breaks and often there are 2 seperated by current breaks if a reservior has aeration system or a power generation dam drawing water creating current. 

Lake Casitas for example has a aeration system and often sets up with 2 thermoclines at 30' and 60' during the summer in the dam area with bass occupying both zones. Some thermoclines are very dense within 2' thickness that can shut of DO reaching deeper layers, it's not cut and dry and bass can move up and down to feed. After turn over the water column mixes dissipating the thermocline, then preferred water temps become the key element and your sonar your freind, I believe you are fishing blind without it.

Tom

[Frogman]

2 hours ago, WRB said:

It takes a long time to know the difference between sonar marks that are bass, carp, stripers, etc that have large air bladders moving slowly. Some key features are vertical stacked marks and long stretched out marks are rarely bass. Active bass are usually marks bunched close together that look attached to the structure or very close to it or very close to bait fish

 

4 hours ago, TnRiver46 said:

As always, I turn on my graphs when I start fishing. Immediately they light up with fish. I formerly believed that the units were lying about fish being all around until I put on a diving mask and jumped into the water. The river is full of life and the graphs will find it. Problem is a lot of times it is marking gar carp bluegill catfish drum and everything else.

These are very true statements.  I've got over 2K in fish finders and sometimes I'm staring at them wondering if they are speaking a foreign language.  I see fish, but I can't always catch said fish.  Sometimes I wonder if the things even works!  I know I have a healthy population of striped bass in my home lake. I think a lot of times i confuse them for schooling spots.  I know that my units are key to my deep water success, or at least a great shortcut.  I have been spending a lot of time with them lately.  I was basically using them as a depth finder and a temp monitor like so many other shallow water guys.  I know a lot of fisherman, and I believe very few of them really know what they are looking at on those 10 to 12 inch screens.  I know I have a tough learning curve of figuring what is what, and what to target.  Right now I am mainly using them to educate myself of what is under the water.  I am looking for bait and structure on points and humps.  I'll scan and mark and come back at a later time to fish.  I don't usually pay much attention to "fish".  I know thats crazy, right?  

This is all great advice and greatly appreciated.  I am going to digest and apply these things to my fishing.  I will update you guys accordingly and let you know how it's going.  Thanks and keep em coming! 

[Catt]

8 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

Structure, breaks and breaklines. 

 

don't go deep looking for fish; go deep looking for these three features in the same place/area.

 

That's referred to as a 'structure situation' (when combined with deep water). That's where you want to focus your attention to start. In these areas, cover all depths and speeds with whatever baits you want to use.

 

You don't need to fish these areas long before moving on to the next. Revisit them several times a day, and on multiple days/trips. 

 

P.S. A thermocline is just a 'breakline,' so use it as one of the three things you're looking for, together.

 

K.I.S.S.  ?

 

[DINK WHISPERER]

I am in the exact same situation myself. I've always been a shallow water angler here in South Florida. The biggest thing I've found you need is learning to interpret your electronics. A Carolina rig has also been very helpful in finding fish. 

[frogflogger]

The simplest and most straight forward way to find bass in deep water is to troll. Learn to troll and you will learn more about fish behavior - depth and location and your body of water. I know with the popularity of tourn. fishing it has fallen out of favor but it can be an eye-opening experience. I know there are some spoon-pluggers on here  hopefully they will chime in -

What you learn trolling can then be utilized with the myriad deep water casting techniques available.

[scaleface]

18 minutes ago, frogflogger said:

The simplest and most straight forward way to find bass in deep water is to troll.

I like to troll large flats and  double the depths that crankbaits dive .  So if I'm trolling ten foot instead of using something like A Deep Little N that fishes well at 10 foot I'll go with something like a Rapala Fat Rap that I usually fish around 5 foot . I try to get the lure to bounce and deflect off the bottom , not dig in . Large flats always end somewhere , often at a cove . That drop off can be a good place .

[Team9nine]

9 hours ago, Frogman said:

 

I know that my units are key to my deep water success, or at least a great shortcut.

 

They are just a tool, albeit a very good one if kept in their rightful place. As you allude to though, if not understood or used correctly, you can waste a whole lot of time fishing for "fish" you see on your unit without much success. 

 

9 hours ago, Frogman said:

I am looking for bait and structure on points and humps.

Not to be snarky, but, "No you're not." Points and humps ARE structure. Whatever you're looking for on them isn't 'structure.' Terminology matters.

 

9 hours ago, Frogman said:

I don't usually pay much attention to "fish".  I know thats crazy, right?

Not at all. It's nice to see fish on the finder, but you still have to determine what kind, and whether you can get them to bite. It's much more important to understand the bottom layout first (structure, breaks and breaklines) than it is to see "fish," IMO.

[scaleface]

I plan on going the next couple of weeks if we get some good old Indian Summer weather . I expect there will not be a thermocline , its been pretty cold here . I dont fish below light penetration . Thats going to be about twenty maybe thirty feet where I fish . I "assume" this because I use to have a light/temp probe . The light and temp always plummeted at the thermocline and being the deepest the thermocline has been this year is twenty foot , that will probably be my maximum depth  . The first place I will check out is a point and   will fish it thoroughly .  This is a good bass producing spot    so any fish echoes I'm going to assume are bass . They might not be bass  but I'm not good enough to tell the difference . If this point doesnt produce then I'll  go shallow . There is one hole in the back of a creek that hasnt failed me in three years .Its approximately 6 foot deep surrounded by four to  five foot of water . It has produced at least one fish every visit . Its the remants of the old channel that    hasnt silted in completely .  Bass will pack in there at times , especially in the fall .

[JustJames]

Good stuffs here and follow closely. I'm in the same boat as OP. I recently moved to a bigger/deeper lake and struggling with bass in deep water.