towing with a small suv?

[Angry John]

I had one of these before my wife totaled it and it was great including towing.  If i recall correctly it had a towing capacity of 3500 and tons of power.  Fits in your price range of 20k.  Easy in and out for family and when empty i could get over 30 a gallon.  https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=464171165&zip=38134&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D38134%26startYear%3D1981%26maxMileage%3D60000%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceASC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2015%26modelCodeList%3DSIENNA%26makeCodeList%3DTOYOTA%26searchRadius%3D0%26driveGroup%3DAWD4WD&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2015&modelCodeList=SIENNA&makeCodeList=TOYOTA&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=TOYOTA&modelCode1=SIENNA

[RPreeb]

22 hours ago, MickD said:

 Your 150 is as magic as the Impala of a friend of mine, 40 mph overall for three years.  I advise you both to keep them.  I doubt if you will  do as well with the next one.  At least for the non-towing vs towing.  But that 17.8 while not towing is pretty low.

 

The difficulty is driving the same for all comparisons.

My 2016 F-150 with 3.5 4x4 Ecoboost gets between 18 and 19 mpg in general driving, 20-21 highway in summer with the cruise usually at 80 on the interstate - mileage is about 1 mpg less on average in winter. 

 

When towing my 24 foot camping trailer I get 8-10 mpg depending on wind.  I've never towed a boat so I can't say what mileage I'd get with that - it would certainly be more than with the camper, but I very much doubt that it would get 17 mpg.

 

I never tow at more than 65 mph (cheap OEM trailer tires  ), but with 365 horses and 420 lb/ft of torque I have power to spare for dragging my camper up any mountain pass in Colorado at whatever the legal speed is, and that's more of concern to me than a mile or two per gallon.

[gim]

8 minutes ago, RPreeb said:

My 2016 F-150 with 3.5 4x4 Ecoboost gets between 18 and 19 mpg in general driving, 20-21 highway in summer with the cruise usually at 80 on the interstate - mileage is about 1 mpg less on average in winter. 

I don't have a V6 ecoboost.  Mine is a V8 5.0 Liter.

[Further North]

On 10/7/2017 at 7:38 PM, gimruis said:

I tracked the mileage electronically with both vehicles.  The Escape labored and mileage dropped by 45%.  The mileage goes from 17.8 to 17.7 with the F-150.  I'm not making these numbers up, they are directly from the Ford product when I am driving.

 

I'm not denying that the Escape or other small SUV gets better mileage when not towing.  That's pretty obvious.

I had the same thing happen on a Ford Expedition several vehicles ago...towing relatively light loads had little impact on MPG, it just sucked all the time...

 

Side note: I'm amazed* that a lot of people seem to buy vehicles for things they do a low percentage of the time and absorb the impact of that every day.  That's why we looked so hard when be bought the Escape...I tow my boat considerably less than 10% of the time I drive the vehicle...I didn't want to deal with the cost penalty of having a full size SUV of pick-up truck on a daily basis** if there was a way to get the job done another way.

 

*"Amazed" isn't really the right word...more like wondering why more people don't look into alternatives.

**1) They cost more up front with similar equipment levels, by a significant margin. 2) They cost more to operate.

[RPreeb]

8 minutes ago, Further North said:

I had the same thing happen on a Ford Expedition several vehicles ago...towing relatively light loads had little impact on MPG, it just sucked all the time...

 

Side note: I'm amazed* that a lot of people seem to buy vehicles for things they do a low percentage of the time and absorb the impact of that every day.  That's why we looked so hard when be bought the Escape...I tow my boat considerably less than 10% of the time I drive the vehicle...I didn't want to deal with the cost penalty of having a full size SUV of pick-up truck on a daily basis** if there was a way to get the job done another way.

 

*"Amazed" isn't really the right word...more like wondering why more people don't look into alternatives.

**1) They cost more up front with similar equipment levels, by a significant margin. 2) They cost more to operate.

I haven't found that it's significantly more expensive to maintain my F-150 than it is my wife's Edge.  Oil changes and the multi-point checks that they do when I take it in for the oil change are about all of the regular maintenance required.  Tires may be a bit higher because of size, but I only buy them about every 4 years, so the amortized cost difference is minimal in the long run.  I find it very handy to have a truck for a lot more than just towing the camper.  I also have access to a couple of utility trailers in which I haul stuff a few times a year.  Living a very small town (400 people) in a rural environment makes a recreational level pickup a very logical choice for a daily driver.

