Anti-reverse doesn't feel as solid when drag is loose. Is this normal?

[baitcastnewbie]

Hey guys, 

So I just bought my first baitcasting reel after having used spinning gear my entire life. I got a Lew's tournament mb, and have been playing around with it for the past couple days while i wait for my rod and line to be shipped. Having practically no experience with baitcasters, there's something I've noticed about the reel that concerns me: when i back off the drag, the anti-reverse becomes not as "instantaneous" as when the drag is tightened. That is, when I try to crank backwards, I notice a tiny bit of a jerk-back of the handle before it's completely stopped by the anti-reverse. This becomes less noticeable and eventually disappears as I tighten up the drag more and more. I wonder if this is a normal thing with baitcasters, or it's because I have got a faulty unit. Should I do something about this? 

Thanks!

[Angry John]

You may be moving the shaft position in the ar bearing a little or adding a little load to the bearing cage reducing a little of the free play.  I am not saying for certain but that would make the most sense.  There may be a little buildup on the shaft or a little to much oil that you can clean out with a q-tip to help it lock up better.

[DomQ]

My lews and quantum reels do that to when the drag is completely turned down where there in zero resistance. 

[baitcastnewbie]

5 minutes ago, Angry John said:

You may be moving the shaft position in the ar bearing a little or adding a little load to the bearing cage reducing a little of the free play.  I am not saying for certain but that would make the most sense.  There may be a little buildup on the shaft or a little to much oil that you can clean out with a q-tip to help it lock up better.

What do you mean by "adding a little load to the bearing cage reducing a little of the free play"? It's a new reel, so I don't think there should be any buildup on the shaft, unless by buildup you mean an excess of grease from the factory? Excuse my confusion, I'm just a completely unfamiliar with the baitcaster. In any case, thanks for your input.

6 minutes ago, DomQ said:

My lews and quantum reels do that to when the drag is completely turned down where there in zero resistance. 

Do you do anything about it? Does it affect your fishing in any way?

[Darren.]

Welcome aboard!

 

We've also got some reel repair guys on the forum, @J Francho,

and @Delaware Valley Tackle who'll chime in with thoughts.

[Angry John]

Yes the factory sometimes adds to much lubrication and in the case of the AR bearing it is oiled not greased.  If you clean the shaft off or use a q-tip to get some of the oil out of the bearing it may stop slipping.   The AR bearing in in line with the drag system and adding load to the drag compresses the AR bearing.

[JustinJ]

That is normal

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

See how it performs under normal fishing conditions. Exchange it if warranted. 

[baitcastnewbie]

Thanks so much guys. In regard to cleaning the AR bearing, well, it's my first bc reel so I'd rather not tear into it right away. Would it help to just use a q-tip to clean the "socket" where the shaft inserts into on the palming side? Is that where the AR bearing is? 

[DomQ]

They work amazing, all of my quantum reels have great drag systems, all work fantastic

2 hours ago, baitcastnewbie said:

Thanks so much guys. In regard to cleaning the AR bearing, well, it's my first bc reel so I'd rather not tear into it right away. Would it help to just use a q-tip to clean the "socket" where the shaft inserts into on the palming side? Is that where the AR bearing is? 

The bearing is ender the handle side plate, so if you look at the nut that holds your handle and star drag in place, its the thing holding the shaft that that nut screws onto in place (along with another ball bearing) but its right inside the side plate, you'll have to take the reel apart to get to it. Once you have your drag tightened up you shouldn't have any reverse play in the handle. If that's the case your fine, no need to open her up. If your interested I can Skype with you and walk you through the process. Whatever helps you buddy

[hawgenvy]

Just try it out on the water with normal drag, spool tension, and brake settings. It'll probably be fine.

[baitcastnewbie]

58 minutes ago, DomQ said:

They work amazing, all of my quantum reels have great drag systems, all work fantastic

The bearing is ender the handle side plate, so if you look at the nut that holds your handle and star drag in place, its the thing holding the shaft that that nut screws onto in place (along with another ball bearing) but its right inside the side plate, you'll have to take the reel apart to get to it. Once you have your drag tightened up you shouldn't have any reverse play in the handle. If that's the case your fine, no need to open her up. If your interested I can Skype with you and walk you through the process. Whatever helps you buddy

Thanks so much for offering to help with the reel. I think if need be I'm confident I can tear into the reel myself (I've done that with spinning reels, so I should be able to handle a baitcaster after doing some research). It's just that I won't be having my toolbox with me for the next couple of weeks (that and I'm lazy). 

