Blank Sensitivity?

[Andy007]

Blank price vs sensitivity?

I’m going to build a 6’10 to7’2 extra fast for light t-rigs.  I have a blank picked but after more digging on the web I have a sensitivity question.

St Croix, MHX and Rainshadow (and others) have a similar blank Action, length, line wt. and blank weight.

How does a MHX compare to a revelation blank   (about $75)

   MHX high modulus to immortal to Eternity2 or SCIII               (about 100-130 dollars)

Or the above to a St Croix SCV         (about 200 bucks)                           

This will be one of my most used rods and don’t mind spending more for noticeable

sensitivity increase.

I guess my question is the differences miner or huge?

I know this a question that will vary from person to person and hand to hand just generally speaking.

 

Thanks for your opinions

....

 

 

[MickD]

You'll get a lot of opinions on this one.  Here is mine.  Sensitivity can vary a lot depending on the build, mostly the weight of the guides in the upper third or half of the rod.  It can make a significant, easily felt, difference.  I believe that the overall weight can affect felt sensitivity too, but not as much as the top guide weights.  Fancy, long , wraps can add unwanted weight.  Butt wraps are less an issue due to their position on the rod.  I also believe that harder grip materials, like carbon fiber and burl cork (but it's heavier than regular cork, a trade-off?) vs regular cork, or especially soft EVA, are more sensitive.  Don't believe that hard materials don't feel good-the big thing is shape.  With a rigid ramp off the front of a spin seat you are in essence putting you fingers on the blank.  Put a big front grip on, and that will detract from feel/sensitivity if your fingers are on it and not on the blank.

 

Last question- are the differences minor or major?  I think they are more toward minor than major.  I've built a lot of blanks on RX7 material and they have been great.  I've built AmTac Bushido blanks into rods and they too have been very sensitive, and they are to the low end of the cost spectrum.  I have little experience with MHX, but what I have has been positive.  

[roadwarrior]

I have two Rainshadow Immortals and two Eternity2. My hands really can not distinguish between

these blanks and the G. Loomis GLX series.  That said, I will recommend the Eternity2. I am quite

sure you will be VERY pleased.

 

 

[Andy007]

41 minutes ago, MickD said:

You'll get a lot of opinions on this one.  Here is mine.  Sensitivity can vary a lot depending on the build, mostly the weight of the guides in the upper third or half of the rod.  It can make a significant, easily felt, difference.  I believe that the overall weight can affect felt sensitivity too, but not as much as the top guide weights.  Fancy, long , wraps can add unwanted weight.  Butt wraps are less an issue due to their position on the rod.  I also believe that harder grip materials, like carbon fiber and burl cork (but it's heavier than regular cork, a trade-off?) vs regular cork, or especially soft EVA, are more sensitive.  Don't believe that hard materials don't feel good-the big thing is shape.  With a rigid ramp off the front of a spin seat you are in essence putting you fingers on the blank.  Put a big front grip on, and that will detract from feel/sensitivity if your fingers are on it and not on the blank.

 

Last question- are the differences minor or major?  I think they are more toward minor than major.  I've built a lot of blanks on RX7 material and they have been great.  I've built AmTac Bushido blanks into rods and they too have been very sensitive, and they are to the low end of the cost spectrum.  I have little experience with MHX, but what I have has been positive.  

Yes I will be using small and light running guides toward the tip, carbon fiber or cork foregrip, make the rod balance where I what and no fancy wraps just a rod for function.

45 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

I have two Rainshadow Immortals and two Eternity2. My hands really can not distinguish between

these blanks and the G. Loomis GLX series.  That said, I will recommend the Eternity2. I am quite

sure you will be VERY pleased.

 

 

Much difference between the Immortal and Eternity2?

[roadwarrior]

All four of my rods have different Power and Action, so I cannot make a direct comparison,

but in my hands the sensitivity is about the same. 

[MickD]

One thing that Eternity 2 has that the others may not is the nano technology which is claimed to provide tougher blanks.  The top St Croix blanks have their version of this.  Probably others, but I'm not sure.  If I were to to build right now and my goal was max sensitivity, with what I think I know, it would be Eternity 2 or Point Blank.  I would use the Fuji KlH guide system with 4.5 or 5 runners, the reduction guides to be determined by the likely braid pound test I would be using.  If you're not talking braid, the blank selection is not nearly as important for sensitivity.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Sensitivity is the human sense of feel which varies from person to person. There's no way to measure but in a rod , weight is the enemy of potential sensitivity. When considering one blank over another ,in addition to length, power and action all being equal I look for the lightest weight. Like Mick said a good build can get super results from a upper mid level blank and a poor build can make the best blank feel dead. 