 

And for me the creature comforts are a real selling point.  Driving my truck is like kicking back in an easy chair.  Large, comfortable seats, plenty of room for 5 adults, good sound system, backup camera for easy hitching, manual 4 wheel drive so I control when and where.  Plus, I just like driving it.  The 600 mile cruising range with a 36 gallon tank means that for a lot of my driving, even for weekend trips, I don't need to find gas while on the road.  Even when towing the camper, we drove from SE of Des Moines, IA to home in NE Colorado (600 miles) with just one gas stop along the way, and still arrived with more than 1/4 tank left.

 

Lots of positives that more than balance any loss of mileage and a little more difficulty in some parking lots, which are really the only negatives that affect me.  

[TOXIC]

Least everyone forget that all it takes is one major repair from towing with a smaller vehicle (transmission, differential, etc.) to completely zero out any savings in MPG.  And just because it's rated to tow doesn't mean it's designed to tow which means more in maintenance costs like brakes, oil changes and overall wear and tear.  I tow a lot and at one time towed a 20 foot boat with a V8 Ford Explorer.  Was it "rated" for the weight?  Sure it was, even had the tow package but I put that vehicle to an early death and moved on to a truck.  I tow a 21ft Heavy Ranger now and started with a 3/4 ton HD truck and more recently dropped down to 1/2 ton with an 8 speed transmission and Active Fuel Management which increased my MPG towing and I'm not tearing up the vehicle doing it.  As long as you know going in what the risks are, then more power to ya!!  

[BrianinMD]

20 hours ago, RPreeb said:

I haven't found that it's significantly more expensive to maintain my F-150 than it is my wife's Edge.  Oil changes and the multi-point checks that they do when I take it in for the oil change are about all of the regular maintenance required.  Tires may be a bit higher because of size, but I only buy them about every 4 years, so the amortized cost difference is minimal in the long run.  I find it very handy to have a truck for a lot more than just towing the camper.  I also have access to a couple of utility trailers in which I haul stuff a few times a year.  Living a very small town (400 people) in a rural environment makes a recreational level pickup a very logical choice for a daily driver.

 

And for me the creature comforts are a real selling point.  Driving my truck is like kicking back in an easy chair.  Large, comfortable seats, plenty of room for 5 adults, good sound system, backup camera for easy hitching, manual 4 wheel drive so I control when and where.  Plus, I just like driving it.  The 600 mile cruising range with a 36 gallon tank means that for a lot of my driving, even for weekend trips, I don't need to find gas while on the road.  Even when towing the camper, we drove from SE of Des Moines, IA to home in NE Colorado (600 miles) with just one gas stop along the way, and still arrived with more than 1/4 tank left.

 

Lots of positives that more than balance any loss of mileage and a little more difficulty in some parking lots, which are really the only negatives that affect me.  

I am in the same mind set, have a 2017 F150 3.5Eco, sure towing my boat is small percentage of actual driving but comes in handy for some many things. Plus its a very comfortable vehicle to drive, 5 adults sit comfortably, 20.7mpg on all driving, truck bed for hauling things I would not want inside a vehicle, the 10 speed trans is very smooth, and the 36 gallon take is just great.

 

Only downside I have is the parking in some lots also, but found its easier to back in especially with the backup camera on the 7 inch screen.

[THE_Vue's]

I tow with my Nitro 640 thats about 2200lbs boat with my 05 Honda Pilot.  Its rated for 3500lbs and has a 8 passenger great family car at the same time too.  The Pilots are fairly cheap right now in these year models.  But the 09 and up pilot are even better with gas mileage due to the variable cylinder management, cancels out a piston to save gas.  And these are also rated up to 3500 with the tow package and AWD.

[Lures'n'Liberty]

Seeing a few topics of maintenance, sometimes the bigger trucks are cheaper to maintain in the long term. It's out of the realm of the SUV, but to give an example, front brake pads and rotors for a half ton truck are $100 while the front pads and rotors for a 3/4-1 ton are $150. Front brakes on the 1/2 ton last 15,000 mi and the rotors are shot, front brakes on the 1 ton last 30,000 mi and the rotors are ready to wear out a second set of pads. These aren't 100% accurate numbers nor do they carry over to every brand on the market or driving style but a pretty accurate description of the cost and wear ratio.

[Further North]

4 hours ago, BaitFinesse said:

Another option would be to NOT daily drive the tow vehicle.  Maybe have a nice older truck paid in cash that is used to pull the boat, plow the driveway and dive in bad winters then have a regular car for regular daily driving use.  