 

Yea once I tighten up my drag the reverse play is reduced, and after a certain point it completely goes away. So according to you guys that's probably due to some excess oil in the shaft/AR bearing I guess? In that case I think I'll leave the reel as is and fish with it for a while. Then when it comes time to do maintenance I'll take the reel apart and give it a good cleanup. Would that be ok? Or would you recommend cleaning out the AR before fishing with the reel? 

 

[tholmes]

If the AR works fine under your normal drag setting, don't worry about it. You can remove the excess lube the next time you service the reel.

 

Tom

[MickD]

12 hours ago, baitcastnewbie said:

Thanks so much guys. In regard to cleaning the AR bearing, well, it's my first bc reel so I'd rather not tear into it right away. Would it help to just use a q-tip to clean the "socket" where the shaft inserts into on the palming side? Is that where the AR bearing is? 

The anti-reverse keeps the handles from moving when line is pulled from the spool.  I don't think it matters what it feels like when trying to reel backwards.  I don't reel backwards.  If it prevents the handles from moving backwards while fishing, the spool gives line freely when the thumb release is released, and it reels in freely, it's good to go.   Leave it alone and go fishing.

[DomQ]

9 hours ago, baitcastnewbie said:

Thanks so much for offering to help with the reel. I think if need be I'm confident I can tear into the reel myself (I've done that with spinning reels, so I should be able to handle a baitcaster after doing some research). It's just that I won't be having my toolbox with me for the next couple of weeks (that and I'm lazy). 

 

Yea once I tighten up my drag the reverse play is reduced, and after a certain point it completely goes away. So according to you guys that's probably due to some excess oil in the shaft/AR bearing I guess? In that case I think I'll leave the reel as is and fish with it for a while. Then when it comes time to do maintenance I'll take the reel apart and give it a good cleanup. Would that be ok? Or would you recommend cleaning out the AR before fishing with the reel? 

 

Fish it and if there's no issues your good to go buddy

[baitcastnewbie]

I guess that's settled then. You're all such a helpful, supportive group. I really appreciate all the replies!

[J Francho]

15 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

See how it performs under normal fishing conditions. Exchange it if warranted. 

That's my advice.  A fish or lure doesn't pull back on the handle, it pulls back on the spool.  If there's an issue there, then you can return/exchange it.

[MickD]

If what you mean by "taking it apart" means going way in, taking layers of parts off, I would not recommend it.  Reels are so complicated today that it is very easy to not get them back together again.  Leave that for an expert, like DVT or other pro reel servicer.  You should not have to do that anyway in the reel's first year.  When time, not yet-it is NEW, I recommend taking the side plates off and lube what you can reach.   A single drop should do for the bearings, spool shaft, wipe the surface of the weight contact drum with a little oil on the finger, a drop on any moving part, including the handle grips, and the part that dries and gets dirty the fastest, the level wind pawl and worm.  It probably won't be that dirty, exc maybe for the level wind pawl.  If you can see gears, get a little grease on them, or at least a drop or two of oil.  Some may have other opinions, but that is mine.

[Angry John]

I don't think  my daiwa baitcasters are all that complicated.  I only own one brand for that reason.  If you only have one brand almost everything is the same.  My alphas, zillions and steez are all basically the same.  The only reel part that sucks are the little c-clips and all reels seem to have them.  I started wrenching on the advantage htsl and still own my original two and they still work good.  Major brands are easy to get replacement parts for.  Most of us tear down our reel during the winer so if your stuck needing a part your not missing any water time.  Dont be afraid to go all in, just plan a good time.

[3crows]

I was fiddling with reels today in the store and noticed exactly what you are talking about with the Lews. My Shimanos do not do that so I noticed it right away, a spongy feeling. 

[baitcastnewbie]

43 minutes ago, 3crows said:

I was fiddling with reels today in the store and noticed exactly what you are talking about with the Lews. My Shimanos do not do that so I noticed it right away, a spongy feeling. 

Yea DomQ says his lews do that so that's probably a lews thing. It's also more noticeable without line on the reel, because with a full spool the line absorbs some of the jerkiness so that becomes less obvious.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The Shimano uses a key washer where as lews , abu rely solely on the fit of the AR sleeve to the shaft. There's always some give there and I'm guessing the pressure of the drag star pressing on the sleeve is what you're seeing. 

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

I know the back play you are mentioning while the drag is loose. My Lews does it my Tatula does it and all my shimanos do it. The  Daiwa SV105 & T3 dont do it. Tighten the drag about one turn and the handle back play goes away.

[baitcastnewbie]

22 hours ago, QUAKEnSHAKE said:

I know the back play you are mentioning while the drag is loose. My Lews does it my Tatula does it and all my shimanos do it. The  Daiwa SV105 & T3 dont do it. Tighten the drag about one turn and the handle back play goes away.

Looks like it's a common occurrence. I wonder why there hadn't been any threads about this until I brought it up.