Help us understand "feel" please.

[BigAngus752]

We have just started fishing shaky heads and other similar small "finesse" baits and we are struggling.  Clearly we don't have the correct set ups for that.  My wife was very frustrated as she missed at least five bites from SM on a deep, clear reservoir while fishing a shaky head.  I need to set up a rod/reel combo but I'm not sure where to go with it.  

 

Rod:  After searching the forum it seems like a ML and fast or extra fast is the correct rod for these finesse baits?

 

Reel:  Does the reel size matter for the "feel" we are looking for?  Is a 25 going to transmit more slight tics on the bait than a 35?  How about the quality or material of the reel?  My wife tried a Lew's Mach II and loved it.  I'm enamoured with the Revo SX spinning reel.  

 

Line:  Clearly this is highly important.  We are both huge fans of the feel of braid on a spinning reel and (for spinning only) we favor Spiderwire.  I'm thinking braid with a fluoro leader?  I just picked up some Sunline FC 16lb that I'm using as a leader for flipping/pitching.  Too heavy for finesse?  I love hybrid on our baitcasters.  How is that for finesse on a spinning reel?

 

Please give us the benefit of your experience!  Thanks

[The Bassman]

Feel is a very subjective topic.  That said the equipment you describe seems very well thought out.  Two things enhance feel for me.  1.  Tackle that is light in weight as possible.  2. A rod that is not "tip heavy".  Reel size would not affect sensitivity other than the effect of slightly more weight.

[Russ E]

I am probably in the minority but, most of my shakyhead fishing is done with a  medium action baitcaster and 12 lb sunline sniper fc. The sniper has a small diameter and in my opinion, works well for a finesse presentation.

I can cast a 1/8 oz head or larger with this setup.

i prefer the baitcaster over a spinning rod, because I can run the line over my index finger for added sensitivity.

I prefer the straight flourocarbon over a braid/flourocarbon leader, because braid is only sensitive with a tight line.

Straight flouro has excellent sensitivity on a semi slack line.

[WRB]

How do you know your wife missed at least 5 strikes? To determine that she needed to feel the bites and missed hook sets.

It's difficult to define "feel" because that involves a lot of factors comming together and how feel is defined. 

Definnng finesse is also difficult becuase it means different things to different anglers.

I will use Don Iovino's definition as he is a hall of fame bass angler known as the father of finesse fishing; Precision presentation of small lures on light tackle. The opposite would be flipping; Precision presentation of small lures on heavy tackle.

Doodling is a finesse presentation that uses baitcasting rod and reel, the rig is a small soft plastic worm 4" to 6", light wire straight shank size 1 to 1/0, 1/8 to 3/16 painted bullet sinker, 8mm glass bead, fast action medium graphite rod and small light weight reel, Don used a modified 2500C Ambassaduer with 6 lb Maxima Ultra Green line. Using this set up Iovino won enough bass tournaments, 7 fully rigged bass boat, to be voted into the fishing hall of fame.

1/8-1/4 oz shakey head jig and worm is very similar to Don's doodle rig and can be fished on the same tackle. 

My suggestion is buy Don's book Finesse Bass Fishing and the Sonar Connection, dated but good information on finesse fishing for bass.

Tom

[BigAngus752]

3 hours ago, The Bassman said:

Reel size would not affect sensitivity other than the effect of slightly more weight.

Thanks for answering that!

3 hours ago, Weedwhacker said:

most of my shakyhead fishing is done with a  medium action baitcaster

I have really considered this.  I've handled several brands in ML in the store and they just seem too light.  But again, no experience with the shaky heads and ned rigs.  

2 hours ago, WRB said:

How do you know your wife missed at least 5 strikes?

I was fishing a ned rig on the same trip (for the first time in my life) and I had two misses where clearly a SM had taken it and I felt the "spitting out", thus missing the hook set.  I've felt that before with LM.  What she described was the same thing.  Thank you for the reading suggestions.  What you said makes sense and I focused in your mention of graphite rods.  I have been looking at only graphite for this set up.  I've been hesitant on the ML and you guy are making me feel more confident in trying out a better quality medium than what we are using right now.  

[Russ E]

6 minutes ago, BigAngus752 said:

Thanks for answering that!

I have really considered this.  I've handled several brands in ML in the store and they just seem too light.  But again, no experience with the shaky heads and ned rigs.  

I use 1/4 oz bagley shakyheads with a 6 inch trick worm for most of my shakyhead fishing. I like a soft tipped medium action baitcaster for that. Don't care for medium light baitcasting rods.

the ned rig has much lighter hooks. I use a medium light spinning rod for that. A medium action rod can bend ned rig hooks.

[BigAngus752]

2 minutes ago, Weedwhacker said:

I use 1/4 oz bagley shakyheads with a 6 inch trick worm for most of my shakyhead fishing. I like a soft tipped medium action baitcaster for that. Don't care for medium light baitcasting rods.

the ned rig has much lighter hooks. I use a medium light spinning rod for that. A medium action rod can bend ned rig hooks.

Okay, that's important to know because I've got some 1/10 and 1/15 stuff and I'm using Zinker Zs cut in half.  Clearly I need to dedicate two different set ups to work the smaller stuff.  

[IndianaFinesse]

Sounds like you've already got a good start.  I'll echo your research on the 6'8"-7' medium lite (if you fish heavier shaky heads you might bump it to a medium) fast action rod, and I personally spool it with 8-10 pound braid, with or without a leader.  Some guys prefer ~6-10 pound straight flouro, but that is just personal preference.  Reel size will not affect sensitivity, only casting distance, speed, and fatigue.