 

Don't want two car payments?  Then don't.  Buy what you can afford.  If you can't pay cash then that means you can't afford it.

That' works for a lot of people in this area...I ran the numbers on it (using vehicles I found that I wouldn't mind making a 2,000 mile round trip in) and, for us, going with the Escape was an easy winner, dollar wise.  It's useful to know that I use my tractor to run a 4 ft. wide snowblower for the driveway, and our vehicles are AWD, so there's no need for a bad weather vehicle...those things change the equation a bit.

 

...and with all three stalls of our garage already full, it would have had to sit outside.  That drives me nuts...no can do.

[TOXIC]

13 hours ago, Lures'n'Liberty said:

Seeing a few topics of maintenance, sometimes the bigger trucks are cheaper to maintain in the long term. It's out of the realm of the SUV, but to give an example, front brake pads and rotors for a half ton truck are $100 while the front pads and rotors for a 3/4-1 ton are $150. Front brakes on the 1/2 ton last 15,000 mi and the rotors are shot, front brakes on the 1 ton last 30,000 mi and the rotors are ready to wear out a second set of pads. These aren't 100% accurate numbers nor do they carry over to every brand on the market or driving style but a pretty accurate description of the cost and wear ratio.

For a real world example on brakes (the most important part of the towing equation IMHO), my 3/4 ton Silverado HD 4X4 spent it's life towing a 21 foot Ranger and a 3 horse trailer.  I changed the pads and rotors at 159,000 miles right before I traded it in.  They were due but still had life.   We will see how my 2016 1/2 ton does but its only got 15,000 on it right now.  I will say I can feel the difference in stopping power between the 2 and is the only thing I miss from my old truck.  Smaller vehicles, smaller components so govern yourself accordingly.  

[jbmaine]

Thanks for all the replies and advise,

In our situation, my wife is a short disabled women with bad knees. She cannot climb up into a vehicle, so we are held captive to a smaller SUV. We are also a single income family and cannot afford a second vehicle. Right now we are around 35 miles from our fishing spots on mostly level ground. Within a couple of yrs we plan on moving to within 10-15 minutes of our fishing spots so the wear and tear from towing a boat with a smaller SUV should be minimal. If we could afford it, and my wife could drive it , I would have a pickup in a heart beat.

                                                                               Jim

 

 

[Lures'n'Liberty]

1 hour ago, jbmaine said:

Thanks for all the replies and advise,

In our situation, my wife is a short disabled women with bad knees. She cannot climb up into a vehicle, so we are held captive to a smaller SUV. We are also a single income family and cannot afford a second vehicle. Right now we are around 35 miles from our fishing spots on mostly level ground. Within a couple of yrs we plan on moving to within 10-15 minutes of our fishing spots so the wear and tear from towing a boat with a smaller SUV should be minimal. If we could afford it, and my wife could drive it , I would have a pickup in a heart beat.

                                                                               Jim

 

 

Ever think about a lowered truck? Just food for thought, but a lowering kit and/or some running boards may make it easy for your wife to drive a truck. Your mileage may vary with some of the other models but I know you can lower a Tacoma 4x4 pretty easily without causing problems in the future. It may also be worth your while to test drive a Honda Ridgeline.  *truck in ad below is first $15k double cab I found on craigslist in Maine.

https://www.andysautosport.com/products/djm_suspension__DJM2806-3.html  https://maine.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2007-toyota-tacoma-v6-4dr/6326677007.html

[Lures'n'Liberty]

2 hours ago, TOXIC said:

For a real world example on brakes (the most important part of the towing equation IMHO), my 3/4 ton Silverado HD 4X4 spent it's life towing a 21 foot Ranger and a 3 horse trailer.  I changed the pads and rotors at 159,000 miles right before I traded it in.  They were due but still had life.   We will see how my 2016 1/2 ton does but its only got 15,000 on it right now.  I will say I can feel the difference in stopping power between the 2 and is the only thing I miss from my old truck.  Smaller vehicles, smaller components so govern yourself accordingly.  