[spoonplugger1]

Remember the job doesn't stop with the rod, as mentioned before every component you put on the blank makes a difference, they become part of the whole. This goes for everything you do after you've built the rod, when you clamp a reel on it, it becomes part of the rod, just as integrated into your fishing tool as the rest of the components. Sensitivity and balance is affected as much by the reel as the rod, so buying a reel should happen with the rod it's going on. Fly anglers has known this for decades. I don't go to a sportsman's show without a pocket full of reels to sample rods and a few rods, if I' m looking for reels.

[Andy007]

1 hour ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Sensitivity is the human sense of feel which varies from person to person. There's no way to measure but in a rod , weight is the enemy of potential sensitivity. When considering one blank over another ,in addition to length, power and action all being equal I look for the lightest weight. Like Mick said a good build can get super results from a upper mid level blank and a poor build can make the best blank feel dead. 

I will be using some of the handle components like Mick suggested and small and light running guides. This will be a spiral wrapped casting rod and when done will be balanced and hopefully light tipped.

For an example Rainshadow makes a 6'10mxf in the Immortal and Eternity2, the spec's are close except the immortal weighs about 20% more(1.4 vs 1.7 oz) and the eternity cost double.  I agree and believe that excess blank weight is a killer but I would hope buy spending more also increases material quality? You have lots of experience with different blanks, do you think sensitivity has more to do with weight or materials?

What do you consider a upper mid level blank? Examples?

 

Thanks

[MickD]

If I remember right, you mentioned that cost was not a big consideration.  So spend whatever it takes to get you what you think is the best blank available.  Consider that your kids will pay for it through less inheritance, and if you brought them up right, they will not begrudge it.  Also, consider that one of them will get the rod which will last them a lifetime if they take care of it properly.  And it will be special to the them.

 

I provide this advice based on experience.  I've done it a number of times.  Consider a little more advice.  You cannot have too many rods.  Learn from this one and have another go at the next, better, rod.  This rod is not world peace.  It's a rod.

 

To answer your questions, .3 oz will not make a blank a "slug."  All the blanks in the that weight range (~ 1.8 oz)  will build into a fine rod.  Weight depends on a lot of factors of blank design and construction.  I do believe the more expensive materials make better rods, but I have a lot of nice rods from $75 blanks.  I have started with many blanks in the 1.7 to 1.9 weight range, and they all are fine rods.  The weight of the finished rod will be about 2 oz more than the blank weight, assuming a 1 oz reel seat and 1 oz for cork/carbon fiber/EVA etc and guides/wraps.  This is for an efficient design without a lot of excess cork (split grip/no foregrip).  A little more for burl cork, a little less for a skeleton seat (which I don't recommend due to poor ergonomics/comfort) or carbon fiber.

 

Go for it!

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

8 hours ago, Andy007 said:

I will be using some of the handle components like Mick suggested and small and light running guides. This will be a spiral wrapped casting rod and when done will be balanced and hopefully light tipped.

For an example Rainshadow makes a 6'10mxf in the Immortal and Eternity2, the spec's are close except the immortal weighs about 20% more(1.4 vs 1.7 oz) and the eternity cost double.  I agree and believe that excess blank weight is a killer but I would hope buy spending more also increases material quality? You have lots of experience with different blanks, do you think sensitivity has more to do with weight or materials?

What do you consider a upper mid level blank? Examples?

 

Thanks

Material makes a difference in the weight savings. You'll likely notice a crisper feel in higher quality blanks. $100 is probably in the upper end of mid level blank cost. 

[Angry John]

One builder I have talked to many times considered 3 blanks top tier.  NFC, ST CROIX SC5 AND PHOENIX K2.  This is what he considered the no compromise blanks for the best result.  There are some newer blanks since we talked like point blank but the list for best remains small.  Depending on your volume you may get discounts on brands that may make one of the top blanks a lot cheaper than the others. The top tier does not have to be supper expensive if you find a good special or closeout.

[Andy007]

14 hours ago, MickD said:

If I remember right, you mentioned that cost was not a big consideration.  So spend whatever it takes to get you what you think is the best blank available.  Consider that your kids will pay for it through less inheritance, and if you brought them up right, they will not begrudge it.  Also, consider that one of them will get the rod which will last them a lifetime if they take care of it properly.  And it will be special to the them.

Cost is a factor; I can afford a 400 dollar rod but try to find good value for the buck. I believe with the fierce competition in the fishing world if the correct components are purchased and assembled correctly the final product will perform close for much less. I’m one of those that over question and research things, but this rod will be used hundreds of times and catch thousands of fish! That makes an extra $50 for a rod seam irrelevant, but that just me.

Soon enough I will start blowing the kids inheritance but maybe till then if they’re looking for Christmas Ideas? 

Thanks Mick, DVT and others for your input, Good advise given by many on these boards!

I'll try to do a follow up next year after the ice melts
 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

NFC, scV and k2 are all high end blanks no doubt. Cost is artificially high though. St Croix and Phoenix both have to protect their retail rod lines and NFC commands a high price due to the Loomis name. Of the three, ST Croix would be my choice. 

[kickerfish1]

K2 or Point Blank if you want something less costly.