What is fishing rod sensitivity?

[WRB]

58 minutes ago, fishindad said:

Tom, thanks for starting this topic. What some forget as you mention is that the high end rods, at least those rolled within the US, are rolled by hand. Sure the mandrels may be close to identical and the graphite may be cut (by hand) almost identical but at that level even a minute variation is magnified from finished blank to finished blank. As you mention add in the handles and guides, again secured by hand, and the finished product is surely going to have some slight variation, however slight. I am sure those of us who have purchased a duplicate or triplicate of our "favorite" rods find that even they have a slight difference in feel!

That's what blows me away about the Elite pros, how they can switch rod sponsors and get dialed in so quickly to the feel of a new set of rods - whether they be better quality or worse (see AMart, lol).

And to your comment about losing your sense of touch in old age (I'm 59 so my apologies if you're younger than I am) I find that my sense of feel hasn't (yet) dulled but the amount of hours I can stay on the water has decreased and the amount of muscle aches and pains the next morning has increased. If I try fishing >6 hours, especially in the middle of Summer, I cannot focus because I'm so tired/fatigued. I know his 'job' is fishing but I really respect Larry Nixon for still competing with the "young guns" at his age.

Back on topic, I wonder what fishing an NRX rod feels like to lady anglers, given their innate, heightened sensitivity, compared to us cretins.

I am 15 years older so no Appology needed. My rods are a combination of several different brands, only 3 are the same ALX custom NG+ jig/worm rods. As DVT noted the ALX are crisp 5 & 6 power fast blanks, the finished rods weigh 3.8 oz, specialized for my type of jig fishing. If you keep in contact with the line changing rods doesn't have a major impact on strike detection. If you can't detect the slightest strikes you miss bass, some of us have good tactile sensitivity, some exceptional and others poor tactile feel.

Tom

[Jaderose]

On 10/12/2017 at 9:39 PM, WRB said:

 

I managed to catch over 100 DD size bass before using graphite rods! How was that possible using vintage tackle like fiberglass rods and monofilament line?

Tom

It isn't.  You were hallucinating.  Just like it also isn't possible to catch bass without thousands of dollars worth of electronics and CERTAINLY not without filming the experience.

 

[K_Mac]

WRB, I don't think a new bass fisherman needs high-end gear to be effective. I don't think an expert needs it either. 

 

Today's rods, reels, and lines are extremely good at almost all levels. I do think mid-level gear is often a better value than entry-level gear in performance and durability. 

 

With that said, some of today's high-end rods are amazing in weight and sensitivity in my opinion. They are outside of my budget, but I generally hold my own with my more budget friendly stuff. Some of the better rods are a joy to use and make a long day on the water more enjoyable. It's hard to put a price on that.

 

I agree with Team9nine that sensitivity is a quantifiable measurement. I also agree with Catt that there are folks who can't tell the difference in an old glass rod and a new quality graphite one, other than they might notice one is a little heavier than the other. For those folks, one rod is as good as any other.

[Boomstick]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 12:22 AM, WRB said:

Catt made the reference if you give a state if the art rod to someone who doesn't have any experience the sensitivity feedback is lost because of lack of experience to interpret what's being processed by the uneducated brain.

So now we enter the realm of experience verses inexperience, should a inexperienced angler buy high end rods? 

Tom

That's a subjective question. I could say perhaps not because what if the person doesn't like fishing? On the other hand, I bought my first higher end, actually mid-grade rod earlier this year and at the time I wouldn't have been able to tell you what I was feeling at the bottom. But at the time I also knew that I was going to learn soon enough.