A 2500HD is actually a one ton with a slightly lower weight rating for registration purposes, hence the "HD" designation. When GM brought out the 2500HD, sales on the actual 3/4 ton 2500 were so poor that they discontinued it at about the same time Ford did away with the goofy light duty 7 lug F-250, the only truck made since that's actually a 3/4 ton is the new Nissan Titan HD. Did you buy the HD new? That's pretty unbelievable to get over 100k out of a set of brake pads on anything, although I would be inclined to believe it if a second brake job was done with Wagner Severe Duty (not the standard Wagner) brake pads and rotors, they stop extremely well and last an incredibly long time, IMHO they're the best investment you can make when servicing a '99 & newer Chevy truck, especially if you don't just use it to pull your ghost trailer. As for the difference in stopping power, you're in 2 different classes. All 2500 & up GM trucks have what's called Hydroboost, it's a hydraulic brake booster that runs off of your power steering pump whereas 1500 trucks use the more common vacuum style booster. If you do a little research and have some skills at spinning wrenches, you can get everything you need to upgrade your half ton to hydroboost at a good salvage yard for a pretty reasonable price, too. 

[Lures'n'Liberty]

On 10/10/2017 at 4:32 PM, BaitFinesse said:

Another option would be to NOT daily drive the tow vehicle.  Maybe have a nice older truck paid in cash that is used to pull the boat, plow the driveway and dive in bad winters then have a regular car for regular daily driving use.  

 

Don't want two car payments?  Then don't.  Buy what you can afford.  If you can't pay cash then that means you can't afford it.

Also a good call. I keep spare vehicles around, they really don't eat much and the peace of mind that comes with knowing there's another way to work sitting in the back yard is well worth the annual cost of registration. I don't plan on taking my '92 S-10 with space shuttle miles on any 300 mile fishing trips any time soon but when I've got to haul a load off to the dump, go fetch some landscape supplies and leave them on the truck for a week, take a little romp in the woods, or whatever, I've got a second truck to do it in. My girlfriend's car is almost 20 years old, too. Should it decide to crap out, she can still get to work. When I bought my new Tacoma, the dealer offered me $200 for it on a trade, so really, I mean why bother? I can still squeeze another 10 years of work out of her, plus the new truck is a stick and the GF can't drive it, the S-10 is automatic and she can run it anywhere she wants to go without bothering me, therefore I have more time to fish. Same deal as someone else stated above, having a 4x4 around when the roads get bad isn't a bad thing. Before saying a word about insurance, either, ask your agent about a multiline discount. More often than not, adding an extra $1000 car with liability only coverage as a pleasure vehicle will either reduce your overall monthly payment or raise it by less than you carry in your change pocket.

[Further North]

I like the extra vehicle idea, it just doesn't work for us.

 

One question:

51 minutes ago, Lures'n'Liberty said:

I can still squeeze another 10 years of work out of her,

I hope that's the S-10 and not the girlfriend...

 

What I did for the "hauling stuff around" issue: 4' x 8'  utility trailer from Menard's for <$300  Annual maintenance = so close to zero it's not worth worrying about and if it lasts 4 years (it's already 8) I've saved $ on registration.

 

As a bonus, I built and attachment that converts it to a canoe/kayak hauler as needed so I don't have to muscle them up on the roof.

[Robeng]

Look at a Hyundai Santa Fe AWD.   Good gas mileage too.  

[Lures'n'Liberty]

6 hours ago, Further North said:

One question:

I hope that's the S-10 and not the girlfriend...

 

What I did for the "hauling stuff around" issue: 4' x 8'  utility trailer from Menard's for <$300  Annual maintenance = so close to zero it's not worth worrying about and if it lasts 4 years (it's already 8) I've saved $ on registration.

 

As a bonus, I built and attachment that converts it to a canoe/kayak hauler as needed so I don't have to muscle them up on the roof.

Both, LOL!!! Nah, really they're both great girls, girlfriend grew up with 500 head of dairy cattle on the family farm, so I've got more faith in her than the tired old Chevrolet!!

 

I'm looking at trailers myself, too, trying to figure out how to get her, 2 kids, bikes, quads, dirtbikes, kayaks, canoes, coolers, clothes, lumber, roofing materials, or whatever other crap that doesn't all fit in the 6 1/2 foot bed in my tacoma back and forth to camp. 

 

I wish the Menard's trailer was an option here in PA, (OK no Menard's here but Harbor Freight has about the same deal) but the hoops you have to jump through to get a box store trailer registered are flat out insane. Applying for titles, waiting on PennDOT, 2 enhanced inspections (that you must legally flatbed your trailer to and from because it's illegal to tow it) at a place an hour away, more waiting, and cost & fees nearly twice the cost of the $300 trailer in the first place, you're better off buying a bigger trailer from a dealer or a used one that's already registered. For a lot of people, a $1000 pickup is a good route to go.