 

BTW, that 16 pound hybrid will be a nightmare on spinning tackle.  If you don't want to use braid, don't go any heavier than 10 pound flouro/mono.

[Russ E]

17 minutes ago, BigAngus752 said:

Okay, that's important to know because I've got some 1/10 and 1/15 stuff and I'm using Zinker Zs cut in half.  Clearly I need to dedicate two different set ups to work the smaller stuff.  

If you are using the z man shroomz head, for the ned rig, you can lose a lot of bigger fish with a stiff rod. The light hooks on those jigs need a soft rod to keep bigger fish from bending the hook and pulling free.

I unfortunately learned that the hard way.

[BigAngus752]

12 minutes ago, IndianaFinesse said:

BTW, that 16 pound hybrid will be a nightmare on spinning tackle.  If you don't want to use braid, don't go any heavier than 10 pound flouro/mono.

Yup, only use that for leader on 30lb Suffix for flipping.  I figured it was too heavy for leader on a shaky head or ned rig.  I like 8lb braid on spinning reels.  I'll pick up lighter FC leader.  Thanks much.  Definitely going with two set ups.  One in a medium for the larger shaky heads and swim jigs and a ML for light shaky heads and all ned rigs.  Thanks

[Stephen B]

6 hours ago, BigAngus752 said:

We have just started fishing shaky heads and other similar small "finesse" baits and we are struggling.  Clearly we don't have the correct set ups for that.  My wife was very frustrated as she missed at least five bites from SM on a deep, clear reservoir while fishing a shaky head.  I need to set up a rod/reel combo but I'm not sure where to go with it.  

 

Rod:  After searching the forum it seems like a ML and fast or extra fast is the correct rod for these finesse baits?

 

Reel:  Does the reel size matter for the "feel" we are looking for?  Is a 25 going to transmit more slight tics on the bait than a 35?  How about the quality or material of the reel?  My wife tried a Lew's Mach II and loved it.  I'm enamoured with the Revo SX spinning reel.  

 

Line:  Clearly this is highly important.  We are both huge fans of the feel of braid on a spinning reel and (for spinning only) we favor Spiderwire.  I'm thinking braid with a fluoro leader?  I just picked up some Sunline FC 16lb that I'm using as a leader for flipping/pitching.  Too heavy for finesse?  I love hybrid on our baitcasters.  How is that for finesse on a spinning reel?

 

Please give us the benefit of your experience!  Thanks

Buy a NRX 822S SYR and run a quality 20-30 lb braid to a 8-10  flouro leader. Problem solved.

 

The rod was specifically designed for throwing shakeyheads. The sensitivity is top notch. Look for a used NRX on ebay.

[Mjmj]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:19 PM, BigAngus752 said:

 

most of my shakyhead fishing is done with a  medium action baitcaster

Everyone has an opinion on baitcaster vs spinning. That's ok. It's what makes the world go round. ? My personal preference is a baitcaster, for the same reason "I can run the line over my index finger for added sensitivity" .  If you are really considering using a baitcaster setup, this is the rod for you. 

 

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/catpage-MJRRODS.html?from=basres

[BigAngus752]

9 hours ago, Stephen B said:

Buy a NRX 822S SYR and run a quality 20-30 lb braid to a 8-10  flouro leader. Problem solved.

 

The rod was specifically designed for throwing shakeyheads. The sensitivity is top notch. Look for a used NRX on ebay.

Okay!  Let me go buy a ski mask and a getaway car....LOL

[WRB]

My cut off from bait casting to spinning is 1/8 oz total lure weight including the soft plastic. I use 5 lb Maxima Ultra Green on my spinning finesse tackle, no braid.

I mentioned Don Iovino for a few reasons, 1) his book is a hand book for finesse bass fishing, 2) his Major Craft Finesse rods are designed for finesse bass fishing. The spinning rod is ideal for light weight lure presentations and his new Splash-It rod ideal for shaking finesse jigs or doodling and for top water or medium diving crank baits under 3/4 oz.

To shake bottom lures in place you need a rod with a specific tip flexing and enough backbone to set hooks and control bass.

Tom

[WRB]

The importance of a flexible tip finesse rod is 2 fold, proper action to cast and work small light weight jigs, small soft plastics and to detect strikes. This gets us to the OP's opening question "feel". 

With finesse fishing the rod should be able to bend at the tip under very light pressure because most strike are pressure bites. The bass see's the lure and strikes it without moving, you must be able to feel or see the line tighten up changing the tension. If you are shaking the rod tip into semi slack line jiggling the jig or soft plastic and the slack tightens up that is your strike indicator, you may not feel a tap. If the rod tip is too stiff the bass detects the rod pressure before you do and you miss the hook set.

Tom

[Further North]

"Feel" is different for every one.

 

It will depend on equipment, , line, lures, experience...

 

...and what you're trying to achieve.

[LCG]

Most of the finnese stuff like neko, ned, shaky head use a small diameter hook that does not require a strong hook set in my experience. A simple reel set or sweeping hook set seems to work best for me. 

 

I personally use a ml-f spinning rod and a m-xf spinning rod for finesse and usually don't have any issues with hook sets or bite detection. I also use 10 lb yellow braid (for my own visibility) to 6-8 lb fluorocarbon leaders. I generally fish drop shot, neko, ned, and a Texas rigged worm, with some shakey head but not much.