 

 

[hawgenvy]

Sensitivity is likely something that can be measured objectively, but first it has to be defined more precisely. In other words, what exactly is sensitivity? From the  angling perspective, we may say it is the ability to manually detect acceleration that occurs at the end of the fishing line. In the realm of materials science it may have some relationship to vibration transmission, and that will vary in any one particular rod with the frequency of the vibration. Perhaps if we can identify the frequency (probably low frequency) of the transmitted vibrations that we would encounter in bass fishing, and duplicate those vibrations in the lab upon a line extending from the end of a rod, we can easily (by means of a simple vibration meter placed at the reel seat) measure the amplitude of the transmitted vibrations. We could then compare it between rods.

 

The problem remains, though, whether such measurement will reveal any valuable information that relates to the subjective feel, effectiveness, or fishing enjoyment of any rod.

 

I have always wondered what parameters are used by rod blank manufacturers, and by the major rod makers who chose the blanks. Probably trade secrets that we will never be privy to.

 

My favorite rods, out of the three or four brands that I have fished with extensively, are the Dobyns Champion series, which seem to me light and sensitive, and give me a sense of liveliness, fun, and confidence when fighting a fish. But, who knows?, it's probably all in my head.

[WRB]

There isn't any vibration sine waves traveling up the line through water because water that dampens it. What we feel in line moving longitudinal not axial under water. 

Sensitivity is line movement through the guides into the rod blank or onto your finger tips. Materials that further dampen line movements like fiberglass reduce whatever we can feel. High modulous graphite fishing rods can attenuate the line movements increasing what we feel.

Some of us have higher sense of tactile feel and some don't, most of us are average. Some can feel a ant crawling on their skin other can't feel the ant bite them!

High end rods will never benefit some anglers and help others tremdously, most of us just like to have good toys.

Tom

[Yumeya]

All I know is that the NRX "to me" is the most sensitive rod I have used.

 

The amount of vibration I feel is amazing, the second is a megabass destroyer rod.....

[Deleted account]

A Stradivarius isn't going to do anything for some one who can't play scales, conversely, a virtuoso can make beautiful music with a High School rental instrument. Somewhere in there is a happy medium (or is it medium heavy?)

 

 

[tholmes]

My test for fishing rod sensitivity is simple.

Does it cry when you say mean things about it?

 

Tom

[Angry John]

On 10/13/2017 at 9:21 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

There is a component of the CCS rod measuring system that measured blank speed , as in recovery speed, not action. This is commonly referred to as the "crispness" of the rod and affects sensitivity. To what level it's detectable by an individual obviously can't be known. The proof is always and will always be in on-the -water use. 

Speed of the rod seems to be a small factor with faster actions giving me more feeling.

[RPreeb]

I find this topic interesting.  As a long time golfer, I've found that graphite shafts in golf clubs actually reduce feel and dampen vibration compared to a steel shaft, yet graphite fishing rods enhance feel according to most of the comments here.  I can't confirm or deny that because at this point in my bass fishing, I don't have the experience to know what I'm feeling - I make a lot of false hook sets.   I plan to buy a "decent" rod next spring to compare to the Ugly Stik that I'm using at the moment.  Maybe then I'll have a better tool to judge what is happening at the business end of my line.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The golf club isn't a good analogy because, it's a club. Stiffness/weight ratio in a rod affects sensitivity. Graphite being stiffer and lighter than glass, tends to be more sensitive. It makes sense that a stiffer club would be more sensitive. A rod can't be made too stiff or it won't load to cast  or fight fish effectively. 

[Fishin Dad]

Golf is an interesting analogy.   I am a golf coach and club maker.  I agree that graphite shafts dampen vibration in the golf swing.   I will also say that with graphite being lighter weight (like a quality rod), it enhances the "feel" and awareness of where the club head is in the swing.  In essence, the club head (we call it swingweight in golf) feels heavier because the shaft is lighter.   I feel the same way in fishing.   I FEEL the bite more with a lighter weight rod.   

[shamanjp]

I know I am late to it but I really enjoyed this thread. Thanks to everyone here. I firmly believe that interpretation of what is felt is much more important than the level of sensitivity and fine tuning that is what experience provides. Here's to working on that!