[MrPeanut]

I tow a 16' boat with an Edge with the tow package, for me it was the ideal compromise btwn MPG and towing capability. I got it certified pre owned for not much north of 20k.  I avg 21-22 in general, while towing it's not horribly worse although I"ve never actually calculated it.

 

It can tow up to 3500, the major difference with that and the escape is its a bit bigger on the inside which makes it a bit more comfortable. I don't think it's much higher off the ground than the escape if I remember right, but when getting into comfort and ease of getting in, those are all preferences and everyone will have a different opinion for their own situation

[Further North]

46 minutes ago, Lures'n'Liberty said:

I wish the Menard's trailer was an option here in PA, (OK no Menard's here but Harbor Freight has about the same deal) but the hoops you have to jump through to get a box store trailer registered are flat out insane. Applying for titles, waiting on PennDOT, 2 enhanced inspections (that you must legally flatbed your trailer to and from because it's illegal to tow it) at a place an hour away, more waiting, and cost & fees nearly twice the cost of the $300 trailer in the first place, you're better off buying a bigger trailer from a dealer or a used one that's already registered. For a lot of people, a $1000 pickup is a good route to go.

That's nuts...we don't have to register trailers in WI <3,000 lbs. (Including the stuff you haul on it).

 

That utility trailer will never haul that much.

 

BTW, I was wrong - Not Menard's, Farm and Fleet.  I've got no idea why I typed Menard's...getting old's not for the faint of heart...

[Lures'n'Liberty]

7 minutes ago, Further North said:

That's nuts...we don't have to register trailers in WI <3,000 lbs. (Including the stuff you haul on it).

 

That utility trailer will never haul that much.

 

BTW, I was wrong - Not Menard's, Farm and Fleet.  I've got no idea why I typed Menard's...getting old's not for the faint of heart...

We're not allowed to talk politics on this site or I'd go on a rant about the Stolenwealth of Pennsylvania and how a License is actually a Liberty that the government steals and then sells back to you along with your constitutional right to free ingress and egress and how it's being violated, but I'd rather not have the admins boot me.

[Further North]

42 minutes ago, MrPeanut said:

I tow a 16' boat with an Edge with the tow package, for me it was the ideal compromise btwn MPG and towing capability. I got it certified pre owned for not much north of 20k.  I avg 21-22 in general, while towing it's not horribly worse although I"ve never actually calculated it.

 

It can tow up to 3500, the major difference with that and the escape is its a bit bigger on the inside which makes it a bit more comfortable. I don't think it's much higher off the ground than the escape if I remember right, but when getting into comfort and ease of getting in, those are all preferences and everyone will have a different opinion for their own situation

I like the Ford Edge a lot - we had a 2017 as a rental car for a week and a half earlier this year out in Arizona...put 2,700 miles on it...Had more back seat room than our Escape...and with the same motor (2.0 liter EcoBoost) got not far off in MPG.

 

I just checked...with the factory tow package, it'll handle 3,500 lbs with the 2.0 EcoBoost.  That may be a serious contender when my wife's Freestyle gives up the ghost...

[gim]

On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 10:19 AM, RPreeb said:

The 600 mile cruising range with a 36 gallon tank means that for a lot of my driving, even for weekend trips, I don't need to find gas while on the road. 

That's one of the best parts about my upgrade.  The Escape had a 15 gallon tank and I filled up twice a month during fishing season (or more).  With the truck and its massive 36 gallon tank, I fill up less than once per month.  In the winter I often go almost 2 whole months without buying any gasoline.

[jbmaine]

Hi All,

  Just an up date-- After looking at a couple of small SUV's, we decided a small vehicle wasn't really comfortable for us, so we started looking at mid size SUV's. After hitting just about every dealer within 75 miles we found a really good deal on a ford certified 2014 edge with 40,000 miles and a factory installed tow package. We've had it for a couple of days now and really like it.                                                                                                                                                                    thanks for all the advise and suggestions

                                                                             Jim

 

 

 

 

 

[Further North]

4 hours ago, jbmaine said:

Hi All,

  Just an up date-- After looking at a couple of small SUV's, we decided a small vehicle wasn't really comfortable for us, so we started looking at mid size SUV's. After hitting just about every dealer within 75 miles we found a really good deal on a ford certified 2014 edge with 40,000 miles and a factory installed tow package. We've had it for a couple of days now and really like it.                                                                                                                                                                    thanks for all the advise and suggestions

                                                                             Jim

 

 

 

 

 

Good choice - I think you'll like it.